The official Electric Car discussion thread

[Kaido]

Tesla adds free titanium underbody shields to Model S to prevent fires:

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/03/2...adds-free-titanium-underbody-shields-model-s/

Tesla Model S To Get Titanium Battery Shield, Plus Deflectors:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...anium-battery-shield-plus-deflectors-breaking

That's pretty cool. I mean, they're in the spotlight as the go-to EV supplier, so it's a great marketing move, but still, that's a pretty nice thing for a car company to do.

 

[Kaido]

Subaru Plans Plug-In Diesel As Tribeca Successor:

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fu...ru_plans_plug_in_diesel_as_tribeca_successor/

If that's true, that would be amazing...

 

[skyking]

Tesla adds free titanium underbody shields to Model S to prevent fires:

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/03/2...adds-free-titanium-underbody-shields-model-s/

Tesla Model S To Get Titanium Battery Shield, Plus Deflectors:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...anium-battery-shield-plus-deflectors-breaking

That's pretty cool. I mean, they're in the spotlight as the go-to EV supplier, so it's a great marketing move, but still, that's a pretty nice thing for a car company to do.

That was pretty much my answer to the problem. I had a multilayer design in mind. Glad they are getting it taken care of.

 

[KentState]

I have been noticing a lot of new Nissan Leafs in my area. I'm taking about passing over 3 dozen of them on my commute to work. According to Nissan's site, there is both a $7,500 federal and $5000 state tax credit. Seems to me that you can score one for the starting price of $21,500 and end up owing $9000 before taxes. No wonder so many people are getting these. Cheapest car on the planet and costs little to power after the charging equipment tax credit and special charging rates from the power company.

 

[JCH13]

I have been noticing a lot of new Nissan Leafs in my area. I'm taking about passing over 3 dozen of them on my commute to work. According to Nissan's site, there is both a $7,500 federal and $5000 state tax credit. Seems to me that you can score one for the starting price of $21,500 and end up owing $9000 before taxes. No wonder so many people are getting these. Cheapest car on the planet and costs little to power after the charging equipment tax credit and special charging rates from the power company.

The Leaf MSRP is really ~$29k, the $21.5k is AFTER ther Federal tax credit of $7500. And you still have to front the $7500 until tax season rolls around.

Still, not too expensive all things considered.

 

[desy]

I do not favor tax credits for purchasing these vehicles

 

[smackababy]

No mention of the MB's B-class to rival Tesla? http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/future/model/model-B_Class_Electric_Drive

Not terrible looking and not completely unreasonable price.

 

[bigi]

No mention of the MB's B-class to rival Tesla? http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/future/model/model-B_Class_Electric_Drive

Not terrible looking and not completely unreasonable price.

Rival Tesla ? Not sure if serious.

It already has Tesla's motor, but 1/3 range of the Tesla.

Most importantly:

NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SUPERCHARGER

 

[RearAdmiral]

I am getting much more excited about electric cars now. I hope that we are seeing the start of some great competition for what seems to be a desired product. For me I have a higher requirements list, I live in the northeast so AWD is desired and my commute is ~90 miles round trip.

I added an additional thought to when I build a house, adding several 240 outlets in the garage for car charging when the time comes.

I have never ever really liked hybrids and/or electric cars but they are starting to get me pumped! I think Tesla is really pushing the market.

 

[Kaido]

I am getting much more excited about electric cars now. I hope that we are seeing the start of some great competition for what seems to be a desired product. For me I have a higher requirements list, I live in the northeast so AWD is desired and my commute is ~90 miles round trip.

I added an additional thought to when I build a house, adding several 240 outlets in the garage for car charging when the time comes.

I have never ever really liked hybrids and/or electric cars but they are starting to get me pumped! I think Tesla is really pushing the market.

Same here. Despite the snow & ice tests I've seen on Youtube with the Tesla, I'd still prefer AWD. They did announce an AWD sedan in addition to the AWD SUV, which is pretty awesome. The downside is that I can get a pair of fully-loaded AWD Subaru wagons for the same price as a single Tesla (base $70k Tesla, anyway...the updated options go over $120k now!), PLUS unlimited range thanks to the gas tanks. So there are some tradeoffs to consider. Plus, Subaru recently killed off the Tribeca & is rumored to be replacing it with a diesel-electric hybrid, which would be amazing:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/31/subaru-viziv-2-presages-tribeca-replacement-diesel-hybrid-t/

 

[smackababy]

Rival Tesla ? Not sure if serious.

It already has Tesla's motor, but 1/3 range of the Tesla.

Most importantly:

NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SUPERCHARGER

It is a luxury all electric. It is marketed to compete against the Tesla market. I'd wager someone who will buy $70,000 is more likely to buy it from MB than a new company, regardless of features.


My only gripes with the Tesla is how the back end looks. It kind of rounds down in a bubble, which is garbage. Either make it a hatch / wagon or cut it down. The bubble fastback look is awful. And I've no place to install a charging station at my condo. =(

 

[MiataNC]

I do not favor tax credits for purchasing these vehicles

Oil companies (and other large Corporate interests) get tax breaks and subsidies. Why do you have a problem with "Joe Public" getting them too?

 

[Kaido]

It is a luxury all electric. It is marketed to compete against the Tesla market. I'd wager someone who will buy $70,000 is more likely to buy it from MB than a new company, regardless of features.

That's not the point they're making - Mercedes partnered with Tesla to make the car, so it would logically follow that they would be able to use Tesla's supercharging network because they're based on the same technology. It's basically like saying you have an Intel chip in an HP laptop and an Intel chip in the Dell laptop, but you can't run Microsoft Office on the Dell laptop, even though the underlying technology is the same. Doesn't really make sense.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/27/autos/mercedes-tesla-b-class-electric/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I guess I can see the business perspective, where Tesla owns the Supercharger market completely & 100%, but it seems like a huge waste of earth's natural resources to make something as large, expensive, and complex as an electric car that can't utilize the charging station that the system is based on. Silly, really.

 

[desy]

Because if oil and gas companies get them it improves their bottom line and theoretically lowering prices for all. I don't support tax breaks for corporations either though.
The problem as for an individual, because why? I don't see a benefit to society by rewarding vehicles that if the electricity comes from coal or oil or ng don't solve pollution or they get preferential treatment in car pool lanes, why again? Its still one person congesting the highway.
If the technology was ready to stand on its own it wouldn't need a huge incentive to make it attractive for the consumer market with hundreds of choices already there.

I'm a fan of electric vehicles when the day comes the batteries offer a similar experience to a FF driven vehicle in cost, range, and convenience. The drive train is just more efficient by a long shot, its the energy storage that sucks.

Now the argument here is this will spur the development of battery tech for vehicles. I'd rather improve ICE as there are gains to be made and wait until batteries improve from the electronics market as their development is driven there.

 

[smackababy]

That's not the point they're making - Mercedes partnered with Tesla to make the car, so it would logically follow that they would be able to use Tesla's supercharging network because they're based on the same technology. It's basically like saying you have an Intel chip in an HP laptop and an Intel chip in the Dell laptop, but you can't run Microsoft Office on the Dell laptop, even though the underlying technology is the same. Doesn't really make sense.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/27/autos/mercedes-tesla-b-class-electric/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I guess I can see the business perspective, where Tesla owns the Supercharger market completely & 100%, but it seems like a huge waste of earth's natural resources to make something as large, expensive, and complex as an electric car that can't utilize the charging station that the system is based on. Silly, really.

I understand that, but my point was only the car itself, which is going to rival Tesla in the marketplace. MB is a known luxury (regardless of what you, meaning anyone, especially certain ATG posters, think) brand with a long, established name behind them. Tesla is a new comer. They had the market cornered for a long time, but MB isn't letting that happen for long.

And a better PC argument would be between Apple and Dell computers. One is artificially designed to only use a specific OS with applications tailored to it, while the other is using a larger network so to speak. And, Apple sells a ton of their PCs despite having less features than most others and using the same technology. They even charge a premium for them!

 

[desy]

My comment was immediately after the discussion of federal and state tax credits for electric vehicles
I don't care if its merc, tesla, nissan, ford, bmw or mitsu

 

[smackababy]

My comment was immediately after the discussion of federal and state tax credits for electric vehicles
I don't care if its merc, tesla, nissan, ford, bmw or mitsu

It's a good thing that not only did I not respond to you, I quoted the post I was responding to!

 

[bigi]

That's not the point they're making - Mercedes partnered with Tesla to make the car, so it would logically follow that they would be able to use Tesla's supercharging network because they're based on the same technology. It's basically like saying you have an Intel chip in an HP laptop and an Intel chip in the Dell laptop, but you can't run Microsoft Office on the Dell laptop, even though the underlying technology is the same. Doesn't really make sense.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/27/autos/mercedes-tesla-b-class-electric/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I guess I can see the business perspective, where Tesla owns the Supercharger market completely & 100%, but it seems like a huge waste of earth's natural resources to make something as large, expensive, and complex as an electric car that can't utilize the charging station that the system is based on. Silly, really.

This is actually the effing point of superchargers!!!

Those have been promised to be free, costs incorporated into car price(s), and proprietary of course.

Now, you want Tesla magically share their best asset with the world?

Let's look at the theoretical opposite... MB has a electric charge network and now they will allow everyone to use it, yea right.

MB uses Tesla motor/powertrain as they could not have gotten anything better .

I am glad they aren't getting the free juice

 

[dguy6789]

The lack of places where you can charge an electric car is just as large an obstacle as battery technology and cost in electric cars becoming a common thing. I wouldn't buy a Model S even if it cost $20,000 and had double the range it has now(and I love this car) entirely because there isn't a place to charge one around here except my house.

It would without a doubt be in Tesla's best interest to improve the perception that electric cars in general have lots of places to charge even at the expense of losing their "exclusivity".

 

[smackababy]

The problem is the perception is a reality. Sure, there might be a few near you, but not nearly as many as their are gas stations.

And then what if I want to go outside of my local area? Do I need a special app or GPS to map my route specifically through places where I can charge? That simply isn't the case with gas powered cars.

 

[Kaido]

I understand that, but my point was only the car itself, which is going to rival Tesla in the marketplace. MB is a known luxury (regardless of what you, meaning anyone, especially certain ATG posters, think) brand with a long, established name behind them. Tesla is a new comer. They had the market cornered for a long time, but MB isn't letting that happen for long.

And a better PC argument would be between Apple and Dell computers. One is artificially designed to only use a specific OS with applications tailored to it, while the other is using a larger network so to speak. And, Apple sells a ton of their PCs despite having less features than most others and using the same technology. They even charge a premium for them!

I've always thought it was interesting that Tesla never advertises themselves as a "luxury" car, only as a "performance" car, so that's an excellent point about MB. Makes you wonder why Tesla doesn't just release an ultra-luxury one or something.

 

[Kaido]

Now, you want Tesla magically share their best asset with the world?

Yes...with their partners. MB's EV is Tesla tech underneath; it seems silly not to have it plug into the Supercharger network. Neutered technology.

 

[smackababy]

Yes...with their partners. MB's EV is Tesla tech underneath; it seems silly not to have it plug into the Supercharger network. Neutered technology.

That is how business works. The underlying technology means absolutely zero to the consumer. They don't care who made the radio technology or developed the engine. They care about how the car performs and what value it has. Tesla spending all this money to make their network of chargers makes little sense if they just let MB use them, because we know with all things being equal MB would sell way more of these than Tesla.

Tesla likely told MB they could use their platform, but not their supercharger network. I don't MB said "hey, let's avoid saving money by developing out own charging stuff!"


I also have a question, can you give someone a jump with your Tesla (or any other EV, for that matter)?

 

[desy]

Yeah why did I read that wrong :~
solly. . . .

 

[Raghu]

http://www.dailytech.com/BMW+i3+Ele...s+EPArated+Range+of+81+Miles/article34850.htm

Ugly car though. Wonder what is the displacement of that 37hp engine?