The NRA answer to an assault weapons ban.

[buckshot24]

All students should be armed with automatic rifles at all times while on public property and lands. Remove science classes from the schools and replace them with weapons training classes.

I love argument by caricature.

 

[fskimospy]

I think one obvious change we can make is to abolish "gun free zones" since this is where all of these mass killings take place. A guy who is about to kill as many people as he can shouldn't have places where he knows he won't be confronted with deadly force. If a person is permitted to carry a gun in public then allowing them to carry them in school shouldn't be a threat to public safety.

I think arming teachers isn't the answer but deliberately disarming them is worse.

Columbine had someone capable of confronting them with deadly force. Virginia Tech had people capable of confronting him with deadly force. Gabby Giffords' shooting had someone there capable of confronting him with deadly force.

Gun free zones are not the problem, and people there with guns were not the answer.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I think one obvious change we can make is to abolish "gun free zones" since this is where all of these mass killings take place. A guy who is about to kill as many people as he can shouldn't have places where he knows he won't be confronted with deadly force. If a person is permitted to carry a gun in public then allowing them to carry them in school shouldn't be a threat to public safety.

I think arming teachers isn't the answer but deliberately disarming them is worse.

I hate argument by caricature.

 

[buckshot24]

Columbine had someone capable of confronting them with deadly force.

Yeah, the guard missed unfortunately. I'm not advocating the NRA position with armed guards. There was another guy with a gun but he was a cop who happened to be near by.

Virginia Tech had people capable of confronting him with deadly force.

Yeah, the cops of the university which obviously wasn't enough. You're making my point. Nobody else was allowed to have a gun.

Gun free zones are not the problem, and people there with guns were not the answer.

It isn't the only problem but it certainly is a problem. Telling law abiding citizens that they can carry a gun in public but not at certain places allows nutjobs to know that they won't be met with deadly force from some random citizen. If they get attacked it will be from cops or guards. If one wanted to plan a mass shooting it would make more sense to pick a spot with a lot of helpless people rather than a place where any random dude could pop you in the back.

Abolishing "gun free zones" isn't the only answer, granted. But disarming law abiding citizens who can carry their guns in other public places isn't either.

 

[buckshot24]

I hate argument by caricature.

That's obviously bullshit. You love them.

 

[xj0hnx]

Columbine had someone capable of confronting them with deadly force.

A security guard that fired on them, but it is unclear what he did after their shootout. Did he hide? Why didn't he follow through?

Virginia Tech had people capable of confronting him with deadly force.

A perfect example of "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away". They arrived just in time to hear Cho shot himself. If one of the college students had been armed? Who knows.

Gabby Giffords' shooting had someone there capable of confronting him with deadly force.

was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio was a CCW holder and had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not use the firearm to engage or threaten the gunman.

Gun free zones are not the problem, and people there with guns were not the answer.

No, they are not the problem, but they sure are not the answer.

 

[blankslate]

As bad guys with guns can always also stop good guys with guns too.

Is this really the best argument the NRA can come up with?

Well if you go with the crackpot hypothesis that the top levels of the NRA are merely a lobbying arm and advocate for the gun manufacturers (quite a different thing from what it was when it started) then what the NRA spokesperson said makes perfect sense.

I only wished that he had the balls to say it in front of the families of the victims. If he really believed what he said he should've done that...

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah, the guard missed unfortunately. I'm not advocating the NRA position with armed guards. There was another guy with a gun but he was a cop who happened to be near by.

Yeah, the cops of the university which obviously wasn't enough. You're making my point. Nobody else was allowed to have a gun.

It isn't the only problem but it certainly is a problem. Telling law abiding citizens that they can carry a gun in public but not at certain places allows nutjobs to know that they won't be met with deadly force from some random citizen. If they get attacked it will be from cops or guards. If one wanted to plan a mass shooting it would make more sense to pick a spot with a lot of helpless people rather than a place where any random dude could pop you in the back.

Abolishing "gun free zones" isn't the only answer, granted. But disarming law abiding citizens who can carry their guns in other public places isn't either.

Why is it that the failure of a conservative policy is always somehow solved by even more of the same?

The shooter in front of the Empire State Building was confronted by several people with guns quite quickly... trained people with guns. Those trained people with guns ended up shooting way more people than the shooter did.

I can do this all day.

 

[RabidMongoose]

That's obviously bullshit. You love them.

No, I hated your post. It was horrible caricature, IMO.

 

[buckshot24]

Why is it that the failure of a conservative policy is always somehow solved by even more of the same?

Which policy is that? The 2nd amendment?

The shooter in front of the Empire State Building was confronted by several people with guns quite quickly... trained people with guns. Those trained people with guns ended up shooting way more people than the shooter did.

I can do this all day.

You can be a moron all day too.

So you're arguing against police having guns now?

You're arguing against my points by pointing out that utopia doesn't exist. We can't get rid of all guns no matter what laws we pass. The only way to avoid gun deaths is to have all guns magically disappear.

Here is a news story that doesn't tell the whole story where a man with a concealed permit stops a crime.

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/8178/3730022

This woman would most likely be dead if this man didn't have a permit to carry. Would you rather that she was dead?

 

[buckshot24]

No, I hated your post. It was horrible caricature, IMO.

Forgot about your fucking trolling. Sorry, carry on.

 

[fskimospy]

Which policy is that? The 2nd amendment?

No. duh.

You can be a moron all day too.

So you're arguing against police having guns now?

No, duh.

You're arguing against my points by pointing out that utopia doesn't exist. We can't get rid of all guns no matter what laws we pass. The only way to avoid gun deaths is to have all guns magically disappear.

Here is a news story that doesn't tell the whole story where a man with a concealed permit stops a crime.

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/8178/3730022

This woman would most likely be dead if this man didn't have a permit to carry. Would you rather that she was dead?

Yet another straw man. What is your problem with rational argument? You are saying that more people with guns will lead to fewer gun deaths. I have seen no empirical evidence for such a thing, but plenty of counterfactual evidence for it. It is not that guns can never stop crime, it is that they can also make things much, much worse. Aurora is a great example of a place where more armed people in the theater probably would have led to even more casualties.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Forgot about your fucking trolling. Sorry, carry on.

LOL a troll calling someone else a troll!! LOL!

 

[Cerb]

All students should be armed with automatic rifles at all times while on public property and lands. Remove science classes from the schools and replace them with weapons training classes.

Better yet, remove things like home ec, typing, and similar needless courses, instead . At the least, it wouldn't be bad to have a population that, having had to learn to handle them, wasn't so afraid of guns and their owners--just the crazies.

 

[buckshot24]

No. duh.

Well which one then?

No, duh.

Those were police officers who shot up the sidewalk injuring people.

Yet another straw man. What is your problem with rational argument?

Maybe if you'd just express your ideas directly I wouldn't misrepresent them.

You are saying that more people with guns will lead to fewer gun deaths.

I think that if there were a couple people that were carrying on school premises there very well could have been less people killed. I don't have a perfect solution and neither does anybody. Disarming people who are licensed to carry only in certain places is absolutely stupid. Plus shouldn't the goal be less violent crime regardless on what means criminals used to achieve them?

I have seen no empirical evidence for such a thing, but plenty of counterfactual evidence for it.

Such as?

It is not that guns can never stop crime, it is that they can also make things much, much worse. Aurora is a great example of a place where more armed people in the theater probably would have led to even more casualties.

You realize he picked a theater that was "gun free" right? Maybe that was an accident or maybe he didn't want to take the risk in attacking the numerous theaters in the area that weren't "gun free".

 

[CanOWorms]

The time has come for this country to stop catering to the destructive elements of the culture of the White Republican Male.

 

[amddude]

The time has come for this country to stop catering to the destructive elements of the culture of the White Republican Male.

Aren't white republican males the new blacks? Medicating them in kindergarten, affirmative action cockblocks them at college, meanwhile women and minorities are ushered in, blah blah blah.

 

[CanOWorms]

Aren't white republican males the new blacks? Medicating them in kindergarten, affirmative action cockblocks them at college, meanwhile women and minorities are ushered in, blah blah blah.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting, but White Republican Males are probably the largest recipients of affirmative action benefits. They tend to receive an incredible amount of handouts from government and society, and squander what they've been given. Our country has been largely structured to cater to benefit them.

I think a lot of them are going to have difficulty adjusting to an egalitarian society because they used to not have to put in honest work to advance professionally and socially. I would not be surprised if more of these White Republican Male types go on mass shootings because "their country has been taken away from them."

 

[davmat787]

The time has come for this country to stop catering to the destructive elements of the culture of the White Republican Male.

What about all of the inner city killings like we heard about over the summer when it was 15-20 a day in Chicago? Why be racist and not care about them?

 

[CanOWorms]

What about all of the inner city killings like we heard about over the summer when it was 15-20 a day in Chicago? Why be racist and not care about them?

People in the inner cities are profiled, harassed, etc. all the time. Our country has not developed for centuries by catering to people there. Rather, it has developed to the Republican White Male's struggle for supremacy, which has involved incredible amounts of oppression of those in the inner cities.

 

[Incorruptible]

The time has come for this country to stop catering to the destructive elements of the culture of the White Republican Male.

Oh dear another ignorant leftist. You do realize that blacks commit much more murders than whites?

http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...es-than-whites-do-to-blacks/question-2667057/

 

[trenchfoot]

In specifically addressing the NRA's stance on having firearms on campus:

As the last line of defense in a well designed defense protocol, I'd prefer our teachers be trained and armed with tasers or other effective but non-lethal defensive devices that are well secured but readily accessible rather than arming them with firearms.

I'd prefer that any armed security personnel be taken from the ranks of existing police forces and re-oriented toward a more defense-minded posture and armed with the latest technology in the way of securing and defending their post, including having available dogs trained for detecting firearms and explosives. Included with this assignment would be the stature, increased pay and honor for those defending our most precious posessions.

I'd prefer that those schools now in the design stage and being readied for construction have included in them a much higher priority for preventing and repelling attacks against their occupants. I'm sure an intelligently designed campus can look open yet have effective and meaningful security design parameters and matching defense protocols within. Looks can be beneficially deceiving, especially when very young innocent children are of concern.

And seeing that they are vociferously defending and promoting the widespread use of firearms and thus tangentially involved in this controversy, all expenses in funding the aforementioned, all of it, should be completely funded by the NRA with absolutely no strings attached, especially in the area of their desire to promote their pro-gun sales agenda.

 

[CanOWorms]

Oh dear another ignorant leftist. You do realize that blacks commit much more murders than whites?

http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...es-than-whites-do-to-blacks/question-2667057/

I don't see how this is relevant to what I stated. I'm not suggesting that we cater to another destructive element. I'm suggesting that we not be a country that is meant to be furthering the supremacy of the White Republican Male. This involves not catering to their culture at the detriment of all others in this country. If you want to live in that type of country, then self deport yourself to one.

Also, your article has many flaws. For example, the judicial, police, etc. systems may have been established to cater to White Republican Males. If White Republican Males are treated like everyday citizens, would their crime numbers go up?

 

[berzerker60]

Oh dear another ignorant leftist. You do realize that blacks commit much more murders than whites?

http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...es-than-whites-do-to-blacks/question-2667057/

No, poor people commit much more crime, including murder, than wealthier people. Black people being poorer than whites is largely a legacy of centuries of slavery then Jim Crow.

 

[Incorruptible]

I don't see how this is relevant to what I stated. I'm not suggesting that we cater to another destructive element. I'm suggesting that we not be a country that is meant to be furthering the supremacy of the White Republican Male. This involves not catering to their culture at the detriment of all others in this country. If you want to live in that type of country, then self deport yourself to one.

Also, your article has many flaws. For example, the judicial, police, etc. systems may have been established to cater to White Republican Males. If White Republican Males are treated like everyday citizens, would their crime numbers go up?

How are we doing this?