*The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

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Hyperlite

Diamond Member
May 25, 2004
5,664
2
76
Originally posted by: amddude
I got an actual chimei-made 22 wide last week. It looks great, no ghosting or bleeding that I can tell. Only one small annoyance, the little clear (maybe it's supposed to be green tinted, don't know) piece that fits over the 'on' light is missing. So I see green light coming from inside the panel where the actual light is, but it's exposed. Other than that, no issues.

cool. have you tried both the VGA and DVI inputs? i'm interested in how the VGA on this performs...Mine is showing shipped from newegg, but i don't have a tracking number yet.
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
And on the same web site, there are also complete, distinct reviews of the Samsung and Westinghouse.

How do you like your own Chi Mei monitor Hyperlite? I was expecting you to post your impressions. This monitor is not as widely available as Acer, Samsung or Viewsonic, so your comments would be of interest.
 

Hyperlite

Diamond Member
May 25, 2004
5,664
2
76
yeah sorry, i had finals this week and hadn't gotten around to it. i'll get some notes up ASAP.
 

letdown427

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2006
1,594
1
0
There's also one offered by VideoSeven, apparently they've been around for some time, I personally hadn't heard of them. Either way, it looked nice, was £234.99, has a DVI port, and was in stock, so I got a couple.

The backlight bleed is noticeable with a very dark scene, however if you take the monitor out of 'Picture' mode, and down to good ol' Economy, obviously the screen is less bright, but that bleed has become unnoticeable to me. The brightness doesn't burn through my retina either

The stand is hilariously wobbly, it's like it's held up by a fat kid. You poke it, it'll just wobble. For ages. Speakers have been muted since day one.

I can't see any difference running the monitor DVI or D-SUB, but perhaps I'm just not picky enough.

I'm utterly satisfied with them at the moment, whether the initial love will fade or not, I don't know.

I previously had a 17" Relisys P.O.S and an older than the earth 18" Eizo that cost about £3,000 at the time (not mine!) and was really dieing a death.

I've also briefly (about a month) used a Belinea 20.1", and these are to my unfussy eyes the same quality, just bigger. I am not doing any colour critical photo work, I do some programming, gaming, general browsing etc, and these monitors are perfect for me.

I'll be happy to answer questions, probably provide a photo or two aswell. PM me if I don't reply in here...

22" V7 From OCUK
 

Javichal

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2006
8
0
0
Hi guys.

Just wanted to say hi because I disappeared from the forums for a long time, but good to see some familiar faces still around (new forum name for me).

But! To give a heads up on the 22" wide, it's no surprise that it has virtually the same dot pitch as the 19" wide. The general consensus was that a 17" (dot pitch of 0.264 mm) is too small while a 19" (dot pitch of 0.294 mm) is too big in terms of dot pitch. Thus the newest widescreens (19" and 22") are somewhere in the middle (0.282 mm for the 22" and 0.284 mm or 0.285 mm for the 19"), to get at a comfortable size for everyone, as well as a new option for everyone. So for those of you who were saying a year or two ago that the LCD market only has 15", 17", 19", how boring, now is when you get your wish as manufacturers have started providing more variety in order to gain market share, rather than the previous phase of just trying to target few (but safe) mainstream sizes.

There's another reason why the 22" will explode. Last year, the big item was the 19" wide. It just so happens that most were made by Chi Mei. At the time, Chi Mei's Fab3, which uses 1100 x 1300 mm glass, was ramping up. For this size glass, the most efficient cut possible is the 19" wide size, since it can (barely) squeeze in 12 panels of this size, the same as 17", while it can only hold 9 19" normal panels. This means that most of the glass is used into making the panels; very little "empty glass" that gets thrown away is left, hence efficient. Other panel manufacturers also have Gen 5 plants (same size glass), but only Chi Mei took the plunge and became the guinea pig to see if the market would accept this somewhat odd resolution (1440 x 900). Unfortunately for all other manufacturers, the market did, leading to monitor makers (who actually put the panels into their products) to line up in front of Fab3 to try to grab some of the panels coming off the factory floor. Okay, I'm kidding about the lining up part, but you get the point. Although other manufacturers eventually came out with their own 19" wide versions, Chi Mei still dominates the 19" wide market.

This year, it's Chi Mei's Fab4 that ramped up. Fab4 processes glass that are 1300 x 1500 mm in size. Guess what...it just so happens that for this size glass, a 22" widescreen size is one of the most efficient cuts possible (also barely squeezing in 12 panels per glass). So it should be no surprise that Chi Mei makes a large portion of the 22" widescreen panels, as it is the only manufacturer who uses this size glass in the world; it will also be interesting to see how other manufacturers respond to this, since using other size glass results in less efficient cuts and thus more wasted glass real estate.

I'm kinda surprised by the reports of backlight bleeding though. My understanding is that Chi Mei's backlights are back-mounted (directly behind the screen), which means a somewhat thicker panel but should mean a pretty even brightness throughout the screen. Side-mounted backlights (where the light tubes are actually on the top and bottom, and diffuser glass then spreads the light to the entire screen) are the ones who tend to have more backlight bleeding issues (it's actually that the diffuser does not spread the light evenly), but they're used more often by other manufacturers because then panels can be made very thin and look snazzier. Chi Mei isn't particularly into snazzy.
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
Welcome Javichal,

Heck of a post for a first one!

Where are you getting all this info about fabs and glass size? Very interesting

What you are saying is that it would not be optimal for other panel makers to produce the 22-inch size, as this would leave them with too much unused glass. Samsung and LG-Philips are supposedly producing such panels

I find it strange, if not suspicious, that 22-inch panels from Samsung and LG-Philips (choose LM220WE1) have almost identical specs as the Chi Mei panel.

Also puzzling that Samsung and LG-Philips would choose to develop an almost identical TN panel, instead of going for a full 8-bit S-PVA or S-IPS panel, to try to position themselves in a higher price/quality market. I have also read rumors that AU Optronics is working on a P-MVA 22-inch panel. I have yet not seen any reports of any monitor using the LG-Philips panel, and there is even some debate about wether Samsung is using its own panel or the Chi Mei panel.

BTW, you can see on the LG-Philips page above that their TN panel has 8-bit color. Is 8-bit physically possible on a TN panel? Or is this marketing hype, like "8-bit equivalent"?

 

Javichal

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2006
8
0
0
Fab sizes are more or less public. It is very interesting how the panel manufacturers' strategies are, because they first have to figure out what the market is likely to be in say three years, what people will want to buy, and then build huge fabrication plants costing literally billions of dollars each geared toward that market forecast. All that money is "sunk" in building construction, equipment purchasing, etc., all before any money starts rolling in (which only happens when the fab can actually start making panels of good enough quality and with few enough dead pixels that people are willing to buy them). These guys really have balls of steel to be willing to take out all those bank loans and put all that money on the line.

One place for example where you can find some info on each manufacturer's fabs is here:
http://www.displaysearch.com/free/articles/DD_spring06.pdf


While any panel can be cut from any size glass (as long as the glass is larger than the panel, of course), the less glass that is thrown away at the end, the better. After all, any glass that is thrown away was paid for but ultimately not used. So they can do it, just that there's more glass thrown away per panel, hence on a per-panel basis it's more expensive.

The actual display part of the LCD is analog, so theoretically, it can have any number of bits that you want. However, the driving force behind 6 bits instead of 8 bits is cost. 6 bits mean 64 different states, while 8 bits mean 256 different states. To be able to drive the pixels to 256 different states instead of 64, you need four times the signal capacity, in other words, four times the number of drivers per panel. As those things are not cheap (in bulk, although individually they're like a buck apiece), it's an area where a manufacturer can easily save say $15 a panel (I'm guessing at the cost here). And although there's always a lot of talk about 6-bit vs 8-bit, the truth is, the vast majority of people (i.e. who just use the computer for work or email and not fancy graphics processing) are not going to notice the difference between the two, or don't care to pay the premium for 8-bit. I would say it's more that manufacturers have taken advantage of the marketing hype of 6-bit vs 8-bit to find ways to claim their panels are 8-bit when it's only 6-bit. Of course, many get away with it, because most people don't really notice the difference. I have no idea on LG-Philips though.
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
Javichal,

Thanks for the added info, and the link to DisplaySearch. This one is going into my Favorites. I also read the .pdf in the link, and although already a bit dated, it explains very well how the TFT-LCD manufacturing industry works.
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
Well, I guess they won't be using the Chi Mei panel, but 2 new 22-inch monitors will soon appear

Samsung CX226BW

LG L226WT

History repeating... It seems the 22-inch wide will do to the 20-inch wide what the 19-inch 5:4 has done to the 17-inch 5:4

The real question however is... The Samsung girl or the LG girl?

I vote LG
 

FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
0
0
Hi everyone,
Great thread!! I'm currently in the market for a 22" and was looking at the new viewsonics.

Any more info on these monitors?

The reason they caught my eye was that they have a stated 85hz vert refresh rate while most all the other 22's have have a 75hz.

Is this a worthwhile feature?

I can see how it can have less tearing if you VC can do faster than 75FPS at 22" resolutions.
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
The Dell E228WFP just appeared on Dell's canadian web site at 399 $C, which is very competitive.

I can't find it on the US web site though. It's probably going to retail for 349 $US

The best part is that as a Dell Home subscriber I received a Boxing Day mailing in which this monitor will be available for 299 $C, only on December 26 and 27. This one looks like a price buster for the 22-inch widescreen category.

I have been unable to find any review of the E228WFP.
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
AU Optronics has just announced their 22-inch panel. It is also a 5ms TN. However, it has a CCFL high colour gamut backlight, which gives this panel 92% of the NTSC color gamut, instead of the usual 72%. See the chart in this link:

Link to TFT Central

So at least we know that when we will see a 22-inch widescreen claiming wide color gamut backlight, it will have the AU Optronics panel.

With this announcement, the major panel makers have released their 22-inch widescreen panels: ChiMei, LG-Philips, Samsung, AU Optronics. So for those, like myself, who were hoping for something other than TN in the 22-inch widescreen category, it looks like the end of the line.

Still, I am anxious to see a monitor using the high colour gamut AU Optronics panel.
 

MegaVovaN

Diamond Member
May 20, 2005
4,131
0
0
I got the 22" Chi Mei on Black Friday from 'Egg

It is a great monitor. At first I was like huh? I am limited to 60 fps in CS:S? But then I got used to it.
Some gradient banding IS there, and it looks a bit weird in movies (strange skin colors - limitation of only 16.2 million colors)

No dead pixels, and overall awesome screen, except I have to wear glasses now while using this... (didn't have to on old 19" CRT @1024x768)

This isn't a one-day-ownership review. I've had this monitor for what, like a month?

btw yesteday somehow I couldn't change mode presets, but a "RESET" in menu fixed that.
Monitor also is not affected by huge speakers I have standing right next to it (19"CRT had purple grayish colors and bent picture at the edges because of them)
 

MegaVovaN

Diamond Member
May 20, 2005
4,131
0
0
My chi mei does not have 1280x800 either.
It has 1280x960 and 1280x720

The screen itself probably will support this resolution, but it will not be fit to aspect ratio...
 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,315
0
76
Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
My chi mei does not have 1280x800 either.
It has 1280x960 and 1280x720
The screen itself probably will support this resolution, but it will not be fit to aspect ratio...
Holy @!!%?*@±!

I have always *assumed* that I could scale down any 22 to 24 inch monitor to 1280 x 800.

If you could select 1280 x 800 in your videocard control panel and see what results you get on screen, I would be interested to know what happens.

 

MegaVovaN

Diamond Member
May 20, 2005
4,131
0
0
Monitor
Windows description......... Plug and Play Monitor
Manufacturer description.... CMC 22 W
Manufacturer................ CMO
????????????????????????????
Plug and Play ID............ CMO2228
Serial number............... 0
EDID data source............ I2C bus (real-time)
????????????????????????????
Manufacture date............ 2006, ISO week 42
EDID revision............... 1.3
Display type and signal..... Digital
Sync input support.......... Separate
Screen size................. 470 x 300 mm (~23")
Power management............ Active off/sleep

Color characteristics
Display gamma............... 2,20
Red chromaticity............ Rx 0,644 - Ry 0,348
Green chromaticity.......... Gx 0,286 - Gy 0,603
Blue chromaticity........... Bx 0,143 - By 0,070
White point (default)....... Wx 0,313 - Wy 0,329

Timing characteristics
VESA GTF support............ Not supported
Horizontal scan range....... 30-82kHz
Vertical scan range......... 56-76Hz
Video bandwidth............. 160MHz
Extension blocks............ n/a
Timing recommendation #1.... 1680x1050 at 60Hz
Modeline................ "1680x1050" 146,250 1680 1784 1960 2240 1050 1053 1059 1089 -hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480 at 60Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480 at 67Hz - Mac II
640 x 480 at 72Hz - VESA
640 x 480 at 75Hz - VESA
720 x 400 at 70Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600 at 56Hz - VESA
800 x 600 at 60Hz - VESA
800 x 600 at 72Hz - VESA
800 x 600 at 75Hz - VESA
832 x 624 at 75Hz - Mac II
1024 x 768 at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768 at 70Hz - VESA
1024 x 768 at 75Hz - VESA
1152 x 864 at 75Hz - VESA
1280 x 720 at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 960 at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024 at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024 at 75Hz - VESA
1360 x 765 at 60Hz - VESA
1440 x 1440 at 60Hz - VESA
1440 x 1440 at 75Hz - VESA
1680 x 1050 at 60Hz - CMO
1680 x 1680 at 60Hz - VESA

Raw EDID base
00: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 0D AF 28 22 01 01 01 01
10: 2A 10 01 03 E8 2F 1E 78 2E C5 85 A4 59 49 9A 24
20: 12 50 54 BF EF 00 81 80 81 40 71 4F 95 00 95 0F
30: B3 00 81 C0 8B C0 21 39 90 30 62 1A 27 40 68 B0
40: 36 00 D9 28 11 00 00 1C 00 00 00 FD 00 38 4C 1E
50: 52 10 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FC 00 43
60: 4D 43 20 32 32 20 57 0A 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FF
70: 00 30 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 06

Display adapter
Adapter description......... NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Adapter device ID........... 0x004510DE
Display settings............ 1680x1050, 32bpp
 
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