errornious [sic] and destructive doctrines and teachings including Bill Gothard's." [/quote]http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090921/blumenthal
A few miles down the road from Colorado Springs [a home to James Dobson's Focus on the Family], in the quiet bedroom community of Eldredge, a deeply disturbed young man named Matthew Murray followed the unfolding debacle at New Life Church [once under the stewardship of Pastor Ted Haggard] with an interest that bordered on obsession. Murray, a sallow-faced, bespectacled 24-year-old, had been indelibly scarred by a lifetime of psychological abuse at the hands of his charismatic Pentecostal parents. Murray's mind became crowded with thoughts of death, destruction, and the killings he would soon carry out in the name of avenging what he called his "nightmare of Christianity."
On an online chat room for former Pentecostals, Murray heaped contempt on his mother, Loretta, a physical therapist who homeschooled him to ensure that his contact with the outside world was severely limited. "My 'mother,'" Murray wrote, "is just a brainswashed [sic] church agent cun,t [sic]. The only reason she had me was because she wanted a body/soul she could train into being the next Billy Graham..."
He went on:
...my mother was into all the charismatic "fanatical evangelical" insanity. Her and her church believed that Satan and demons were everywhere in everything. The rules were VERY strict all the time. We couldn't have ANY christian or non-christian music at all except for a few charismatic worship CDs. There was physical abuse in my home. My mother although used psychotropic drugs because she somehow thought it would make it easier to control me (I've never been diagnosed with any mental illness either). Pastors would always come and interrogate me over video games or TV watching or other things. There were NO FRIENDS outside the church and family and even then only family members who were in the church. You could not trust anyone at all because anyone might be a spy.
An authoritarian Christian-right self-help guru named Bill Gothard created the home-schooling regimen implemented by Murray's parents. Like his ally James Dobson, Gothard first grew popular during the 1960s by marketing his program to worried evangelical parents as anti-hippie insurance for adolescent children. Based on the theocratic teachings of R. J. Rushdoony, who devised Christian schools and home-schooling as the foundation of his Dominionist empire, Gothard's Basic Life Principles outlined an all-consuming environment that followers could embrace for the whole of their lives. According to Ron Henzel, a one-time Gothard follower who co-authored a devastating exposé about his former guru called A Matter of Basic Principles, under the rules, "large homeschooling families abstain from television, midwives are more important than doctors, traditional dating is forbidden, unmarried adults are 'under the authority of their parents' and live with them, divorced people can't remarry under any circumstance, and music has hardly changed at all since the late nineteenth century."
At the Charter School for Excellence, a school in South Florida inspired by Gothard's draconian principles that receives $800,000 in state funds each year, children are indoctrinated into a culture of absolute submission to authority almost as soon as they learn to speak. A song that the school's first-graders are required to recite goes as follows:
Obedience is listening attentively,
Obedience will take instructions joyfully,
Obedience heeds wishes of authorities,
Obedience will follow orders instantly.
For when I am busy at my work or play,
And someone calls my name, I'll answer right away!
I'll be ready with a smile to go the extra mile
As soon as I can say "Yes, sir!" "Yes ma am!"
Hup, two, three!
Former Arkansas governor and Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee is among the 2.5 million Americans who have attended Gothard's Basic Seminar. According to Huckabee, who once earmarked state funds to distribute Gothard's literature in Arkansas prisons, Gothard was responsible for "some of the best programs for instilling character into people." But to the deeply alienated Murray, Gothard was the original source of his pathology. "I believe that the truth needs to be exposed," Murray wrote in a September 2006 discussion forum of recovering Gothard followers. "People need to see through
Originally posted by: amdhunter
All religions are nightmares.
Originally posted by: dahunan
Obedience is listening attentively,
Obedience will take instructions joyfully,
Obedience heeds wishes of authorities,
Obedience will follow orders instantly.
For when I am busy at my work or play,
And someone calls my name, I'll answer right away!
I'll be ready with a smile to go the extra mile
As soon as I can say "Yes, sir!" "Yes ma am!"
Hup, two, three!
Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Originally posted by: dahunan
Obedience is listening attentively,
Obedience will take instructions joyfully,
Obedience heeds wishes of authorities,
Obedience will follow orders instantly.
For when I am busy at my work or play,
And someone calls my name, I'll answer right away!
I'll be ready with a smile to go the extra mile
As soon as I can say "Yes, sir!" "Yes ma am!"
Hup, two, three!
Wow that's pretty extreme. Almsot as bad as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU
While I have plenty of gripes with organized religion, I have to take issue with this statement. If the people discussed in this article had any respect for the teachings of Jesus, they would be good people, as many Christians are. Citing such demented people as reason to slander religion as a whole is just as absurd as citing the Soviets to condemn atheism.Originally posted by: amdhunter
All religions are nightmares.
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
oh, if you get to use this against Huckabee, then well Barack has a lil surprise that you should know about
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
oh, if you get to use this against Huckabee, then well Barack has a lil surprise that you should know about
this is posted for discussion/reflection...
Guessing you want to follow in the footsteps of Huckabee and his leader/mentor?
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
oh, if you get to use this against Huckabee, then well Barack has a lil surprise that you should know about
this is posted for discussion/reflection...
Guessing you want to follow in the footsteps of Huckabee and his leader/mentor?
dude, you BOLDED his name, i guess you prefer the fact that Barack never ever ever had or attended a religious nut's speeches...
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
oh, if you get to use this against Huckabee, then well Barack has a lil surprise that you should know about
this is posted for discussion/reflection...
Guessing you want to follow in the footsteps of Huckabee and his leader/mentor?
dude, you BOLDED his name, i guess you prefer the fact that Barack never ever ever had or attended a religious nut's speeches...
Interesting point you raise and I agree with your point.... However:
Did Barry ever use taxpayer's money to pay for a religious nut's speeches? Apparently Huckabee did. Amazing how conservatives are against nationalized "whatever a dem says" but for nationalized or state support religion, especially their own... hmmmm.
With that said, Huckabee is a weird dude. He is totally the type of politician I could get behind, then he has to go off and start talking crazy shit.
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
oh, if you get to use this against Huckabee, then well Barack has a lil surprise that you should know about
this is posted for discussion/reflection...
Guessing you want to follow in the footsteps of Huckabee and his leader/mentor?
dude, you BOLDED his name, i guess you prefer the fact that Barack never ever ever had or attended a religious nut's speeches...
Interesting point you raise and I agree with your point.... However:
Did Barry ever use taxpayer's money to pay for a religious nut's speeches? Apparently Huckabee did. Amazing how conservatives are against nationalized "whatever a dem says" but for nationalized or state support religion, especially their own... hmmmm.
With that said, Huckabee is a weird dude. He is totally the type of politician I could get behind, then he has to go off and start talking crazy shit.
Yeah, the conservatives are totally pushing for state-imposed religion.
Give me a break.
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Originally posted by: dahunan
Obedience is listening attentively,
Obedience will take instructions joyfully,
Obedience heeds wishes of authorities,
Obedience will follow orders instantly.
For when I am busy at my work or play,
And someone calls my name, I'll answer right away!
I'll be ready with a smile to go the extra mile
As soon as I can say "Yes, sir!" "Yes ma am!"
Hup, two, three!
Wow that's pretty extreme. Almsot as bad as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU
yes.. that tiny little classroom where the teacher probably got disciplined is equivalent to MORE THAN 2.5 million people who had to learn what you chose to quote
People like you are proof of evolution.. IN REVERSE
A song that the school's first-graders are required to recite goes as follows:
Originally posted by: FaaR
Whoah... Taliban christianity used as a tool for mental control and domination... Whodathunkit!
Too much of any religion is always bad, because religion fosters rigid thinking and obedience to doctrine. Only church dogma is allowed, and that is unchanging forever, even though the wealth of human knowledge always expands (except when held back and suppressed by the church, of course...)
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Homeschooling can be done well or badly. The public schools in Rochester City School district spend over $10k/year per student and yet less than half of them graduate high school. We also know that statistically speaking home schooled kids not only do better, but quite a bit better on average than public school educated kids as a whole, and not all homeschool kids are socially inept; I'm aware of groups locally that have frequent interaction specifically designed for homeschool kids with after-school activities, etc.. So while the arguments against homeschooling are numerous, they are also numerous against other schooling types depending on how the kid does in any given environment.
Career wise they are superior, though, so it's not like they make it to university and then end up kicked out or pregnant alcoholics. I bet on average they are socially inferior, or more accurately less able to socialize with their peers (naturally their tastes and dislikes will not be the same as those public-educated, so they would not interact with them as fluidly as other public-educated).Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Homeschooling can be done well or badly. The public schools in Rochester City School district spend over $10k/year per student and yet less than half of them graduate high school. We also know that statistically speaking home schooled kids not only do better, but quite a bit better on average than public school educated kids as a whole, and not all homeschool kids are socially inept; I'm aware of groups locally that have frequent interaction specifically designed for homeschool kids with after-school activities, etc.. So while the arguments against homeschooling are numerous, they are also numerous against other schooling types depending on how the kid does in any given environment.
If they lack Socialization with their Peers, all that Knowledge gets wasted. It takes more than Knowledge to succeed, unless one is a total Geek and exceptional in some Field.
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Homeschooling can be done well or badly. The public schools in Rochester City School district spend over $10k/year per student and yet less than half of them graduate high school. We also know that statistically speaking home schooled kids not only do better, but quite a bit better on average than public school educated kids as a whole, and not all homeschool kids are socially inept; I'm aware of groups locally that have frequent interaction specifically designed for homeschool kids with after-school activities, etc.. So while the arguments against homeschooling are numerous, they are also numerous against other schooling types depending on how the kid does in any given environment.
I know a few home schooled people myself and I agree their social skills are sub par, one of my co-workers was home schooled and is incredibly sub par and will probably go to the grave a virgin he's so bad.Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Homeschooling can be done well or badly. The public schools in Rochester City School district spend over $10k/year per student and yet less than half of them graduate high school. We also know that statistically speaking home schooled kids not only do better, but quite a bit better on average than public school educated kids as a whole, and not all homeschool kids are socially inept; I'm aware of groups locally that have frequent interaction specifically designed for homeschool kids with after-school activities, etc.. So while the arguments against homeschooling are numerous, they are also numerous against other schooling types depending on how the kid does in any given environment.
If they lack Socialization with their Peers, all that Knowledge gets wasted. It takes more than Knowledge to succeed, unless one is a total Geek and exceptional in some Field.
Originally posted by: sandorski
If they lack Socialization with their Peers, all that Knowledge gets wasted. It takes more than Knowledge to succeed, unless one is a total Geek and exceptional in some Field.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: sandorski
If they lack Socialization with their Peers, all that Knowledge gets wasted. It takes more than Knowledge to succeed, unless one is a total Geek and exceptional in some Field.
Seeing some of the kids that other kids socialize with and the way some schools are run now, I would prefer they stay at home and not mix with other kids.
Originally posted by: Skoorb
[
I have a sense that homeschool kids interact better with adults than other kids do but probably worse with other kids than other kids do.
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: sandorski
If they lack Socialization with their Peers, all that Knowledge gets wasted. It takes more than Knowledge to succeed, unless one is a total Geek and exceptional in some Field.
Seeing some of the kids that other kids socialize with and the way some schools are run now, I would prefer they stay at home and not mix with other kids.
That ultimately works against them. There has always been a Bad Crowd they should avoid, but that's a Minority.