The Next Frontier in Social Justice: Fattitude

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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
Don't blame other people for it. Don't say that society makes you act a certain way.


Society does have a lot of impact on people's life habits though.
The portion sizes and drive everywhere culture being prime examples.

Of course it's you that's ultimately responsible for what happens to you but society can and does make people act in certain ways.

That's not to say that the "fatistas" or whatever they are calling themselves at the moment aren't a bunch of responsibility dodging cake munchers.
 

88keys

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,854
12
81
Exercising and losing weight do work, but I think there are a variety of other factors that determine a person's state of physical fitness.

One thing to point out is that if you look at long term weight loss (5+ years), the success rate is abysmally low. Infact the most successful method weight in the long term is gastric bypass (or similar) surgeries; and even then, the rate of success is around 25%.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
The glorification of failure & weakness that is "fat acceptance" makes me sick. When did we as a country decide that it's better to idealize failure and "good enough" instead of success? Do you think our society today could dream the impossible and put men on the moon? Or would someone say we were "space shaming" the other nations?

LMAO
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
I've been waiting for some time for lawyers to discover fast food the same way they discovered big tobacco. Talk about a cash-cow. There's an entire industry waiting to get started based on fat people suing fast food conglomerates for making them fat.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I've been waiting for some time for lawyers to discover fast food the same way they discovered big tobacco. Talk about a cash-cow. There's an entire industry waiting to get started based on fat people suing fast food conglomerates for making them fat.

The same lawyers that took down big tobacco have been circling the food industry for years. It's covered in some detail in the book Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us. It's an interesting book that delves into the "food science" of creating foods that create the most enjoyment for the customer. The kings of the industry aren't chefs or bakers or nutritionists, but mathematicians, engineers and economists who minimize the cost of processed food while maximizing the "bliss point."
 

Joepublic2

Golden Member
Jan 22, 2005
1,114
6
76
So gays deserve HIV because that's the choice they make?

So those with Thyroid disease are at fault, gotcha.

This. I read a lot of science and health stuff, and there have been a lot of fascinating articles about obesity over the last few years. It's not nearly as simple as the sanctimonious bigots want it to be.

For example, one study found that it's not just Americans who are fatter. Indeed, it's not even just people who've become fatter. It's also lab animals, many different species, that have become heavier over the decades, even when controlling for diet and exercise. They don't yet know why but speculate it may be certain food additives or the effects of artificial lighting.

I've also seen several articles discussing a link between gut bacteria and obesity. One study found that if they transferred gut bacteria from fat mice into thin mice, the thin mice started gaining weight, even though their diet and exercise remained the same. Other studies found people would often spontaneously start losing weight after procedures that substantially changed their gut bacteria.

Finally, I read that the extremely obese are metabolically different from those who merely carry a few extra pounds (like Mursilis). Diet and exercise works great for those with a few extra pounds. For the extremely obese, however, it works temporarily at best. Less than 1% of the extremely obese succeed with diet and exercise over the long term (either 3 years or 5 years, don't remember). From a medical perspective, such a complete failure rate would normally completely discredit the treatment, yet even many medical professionals cling to their old prejudices.

The bottom line is that while diet and exercise are always a great starting point, the problem with obesity is far more complex than that. Especially for the extremely obese, other treatments are necessary.


On a side note, it's interesting to note how this issue unites ignorant people across the political spectrum. Even the most die hard lefties who denounce bigotry based on ethnicity, color, or sexual preference, are happy to jump on board with smug, anti-fat bigotry. Educate yourselves, gentlemen. It's the best cure for bigotry.

Lol look at all the blimpouts in this thread.
 
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Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
First, let me say this is a remarkably stupid thread, even by P&N standards. A random Kickstarter campaign to showcase one person's opinion? Fecking hell, if I put up a thread every time someone had an agenda that wanted attention it would never end. What makes this either politics or news?

Lol look at all the blimpouts in this thread.

On that note, tempting I'm sure another round of your clearly lightning wit, are you of the impression that obesity is a simple issue that is easily resolved on both an individual and societal level despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Your posts seem to lend that impression but I have trouble believing someone with your clear intelligence and insight would make posts that demonstrate startling ignorance of science and medicine.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Everyone needs and wants a sense of belonging and belittling and bullying other people fulfills that vacuum in their pitiful life.

Where you all wannabe bullies in school?
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
Everyone needs and wants a sense of belonging and belittling and bullying other people fulfills that vacuum in their pitiful life.

Where you all wannabe bullies in school?

Sure, I was just hoping to get clarification on their position. Earlier, Nebor in particular seemed particularly proud of having lost weight and spoke of those who haven't as weak failures. If strength is of such importance, are they of the opinion that having to meet their personal needs to feel empowered and belonging through insulting those they perceive as weak failures shows their own strength?

I salute his achievements in weigh loss, though, and do hope he meets his struggles with his social disorders with equal vigor and success.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
96
86
fat people are a bunch of loser assholes. stop shoving so much god damn food down your fat gullett.
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
fat people are a bunch of loser assholes. stop shoving so much god damn food down your fat gullett.

Well said.

Also, in case you were worried, there is no better way to prove you aren't a loser asshole than making unprovoked insults to strangers on the internet (asshole) and thereby implying that there is nothing better you could be doing with that time (loser).
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
A random Kickstarter campaign to showcase one person's opinion?

On that note, tempting I'm sure another round of your clearly lightning wit, are you of the impression that obesity is a simple issue that is easily resolved on both an individual and societal level despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

The 'fat acceptance' movement isn't just one person's opinion, there seems to be a growing body (pun not intended) of self harmers that are at least pretending to deny reality.

Obesity is a simple issue, it's not like we don't know what causes it. It's only made complex by blaming people who aren't involved (no one gets super morbid obese without help) and trying to generate revenue on the basis that culinary indulgences should be subject to sin taxes.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
The 'fat acceptance' movement isn't just one person's opinion, there seems to be a growing body (pun not intended) of self harmers that are at least pretending to deny reality.

Obesity is a simple issue, it's not like we don't know what causes it. It's only made complex by blaming people who aren't involved (no one gets super morbid obese without help) and trying to generate revenue on the basis that culinary indulgences should be subject to sin taxes.

Who let you join?
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
The 'fat acceptance' movement isn't just one person's opinion, there seems to be a growing body (pun not intended) of self harmers that are at least pretending to deny reality.

Obesity is a simple issue, it's not like we don't know what causes it. It's only made complex by blaming people who aren't involved (no one gets super morbid obese without help) and trying to generate revenue on the basis that culinary indulgences should be subject to sin taxes.

As was pointed out earlier in the thread, it isn't that simple. Do the overweight people bear some responsibility for their condition? Without question. Do the health implications of obesity pose a serious health hazard and a strain on the medical system? Absolutely.

But.

That is only a portion of the story. Is healthy food more expensive? Do the chemists and engineers that design food to be as addictive as possible bear any responsibility for the overindulgence? Do different bacterial colonies in the digestive system change how food is digested and absorbed by the body leading to different body types? Is good quality food universally available and do people on the whole have the skills to take advantage of it? Do environmental and cultural conditions encourage weight gain or make weight loss more difficult?

These are but the start to a list of questions that need answering if we are to fully understand the issue. You act like it is cut and dried, that more food is more weight but it is well known that some people can overeat as much as they want and never gain a pound while in others even mild overindulgence can cause rapid weight gain. The issue is more complicated than you are giving it credit for.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
These are but the start to a list of questions that need answering if we are to fully understand the issue. You act like it is cut and dried, that more food is more weight but it is well known that some people can overeat as much as they want and never gain a pound while in others even mild overindulgence can cause rapid weight gain. The issue is more complicated than you are giving it credit for.

Some bodies achieve homeostasis at greater weights or bmis (as useless a metric as there ever was) than others. While I do generally subscribe to the calorie economy I'm aware of other research that implicates insulin and other hormones effect on weight gain. More research is warranted in this respect.

I find it difficult to believe that people achieve adulthood thinking that chronic, obviously terrible food choices are not going to impact their health. There's a reason that we have labels on all of our food. If people cannot effectively use the data that has been provided to them then we need to have a long very critical talk about our school system. If food "addiction" is a severe problem then perhaps fat people need to be demonized like smokers are.

Somehow people are creating excuses for why they aren't responsible for their condition. For reasons beyond mortal comprehension, other people are accepting these excuses. Now that social justice is involved, I'm sure it's systems of oppression that make people fat and powerless to become healthy.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
The super-big gulp is 1.2 liters it doesn't take a genius to figure out why the diabetes belt is the diabetes belt considering what fructose does to your insulin sensitivity in large quantities.

The juice aisle is stocked to the brim with drinks that have 47g of sugar per serving, mostly fructose.

For those that eat well, even most breads have HFCS, 2 grams or so.

The average person in the US drinks 45 gallons of soda per year.

http://gizmodo.com/5815818/the-average-american-drinks-45-gallons-of-soda-a-year

That is 5760 ounces or 15 oz per day, every day for a year. There are many people like me who know better than to drink much soda, all the health nuts. So there are a number of people out there working double time to keep those averages up. I'm surprised there isn't even more obesity honestly.

You guys can whine about your metabolism all you want but I'm not going to be the one huffing and puffing up the stairs, if you even take the stairs.
 
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Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
Some bodies achieve homeostasis at greater weights or bmis (as useless a metric as there ever was) than others. While I do generally subscribe to the calorie economy I'm aware of other research that implicates insulin and other hormones effect on weight gain. More research is warranted in this respect.
Then we are in agreement here.
I find it difficult to believe that people achieve adulthood thinking that chronic, obviously terrible food choices are not going to impact their health. There's a reason that we have labels on all of our food. If people cannot effectively use the data that has been provided to them then we need to have a long very critical talk about our school system.
Which gets you part way home. On the other hand, some foods are healthy or not by preparation, such as fried chicken vs. grilled. Sometimes it isn't the type of food but the quantity, the portions you are raised with seeming normal.

What is more, the way food is packaged often makes it very difficult to determine what a serving is while consuming it. I have next to me at this very moment a package of butter toffee sunflower kernels, which are quite good by the way, and I am told from looking at the package which does not reseal or lend itself to storage in any way that one serving size is 1/3 of a cup or 1/6 of the package. While intellectually I can use that information, it is more challenging in practice short of getting out a measuring cup each and every time I wish to have a snack without overindulging.

20 oz bottles of soda have long been considered two servings even though they have been treated as one by almost everyone who consumes them. To reemphasize, it is frequently not what you eat but in what quantity.

If food "addiction" is a severe problem then perhaps fat people need to be demonized like smokers are.
Because demonizing drug addicts certainly ended the drug problem in the US.
Somehow people are creating excuses for why they aren't responsible for their condition. For reasons beyond mortal comprehension, other people are accepting these excuses. Now that social justice is involved, I'm sure it's systems of oppression that make people fat and powerless to become healthy.

Another poster in this thread made a great analogy on this point. This line of argumentation is akin to saying that the solution to poverty is for poor people to get a job or for the homeless to buy houses or for crime for people to stop doing bad things. Nobody is denying that for the most part those who suffer from obesity have no small amount of responsibility for their condition. However, that is only a partial answer and if you ignore what causes people to make the poor decisions to begin with you are not going to be able to effectively address the problem.
 
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