The Nvidia G-Sync Thread

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Raghu

Senior member
Aug 28, 2004
397
1
81
If that were true, there would be no stutter without v-sync. You'd just get tearing, but we should all know that isn't true by now. (Look at all the early FCAT data.)
Not really. With FPS<60, parts of the frame that werent overwritten by the next frame will be the stutter. With FPS>60, parts of the frame overwritten by the next frame will be stutter.

I did miss something earlier. A factor that GSync will not fix - variation in frame render time. If theres a way to predict how much time the subsequent frame will take to render, we will have perfect GSync.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Not really. With FPS<60, parts of the frame that werent overwritten by the next frame will be the stutter. With FPS>60, parts of the frame overwritten by the next frame will be stutter.

I did miss something earlier. A factor that GSync will not fix - variation in frame render time. If theres a way to predict how much time the subsequent frame will take to render, we will have perfect GSync.

This is what I was talking about. There are lots of stuttering situations that are part of the frame rendering time, or even the draw calls prepping the frame rendering.

G-sync fixes one type of stutter, the one related to syncing to the display, and it removes tearing and latency issues also associated with v-sync.

It just doesn't fix everything.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
It will fix the stuttering associated with vsync and it will fix the image quality issues with tearing. But the stuttering that fraps captures for example wont change, that variance within the frames themselves will remain as its either variations between GPU render times or differences in CPU time for a frame, or just backpressure due to command queue buffers. Gsync fixes the end of the pipeline but the beginning is still a problem and it will still causes variance in the frames produced.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
If there is one issue with G-SYNC it is that you have to see it to believe what it can accomplish and describing the changes it made to how I approached gaming is impossible. Right now, you may think that your current 60Hz or 120Hz panel provides a great experience. I know I did. My tune changed from the moment I started playing Battlefield 4 multiplayer with G-SYNC enabled.

The question here is simple: is NVIDIA&#8217;s G-Sync a genre-defining technology? Even in its early form I&#8217;d have to respond with an emphatic &#8220;YES!&#8221;. Plus, with some of NVIDIA&#8217;s soon-to-be-announced features, supporting monitors will quickly become a must have item for gamers provided they hit a variety of price points.

Until our full review is published early next year, I can safely say that after a week of using G-SYNC, there&#8217;s really only one word to sum up my experience thus far: awesome.
:thumbsup:

It's my next upgrade, after the video card itself ^_^
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
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It will fix the stuttering associated with vsync and it will fix the image quality issues with tearing. But the stuttering that fraps captures for example wont change, that variance within the frames themselves will remain as its either variations between GPU render times or differences in CPU time for a frame, or just backpressure due to command queue buffers. Gsync fixes the end of the pipeline but the beginning is still a problem and it will still causes variance in the frames produced.

At least it fixes much of the problem. I hope Gsync becomes an industry standard, because I'm not going to pay that much for three such chips for an Eyefinity array.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
It's not Gsyncs job to fix frame time inconsistency, the only fix that the display/output can apply to inconsistent frames is to artificially add latency, which is specifically what we're trying to avoid, when eliminating tearing. It's an inherent issue.

It should be the job of the developers and the people writing the game engine to make their game run as consistently as possible, if you wildly vary the workload on the GPU you'll get extremely inconsistent frame rates.

You have to be careful what you expect each specific technology to fix, it's outside of the scope of vsync/gysync to manage the load a game engine applies to a video card.
 

DiogoDX

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
757
336
136
While G-SYNC may look like a cure-all for many of the glaring shortcomings in the display market, it isn&#8217;t infallible and it can&#8217;t rectify every issue. Stuttering will continue to rear its ugly head when games load textures or when a system storage device becomes a bottleneck. In addition, blur still occurs and detracts from the overall experience despite G-SYNC&#8217;s improvements in other areas.

Not as miraculous as the marketing I have seen.
 

Face2Face

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2001
4,100
215
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Per Tom's

"Nvidia reiterated for us G-Sync is best experienced when you're pushing your graphics card to frame rates between 30 and 60. As a result, the technology can really benefit conventional 60 Hz screens retrofitted with the G-Sync module"

I hope this module can be retrofitted to the current Korean panels...
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Useless at 1080P and 60Hz refresh rate.

Maybe higher resolution and higher refresh rate would help it shine.

But worthless at 1080@60Hz.

tviceman asked for what the linus video stated...

That certainly is NOT what linus and slick mentioned in their preview. Their preview, like all other gsync previews, was resoundingly positive with G-sync being a complete evolutionary and game changing experience. No tearing even at sub 60 framerates, no input lag, just completely smooth gaming. This lets you also increase image quality on less hardware without a loss in perceptible performance.

In fact, Linus made an analogy; remember how completely game changing SSDs were? Linus stated that G-sync is the same for monitors and video cards. Their preview was resoundingly positive, I have NO IDEA what you're talking about here.

The flip side of the coin they mentioned was potentially getting g-sync in more panels aside from the asus vg248qw, which a large contingent of users will want. This was mentioned. Nvidia apparently is working on this, but the G-sync module isn't a simple plug and place device; it requires some device changes on the part of screen manufacturers. I don't see this as a big issue since viewsonic, ben-q, asus, and others have signed on to use G-sync.
 
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rtsurfer

Senior member
Oct 14, 2013
733
15
76
tviceman asked for what the linus video stated...

That certainly is NOT what linus and slick mentioned in their preview. Their preview, like all other gsync previews, was resoundingly positive with G-sync being a complete evolutionary and game changing experience. No tearing even at sub 60 framerates, no input lag, just completely smooth gaming. This lets you also increase image quality on less hardware without a loss in perceptible performance.

In fact, Linus made an analogy; remember how completely game changing SSDs were? Linus stated that G-sync is the same for monitors and video cards. Their preview was resoundingly positive, I have NO IDEA what you're talking about here.

The flip side of the coin they mentioned was potentially getting g-sync in more panels aside from the asus vg248qw, which a large contingent of users will want. This was mentioned. Nvidia apparently is working on this, but the G-sync module isn't a simple plug and place device; it requires some device changes on the part of screen manufacturers. I don't see this as a big issue since viewsonic, ben-q, asus, and others have signed on to use G-sync.

Strange.
Well I dont say that they were complaining about it.

I specifically remember Linus saying that it need to be higher than 1080P and 60Hz to make an significant impact. Because current High end graphics cards(people who would generally buy a G sync monitor.) usually run all the games at 60 Fps majority of the time, rendering G sync almost useless except in the certain scenerious where GPU draws more frames then monitors refresh rate.


I watched the video late last night, maybe I need to re watch it and brush up my memory.....?
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Strange.
Well I dont say that they were complaining about it.

I specifically remember Linus saying that it need to be higher than 1080P and 60Hz to make an significant impact. Because current High end graphics cards(people who would generally buy a G sync monitor.) usually run all the games at 60 Fps majority of the time, rendering G sync almost useless except in the certain scenerious where GPU draws more frames then monitors refresh rate.


I watched the video late last night, maybe I need to re watch it and brush up my memory.....?
They made it very clear it was really good, but they also made note that it is going to be a hard sale for similar reasons as SSD's. People just don't view it as all that important until they use it, but getting people to use it is very difficult. You can't show people how much better it is without them having one in front of them. This is where they mentioned that a lot of people will think if they have 60hz and 60 FPS, it isn't needed, but they did not say that was the case themselves. They said the opposite.

They mentioned a lot of different cases where it shined and they even mentioned that Nvidia will be bringing these to 60hz monitors and to 1440p monitors, and 1600p monitors. It is just the first monitor will be 1080p 144hz.
 

rtsurfer

Senior member
Oct 14, 2013
733
15
76
They made it very clear it was really good, but they also made note that it is going to be a hard sale for similar reasons as SSD's. People just don't view it as all that important until they use it, but getting people to use it is very difficult. You can't show people how much better it is without them having one in front of them. This is where they mentioned that a lot of people will think if they have 60hz and 60 FPS, it isn't needed, but they did not say that was the case themselves. They said the opposite.

They mentioned a lot of different cases where it shined and they even mentioned that Nvidia will be bringing these to 60hz monitors and to 1440p monitors, and 1600p monitors. It is just the first monitor will be 1080p 144hz.

Actually you are right.

I was somewhat wrong. Although I did found out where i got that impression from.

Check out Linus' latest WAN show on his channel.

Start around 50:50 mark. They discussion G-sync with our very own Anand for like 15 mins. Where they toss around all their thoughts.
 

Braxos

Member
May 24, 2013
126
0
76
Hmmm
As I see and understand it gsync will NOT eliminate lag it will reduce it from a frame since the monitor will wait for the next frame to be calculated from the GPU so a high end GPU will do that in 1 frame time but a lower GPU will need 1.2 frame time to do the same so that monitor will have a delay of 0.2 frame but it will better since on non gsync monitor this would be a delay of 1 frame.
Am I wrong on this? I think this technology will be for higher resolutions (4k) till the GPU can produce high frame rates on them aka above 60fps on 4k where this is impossible now on SINGLE GPU with low costs
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Hmmm
As I see and understand it gsync will NOT eliminate lag it will reduce it from a frame since the monitor will wait for the next frame to be calculated from the GPU so a high end GPU will do that in 1 frame time but a lower GPU will need 1.2 frame time to do the same so that monitor will have a delay of 0.2 frame but it will better since on non gsync monitor this would be a delay of 1 frame.
Am I wrong on this? I think this technology will be for higher resolutions (4k) till the GPU can produce high frame rates on them aka above 60fps on 4k where this is impossible now on SINGLE GPU with low costs

From what I have read, G-sync will almost remove all latency from the displaying side of things, but there 1-3ms of latency due to the monitor having to poll to see if the GPU is ready. If that causes up to 3ms of latency, which would suggest the polling rate is 333 times a second. In the future, they may increase the polling rate, but until then, there is going to be 1-3ms of latency due to this requirement. This did show up as 3-5% loss in FPS.

On the other hand, V-sync causes up to 16ms of latency in the case of 60hz monitors at least, so this seems to be worth it.
 

Braxos

Member
May 24, 2013
126
0
76
I mean on a system that the GPU can give a frame every 16ms -5ms vs a system where the GPU can give a frame every 20ms +-4ms

Gsync will be a must on scenes where do to complex of the scene aka explotions, bf4 levolution and so on, even on higher cards where you could have a fps drop.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
In general, no matter where your FPS are between 30 and your max refresh rate, the advantage of G-sync is that the latency added to the display time is constantly between 1-3ms. Where as with traditional V-sync, the variation will be 1-16ms (1-8ms on a 120hz monitor).

That variance makes a game not feel as smooth.
 
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