Question The new threadrippers 7980X and 7970X

[iamgenius]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7980X & 7970X Review: Revived HEDT Brings More Cores of Zen 4

www.anandtech.com

I don't see a thread about them so let's talk here. So they are not as impressive as they once were. And you can't really treat them as "do it all" chips. They can game but not enough emphasis was put for gaming this time. The mainstream chips are already too powerful and so much less expensive it is becoming hard to justify the cost of the non-pro threadrippers. Motherboards are >1000 $ ??? That's too much. You only have 1 DIMM per memory channel and less than usual lanes. Maybe the next generation of mainstream chips will have have 32 cores so these threadrippers will be even less justifiable.

I still haven't seen extreme overclocking reviews (Still early) for these threadrippers. Do you think we can get a meaningful overclock with good watercooling with these chips? I really hope so. We will see as they mature. Sometimes I dream about having a good overclock with a threadripper system!!

 

[tamz_msc]

If all you want is more PCIe lanes, Xeon w2400 boards are around $700-800, with an upcoming refresh that bumps core count by 2 at each tier.

 

[StefanR5R]

So they are not as impressive as they once were.

They are at least as impressive as they ever were... before prices are factored in.*

They can game but not enough emphasis was put for gaming this time.

That's been the same for all Threadripper generations, and a platform constraint. For most existing games, you need to eliminate inter-CCX communications and perhaps also eliminate Window's shortcomings with SMT. There is a straightforward BIOS toggle for just this: "Gaming mode" switches all but two CCXs off, as well as SMT. (Instead of this brute force approach, you could as well tell Windows how to schedule the threads of the game. As long as neither Windows nor the game engine developers are able and willing to do this for you.)

I still haven't seen extreme overclocking reviews

Hardwareluxx performed a few tests at 150, 250, 350 (default), 450, and 500 W power limit. Edit: LTT has some data with PBO enabled. Edit 2: Derbauer demonstrates per-CCD overclocking at a level of circa 500 W socket power, with a simple AIO cooler. (None of this is extreme in the narrower sense, because the effort for these overclocks was low. Though the results from these "lazy" overclocks might be considered extreme by some.)

I haven't looked at most of the other reviews yet, but the few others which I have seen tested only at stock. I assume they had very little time, and the fact that the review kit was only temporarily lent to them must have put further constraints on their testing.

THG and LTT reported on AMD's own overclocking tests. Edit: Or were these ASUS's overclocking tests?

Several reviewers tested with a straightforward memory overclock by means of the EXPO values which came with the memory in the review kit.

________
*) Edit 2: Although even with prices factored in, some might be impressed nevertheless, rightfully. The individual perspective and requirements matter.

 

[iamgenius]

If all you want is more PCIe lanes, Xeon w2400 boards are around $700-800, with an upcoming refresh that bumps core count by 2 at each tier.

I'm more into AMD now. I want a threadripper.

 

[iamgenius]

They are at least as impressive as they ever were... before prices are factored in.*


That's been the same for all Threadripper generations, and a platform constraint. For most existing games, you need to eliminate inter-CCX communications and perhaps also eliminate Window's shortcomings with SMT. There is a straightforward BIOS toggle for just this: "Gaming mode" switches all but two CCXs off, as well as SMT. (Instead of this brute force approach, you could as well tell Windows how to schedule the threads of the game. As long as neither Windows nor the game engine developers are able and willing to do this for you.)


Hardwareluxx performed a few tests at 150, 250, 350 (default), 450, and 500 W power limit. Edit: LTT has some data with PBO enabled. Edit 2: Derbauer demonstrates per-CCD overclocking at a level of circa 500 W socket power, with a simple AIO cooler. (None of this is extreme in the narrower sense, because the effort for these overclocks was low. Though the results from these "lazy" overclocks might be considered extreme by some.)

I haven't looked at most of the other reviews yet, but the few others which I have seen tested only at stock. I assume they had very little time, and the fact that the review kit was only temporarily lent to them must have put further constraints on their testing.

THG and LTT reported on AMD's own overclocking tests. Edit: Or were these ASUS's overclocking tests?

Several reviewers tested with a straightforward memory overclock by means of the EXPO values which came with the memory in the review kit.

________
*) Edit 2: Although even with prices factored in, some might be impressed nevertheless, rightfully. The individual perspective and requirements matter.

If these threadrippers end up to be good overclockers, I will certainly buy one of them. I don't game as much as before so that's shouldn't really be a problem. I want the threadrippers power to run several VMs at the same time.

 

[Markfw]

If these threadrippers end up to be good overclockers, I will certainly buy one of them. I don't game as much as before so that's shouldn't really be a problem. I want the threadrippers power to run several VMs at the same time.

See the Zen 4 /Genoa thread. I don't have time to look now to link it, but they have a 79995WX doing the world record on cinebench ON AIR COOLING. Then they beat it on LN2 same CPU.

 

[StefanR5R]

See the Zen 4 /Genoa thread. I don't have time to look now to link it, but they have a 79995WX doing the world record on cinebench ON AIR COOLING. Then they beat it on LN2 same CPU.

From 'Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)': air, water, LN2

If these threadrippers end up to be good overclockers,

From the very few published reports so far, it looks like the cores overclock very similar to Ryzen 9 7950X's. If you want all-core loads at overclock, consider that a 7970X will (obviously) pull power just like two likewise overclocked 7950Xs would do, and a 7980X like four 7950Xs. Size your PSU and your cooling solution accordingly. — I have been fooling around with a limited set of all-core loads on the 64-core EPYC Genoa lately, both at its default PPT of 360 W and its max PPT of 400 W, and from this it has become apparent that some lighter all-core workloads quickly approach this EPYC's max boost clock of 3.75 GHz, whereas more workloads, especially with all SMT threads in use, will not go quite as near to these 3.75 GHz at these Wattages. So if you wanted to go beyond this level of clocks on a 64-core Threadripper, the first thing you will need to take into account are the power input and power dissipation. After that, Voltages and such might become your concern, but that should be very similar to overclocking a 7950X.

As for the cooling solution, I suspect you can simply take SP3/ TR4 waterblocks. According to Noctua, SP6 and sTR5 coolers require somewhat more mounting pressure than SP3/TR4 coolers. But I am not sure if this is very relevant for waterblocks, compared to air coolers.

As for memory overclocking: There you will be limited by the available reg-ECC RAM options.

Given that not much difference to Ryzen is to be expected when it comes to the details of overclocking, apart from that you basically have two or four Ryzens sitting in a single (but larger) socket, this means on the other hand that if overclocking interests you much more than how many cores you can get in a single system, then Threadripper with its much higher cost might not be that interesting to you compared to a Ryzen.

Also keep in mind that the next generation of Ryzens is supposed to be just a few months away, whereas the Threadripper roadmap is completely in the dark, including motherboard compatibility or socket compatibility. The only thing which is safe to assume is that the next Threadripper generation will lag a lot behind the next Ryzen generation.

 

[StefanR5R]

Regarding the power input:

ASRock TRX50 WS:

There is one 24-pin ATX, two 8-pin EPS, two 6-pin PCIe power connectors for the CPU, and another 6-pin PCIe connector for periphery. There is a 24-pin adapter cable in the box which allows you to add a secondary PSU; this adapter just routes the power-on signal from the motherboard to the second PSU.​

Asus Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI:

There are two 24-pin ATX connectors, allowing you to attach one or two PSUs, two 8-pin EPS, two 8-pin PCIe power connectors for the CPU, plus another 8- and a 6-pin PCIe power connector presumably for periphery.​

The familiar two 8-pin EPS12V connectors would be good for somewhat north of 650 Watts for the CPU AFAIK, and for more you ought to use those extra PCIE power connectors.

 

[iamgenius]

From 'Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)': air, water, LN2


From the very few published reports so far, it looks like the cores overclock very similar to Ryzen 9 7950X's. If you want all-core loads at overclock, consider that a 7970X will (obviously) pull power just like two likewise overclocked 7950Xs would do, and a 7980X like four 7950Xs. Size your PSU and your cooling solution accordingly. — I have been fooling around with a limited set of all-core loads on the 64-core EPYC Genoa lately, both at its default PPT of 360 W and its max PPT of 400 W, and from this it has become apparent that some lighter all-core workloads quickly approach this EPYC's max boost clock of 3.75 GHz, whereas more workloads, especially with all SMT threads in use, will not go quite as near to these 3.75 GHz at these Wattages. So if you wanted to go beyond this level of clocks on a 64-core Threadripper, the first thing you will need to take into account are the power input and power dissipation. After that, Voltages and such might become your concern, but that should be very similar to overclocking a 7950X.

As for the cooling solution, I suspect you can simply take SP3/ TR4 waterblocks. According to Noctua, SP6 and sTR5 coolers require somewhat more mounting pressure than SP3/TR4 coolers. But I am not sure if this is very relevant for waterblocks, compared to air coolers.

As for memory overclocking: There you will be limited by the available reg-ECC RAM options.

Given that not much difference to Ryzen is to be expected when it comes to the details of overclocking, apart from that you basically have two or four Ryzens sitting in a single (but larger) socket, this means on the other hand that if overclocking interests you much more than how many cores you can get in a single system, then Threadripper with its much higher cost might not be that interesting to you compared to a Ryzen.

Also keep in mind that the next generation of Ryzens is supposed to be just a few months away, whereas the Threadripper roadmap is completely in the dark, including motherboard compatibility or socket compatibility. The only thing which is safe to assume is that the next Threadripper generation will lag a lot behind the next Ryzen generation.

I want to get the 7970X which is 32-core. I understand your point about Ryzen, but I want cores. Maybe next generation ryzen will have 32 cores? Who knows?

And I see what you are saying about power. This will draw power like crazy when overclocked.

Regarding the power input:

ASRock TRX50 WS:

There is one 24-pin ATX, two 8-pin EPS, two 6-pin PCIe power connectors for the CPU, and another 6-pin PCIe connector for periphery. There is a 24-pin adapter cable in the box which allows you to add a secondary PSU; this adapter just routes the power-on signal from the motherboard to the second PSU.​

Asus Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI:

There are two 24-pin ATX connectors, allowing you to attach one or two PSUs, two 8-pin EPS, two 8-pin PCIe power connectors for the CPU, plus another 8- and a 6-pin PCIe power connector presumably for periphery.​

The familiar two 8-pin EPS12V connectors would be good for somewhat north of 650 Watts for the CPU AFAIK, and for more you ought to use those extra PCIE power connectors.

I see. So you use more than one power supply to feed one motherboard. So there are pc cases that can take two PSU's?

But maybe a power supply of 1600 or 2000 watts is enough for overclocking a 7970X?

 

[Abwx]

I want to get the 7970X which is 32-core. I understand your point about Ryzen, but I want cores. Maybe next generation ryzen will have 32 cores? Who knows?

And I see what you are saying about power. This will draw power like crazy when overclocked.

With a 32C there s 9W/core available at stock settings, that s way enough since a 142W set 7950X, wich amount to about 8W/core, perform at 94% of its stock TDP.

A 64C will have to be content with 4.5W/core, so the 350W TDP is a limiting factor here but at the other end it will scale comfortably with overclocking until it hits 9W/core like its 32C sibling, the latter is more relevant for 350W TDP as well as for price/perf.

 

[StefanR5R]

Maybe next generation ryzen will have 32 cores?

Allegedly not.

So you use more than one power supply to feed one motherboard.

Optionally of course. It's obviously a question of whether you can meet the power demand of the overall system and have all the necessary cable connections.

So there are pc cases that can take two PSU's?

Cooler Master MasterFrame 700, Corsair Obsidian 1000D*, Cougar Gemini X*, Lian Li O11/ V3000*/ PC-V3000, Nanoxia Dual System, Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2/ Enthoo 719/ Enthoo Primo/ Enthoo Elite, Raijintek Enyo/ Eris Evo, SilverStone Alta F2, Thermaltake Core X71

*) 2nd PSU can only be SFX

But maybe a power supply of 1600 or 2000 watts is enough for overclocking a 7970X?

The dual PSU option on the mentioned mainboards is probably there for the LN2 crowd, for overclocked 96- and 64-core Threadrippers, or if somebody puts more than one high-power GPU into the system (for computing).

 

[In2Photos]

Watch Der8auer's video. He gets into the OC capabilities of the 64 core unit. He also talks about the dual PSU connections and uses a meter to show the power usage, up to 1500W!! He also demonstrates gaming capabilities and compares the results with other current gen CPUs.

 

[Hans Gruber]

They cost way too much.

 

[iamgenius]

Allegedly not.


Optionally of course. It's obviously a question of whether you can meet the power demand of the overall system and have all the necessary cable connections.


Cooler Master MasterFrame 700, Corsair Obsidian 1000D*, Cougar Gemini X*, Lian Li O11/ V3000*/ PC-V3000, Nanoxia Dual System, Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2/ Enthoo 719/ Enthoo Primo/ Enthoo Elite, Raijintek Enyo/ Eris Evo, SilverStone Alta F2, Thermaltake Core X71

*) 2nd PSU can only be SFX


The dual PSU option on the mentioned mainboards is probably there for the LN2 crowd, for overclocked 96- and 64-core Threadrippers, or if somebody puts more than one high-power GPU into the system (for computing).

So maybe I can manage with one huge PSU if I only use air/water cooling and one video card. I don't want my case to be huge. For motherboards with 2 24-pin connectors, you don't have to connect both of them, right?

 

[iamgenius]

Watch Der8auer's video. He gets into the OC capabilities of the 64 core unit. He also talks about the dual PSU connections and uses a meter to show the power usage, up to 1500W!! He also demonstrates gaming capabilities and compares the results with other current gen CPUs.

Okay, will check it out. Thanks.

 

[StefanR5R]

For motherboards with 2 24-pin connectors, you don't have to connect both of them, right?

Correct, this is optional. You do need to populate some or all of the other power connectors, but for them it doesn't matter if they come from one or two (or three) PSUs.

Asus's motherboard manual isn't out yet. ASRock's manual says: "Plug the Multi PSU Adaptor Cable that comes with the package to ATX_CON1 if you use a secondary PSU." [Bolding is mine.] "It is required to connect both ATX12V1 and ATX12V2; otherwise, the system may not boot up properly. It is required to connect all 8 pin and 6 pin 12V Power Connectors when overclocking. It is required to connect a 6 pin PCIE 12V power cable to GFX_12V1; otherwise, the system may not boot up properly."

I think ATX12V1 and ATX12V2 on their own, i.e. 2x 8-pin EPS, are sufficient for about 650 W CPU socket power.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

They cost way too much.

You are a little sparse WRT context.

 

[iamgenius]

With a 32C there s 9W/core available at stock settings, that s way enough since a 142W set 7950X, wich amount to about 8W/core, perform at 94% of its stock TDP.

A 64C will have to be content with 4.5W/core, so the 350W TDP is a limiting factor here but at the other end it will scale comfortably with overclocking until it hits 9W/core like its 32C sibling, the latter is more relevant for 350W TDP as well as for price/perf.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Why is it 9 watts per core for the 32-core and 4.5 watts per core for the 64-core?

 

[Abwx]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Why is it 9 watts per core for the 32-core and 4.5 watts per core for the 64-core?

Because the TDP is 350W for both the 32C and 64C SKUs, i m of course talking of the stock settings, at full throughput the IOD will take 50-70W and the rest will be distributed to the cores, that makes 280-300W left to feed the cores.

 

[iamgenius]

Because the TDP is 350W for both the 32C and 64C SKUs, i m of course talking of the stock settings, at full throughput the IOD will take 50-70W and the rest will be distributed to the cores, that makes 280-300W left to feed the cores.

You didn't mention the 50-70 watts taken by IOD or whatever it is which got me confused. Now it is clear. Thanks.

 

[iamgenius]

One more question. This is more of an electrical question but let's just do it. If I do this, I should only be the 220v /13 amps circuit just to power the ~2000 watts PSU, and nothing else because I'll be using most of its juice, right? 220v multiplied by 13 is 2860 watts but still I'm too close to the maximum.

 

[iamgenius]

I'm looking at these 2000watts power supplies:

Cooler Master M2000 Platinum

The M2000 Platinum was built for those who need raw, highly efficiency power in massive amounts. Built with specialty projects in mind, this power supply unit is the biggest Cooler Master has to offer at a whopping 2000 watts. This is not a feature heavy unit built for gaming or content...

www.coolermaster.com

https://www.silverstonetek.com/en/product/info/power-supplies/HELA2050Platinum/

Their reviews:

Silverstone HELA 2050 W Review - World's Strongest PSU

The HELA 2050 has enough output power to start a truck and comes with a 12-pin PCIe connector for support of the next-generation graphics cards releasing in 2022. Currently, it is the strongest desktop PSU money can buy, and build quality is also topnotch. However, it is priced accordingly.

www.techpowerup.com

Cooler Master M2000 Platinum 2000 W Review

There are very few desktop PSUs with 2 kW or more maximum power output. The Cooler Master M2000 Platinum is one. While a good performer and very efficient at even full load, it is very expensive, only has 200–240 V input, and isn't ATX v3.0 ready.

www.techpowerup.com

Oh God they are massive!!! I'm getting pumped myself when reading about them.

 

[iamgenius]

I can see in der8auer's video that in the most demanding moment (Extreme OC with LN), the 7980X drew ~900 watts itself. The 7970X should draw considerably less specially that I'm only going to use water cooling and perform less extreme OC. A 2000 watt PSU should be more than enough to power a 7970X system intended to be overclocked. My modest conclusion.

Where in the video does it show using 2 PSU's?

 

[StefanR5R]

Where in the video does it show using 2 PSU's?

At several points you can see that two 1200 W PSUs were standing on the table. Though several parts of the footage show that only one of the two 24-pin ATX connectors of the mainboard was populated initially. But for example from 16:20 on, both 24-pin connectors had cables plugged in.

 

[aigomorla]

Quote from Steve from GN

Please do not get these if your primary focus is on gaming. PLEASE

LOLOL....

However what if primary is PCI-E lanes and secondary overclocking, and third Gaming?

The only thing holding me back from getting one right now, is probably the board selection, as there is no real board that i like at the moment.

But paying a bit more for marginal gaming performance and having double the PCI-E Gen5 Lanes along with 8 channel DDR5 support, also makes it hard to ignore the W5-3435X, unless i really wanted those more efficient cores, which if you look down my list, doesn't show up until you probably go to like point 5 or 6.

So i am still in Limbo on what my next HEDT will be.

If all you want is more PCIe lanes, Xeon w2400 boards are around $700-800, with an upcoming refresh that bumps core count by 2 at each tier.

W5-3435X with 8 channel DDR5 + 128 PCI-E Gen5 goes for around $1500 if you can find them at non scalper prices.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-xeon-w5-3435x-lga-4677/p/N82E16819118452

I think this is the sweet spot for Intel HEDT competition with Thread Ripper.
Not the 2400 line where its sort of gimped compared to the 3400 series.
The 2400 series has no real chance against the 7000 series.
Its a no brainer IMO, unless you absolutely really need those PCI-E lanes, which you don't even have as many compared to the 3400 series.
But if your that much in a budget / debt, then you should be getting last gen's EYPC IMO, and not a HEDT period.

One more question. This is more of an electrical question but let's just do it. If I do this, I should only be the 220v /13 amps circuit just to power the ~2000 watts PSU, and nothing else because I'll be using most of its juice, right? 220v multiplied by 13 is 2860 watts but still I'm too close to the maximum.

Are you in the US or EU?
Because in the US, its 240V, for a L1+L2 combine.
And yes your math is correct. You get double the wattage at half the amperage with double the voltage.

I really don't recommend you doing a 240V dedicated for PC's unless your ASIC farming, or its next to a garage where you have your EV charger port at.

Wiring codes, and permits are a PITFA, unless you do it illegally, and 240V is not really something you want to mess with unless your a liscensed electrictian.

But if your EU, where nothing is 120v, then yea, im all in for 240V PSU's as they use half the amperage, and also more efficient because of it.

I can see in der8auer's video that in the most demanding moment (Extreme OC with LN), the 7980X drew ~900 watts itself. The 7970X should draw considerably less specially that I'm only going to use water cooling and perform less extreme OC. A 2000 watt PSU should be more than enough to power a 7970X system intended to be overclocked. My modest conclusion.

Note im hearing from sources, that if you overclock a threadripper, you fuse a register, which shows you overclocked it, and void all forms of warrenty on the CPU.

This does not sit well with me, which is why im also waiting, to see if these guys will melt a hole though the motherboard like the 7000X3D series did.

9 New Things About Overclocking Ryzen Threadripper 7000 - SkatterBencher

Here are 9 things you need to know before overclocking the Ryzen Threadripper 7000 "Storm Peak" processors.

skatterbencher.com

Accepting this message will permanently fuse a register on the CPU that marks the CPU as used for overclocking. To what extent AMD will refuse warranty claims on such CPUs is unknown.

 

[iamgenius]

At several points you can see that two 1200 W PSUs were standing on the table. Though several parts of the footage show that only one of the two 24-pin ATX connectors of the mainboard was populated initially. But for example from 16:20 on, both 24-pin connectors had cables plugged in.

Just to be sure, so sometimes you will have to connect both 24-pin connectors to the motherboard, and sometimes not depending on the motherboard manual and what it says. If you are going to get a motherboard that requires the two 24-pin connectors to be connected, then you will either have to use two power supplies or use one power supply that comes with two 24-pin connectors, right?

I mean, it depends on the motherboard how it provides power to the threadripper being overclocked.