The official Electric Car discussion thread

[desy]

he luvs his car, maybe more than Tesla loves laser pigeon. However he is missing the point that fossil fuels are liquid sunshine!! How awesome is that!

 

[JCH13]

Oh look, another rabid Tesla fan...

Yeah, it's a really cool car, we all get it. When it's even remotely affordable to the average person then it will truly mean something significant.

 

[DominionSeraph]

So why don't we see more heavy-duty vehicles using electric/hybrid drivetrains? Like, hybrid tech probably would do the most good if put into the Ford F-150 truck. And since the electric motor could make lots of torque, that would be ideal, no? Or especially things like long-haul trucks, buses, and other heavy industrial vehicles.

Their drivetrains are already geared more for efficiency. You don't need an electric motor to allow the ICE to run in its efficient range when you're using gearing to do the same with an engine that has a 1000RPM power band. They're not running 6000RPM gassers with a 4 speed slushbox.
We are starting to see them in buses, but big rigs aren't stop-and-go with most trips under 10 miles like a car is.

 

[Topweasel]

USA average for coal is 34% but all the other energy sources in the other half are much more efficient. For example nuclear power is about 19% of national USA power and you basically don't have to worry about CO2 emissions and its "efficiency" is entirely orthogonal to combustion types (meaningless to compare).

It's funny though. I would be thrilled to see Nuclear power expanded and it would make for me getting a EV or plug-in more viable. But the same people debating EV vs. ICE for emissions are the same group of people that would fight any new Nuclear plants and newer ones would be a lot safer, a lot more efficient, and have less waste. But between them and the problems Japan recently had the chance of us really expanding Nuclear power is gone. On top of that we really need new plants just to replace the current ones. We are going to have to start retiring a lot of them pretty soon, which means placing more stress on coal and other fossil fuel factories.

 

[Kaido]

Oh look, another rabid Tesla fan...

Yeah, it's a really cool car, we all get it. When it's even remotely affordable to the average person then it will truly mean something significant.

I'm curious to see how much of an impact their third-gen $35k "EV for everyone" will have on the general population (regarding affordability). I mean, on a zero-interest loan, your payments are still ~$583 per month on a 60-month payment plan (plus electricity), which I think is still out of the range of most people. While the story does get better once you explain that when compared to a gas car, you can actually save money (less repairs, no high gas fees), that's still a big number in consumer's eyes. But really, even a basic $250/mo $15k car is going to eat gas, so it could be cost-effective depending on how often you fill up. My current gas bill is around $160 a month and my car payment is about $300 a month, so my total (minus repairs/maintenance, but it's a new car so that's really only oil changes) is $460 a month. So it'd cost me $123 a month extra to get the upcoming "for everyone" Tesla car, plus electricity. That's a pretty big chunk of change.

And I'd be limited in range (assuming a 300-mile cap still on the batteries), need to rent a garage for the charger (don't have one right now at my rental, just use the parking lot), and it's really not that big of a hassle to stop at a gas station for 5 minutes to fill up once a week. With (virtually) unlimited range. And a 10-year warranty (Kia). So while I am a huge fan of electric cars, the economics don't make a lot of sense to me as a regular consumer with a regular gas car. The best deal so far seems to have been the $239/mo Honda Fit EV lease, but I doubt we'll see something that attractive again anytime soon!

 

[Rebel44]

...

That make sense only if you get rid of that car after 5 years, because once its paid off, cost of maintenance and "fuel" is very small for EV and much higher for ICE.

Very important is also how many miles per year you drive - for someone with 100 miles daily commute, EV make much more sense compared to someone who drive 25 miles per day.

For me €32K 300km range EV make sense because my daily commute is over 100km/60 miles, gas price here is around $7 per gallon and I plan to keep my car for around 10 years.

 

[desy]

Here, I'll throw a little tech love the EV way
Working on storage options, when and how much still to be identified

http://northdenvernews.com/improved...es-electric-vehicles-peak-oil-global-warming/

 

[Raghu]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-19/fisker-s-billionare-owner-eyes-u-s-revival-china.html

I think Fisker had done some things better than the Tesla, particularly with the engine. Im hoping Fisker2.0 can do much better.

Did Karma have 2 motors driving the same shaft, and hence the need for a diff?

The Karmas electric only range is quite bad. And the petrol engine seems way too big.

 

[michal1980]

I'm really enjoying my c-max energi now that the weather isn't freezing. (in the cold I'd get 12miles of range with the heat on, 17 without. now I can get up to 24 on battery) I live in the burbs and walk to work typically. But all my trips to lowes/target etc are within 8 miles. Ive taken some longer trips this fill up, but so far over 700 miles on the current tank.

 

[bigi]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-19/fisker-s-billionare-owner-eyes-u-s-revival-china.html

I think Fisker had done some things better than the Tesla, particularly with the engine. Im hoping Fisker2.0 can do much better.

Did Karma have 2 motors driving the same shaft, and hence the need for a diff?

The Karmas electric only range is quite bad. And the petrol engine seems way too big.

Why did they go under then?

I think that Fisker is a visual designer. The whole engineering part sucked balls big time. Everything was just bad and unreliable.

 

[smackababy]

I think the Karma looked amazing. It just had technical flaws that caused it to burst into flames right?

 

[desy]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-ev-can-go-1000-miles-on-new-aluminum-air-batteries-82100.html

Jeeps no luv for electric cars even thought there is actually real progress?

http://www.engineering.com/Electron...tteries-Powerful-Safe-Reliable-and-Cheap.aspx

Even better batteries! I member GM saying before they released the Volt Battery tech was 10 years away, might have been a accurate guess at the time

 

[JCH13]

I'm calling BS on the hype in both of those articles.

Carbon-carbon batteries '10 years away, for the last 40 years.' Great! More paper batteries!

I am sure that Alcoa, the country's largest aluminum producer, is backing air-al technology because it is truly viable and useful. Not because they want to sell more aluminum and expand their stagnant market. No, it can't be that. At least they do have a demo vehicle though... ostensibly anyway.

 

[Kaido]

I'm calling BS on the hype in both of those articles.

Carbon-carbon batteries '10 years away, for the last 40 years.' Great! More paper batteries!

I am sure that Alcoa, the country's largest aluminum producer, is backing air-al technology because it is truly viable and useful. Not because they want to sell more aluminum and expand their stagnant market. No, it can't be that. At least they do have a demo vehicle though... ostensibly anyway.

Yeah...I highly doubt that Musk would be investing $5 billion dollars in existing battery technology if something better existed out there.

 

[desy]

Yep nobody ever designed an airplane or a drug and spent millions just to have competition come along and blow them out of the water.
NTM he needs those batteries today, not when alternatives scale up but from the sounds of it, its using existing technologies and infrastructures.

 

[Kaido]

Elon Musk 'clears a path' for electric cars by opening Tesla's patents:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/12/tesla-patents-open-source/

Official details:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

 

[smackababy]

Elon Musk 'clears a path' for electric cars by opening Tesla's patents:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/12/tesla-patents-open-source/

Official details:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

I read he was planning to do this. It isn't a bad move, to be honest. The biggest hurdle for electric cars in infrastructure. Tesla has been building theirs for awhile, and the influx of more electric cars that use the same charging stations is a good thing. Eventually (hopefully), if you want to drive across the country, you don't have to plan your route around the availability of charging stations. This should also allow some people to improve upon it. I'd much rather spend 5 minutes getting an 80% charge than 30. =)


Also, and real company that makes an AYB reference is fine by me.

 

[Kaido]

2014 Mercedes B-Class ED battery much bigger than previously stated:

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/06/23/2015-mercedes-b-class-ed-battery-much-bigger-than-we-knew/

Blood Shed Motors shows off retro muscle cars with electric power transplants:

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/06/19/black-zombie-electric-mustang-launches-blood-shed-motors-video/

In lifetime analysis, Kia Soul EV is way, way cleaner than diesel model:

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/06/24/lifetime-analysis-kia-soul-ev-way-cleaner-than-diesel/

Will Audi surprise us with an all-electric SUV?

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/06/22/will-audi-surprise-us-with-an-all-electric-suv/

Battery tech still seems stuck. Again, if Tesla is going to invest billions into a Gigafactory, then it's obviously not going anywhere for awhile. iirc, Musk said they already have 500-mile batteries, but they are prohibitively expensive, so hopefully the new factory will drive the prices down. A 500-mile AWD Tesla sedan would be amazing!

 

[mmntech]

Battery tech still seems stuck. Again, if Tesla is going to invest billions into a Gigafactory, then it's obviously not going anywhere for awhile. iirc, Musk said they already have 500-mile batteries, but they are prohibitively expensive, so hopefully the new factory will drive the prices down. A 500-mile AWD Tesla sedan would be amazing!

That's the biggest barrier to EVs right now. To reach mass adoption, batteries are going to have to drop in price enough so an EV costs the same as its ICE counterpart, without government subsidies. That last part is important. Governments won't keep subsidizing costs forever, since EVs generate less revenue than gasoline. There will be some sort of ownership tax eventually to cover those loses.

Toyota is doubling down on hydrogen fuel cells
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/25/toyota-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-vs-tesla/

There are some very good arguments against hydrogen. Some I think will get solved (ie ruptured tank fears). However, I think it will end up costing more than people think.

 

[Kaido]

Short video review of the BMW i8 over on Autoblog:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/30/translogic-153-2015-bmw-i8/

That is one crazy-looking design, I didn't think it would make it past the concept stage with those looks! (I think it looks cool)

 

[Kaido]

Also, Translogic moved to Autoblog:

http://translogic.aolautos.com/

They cover a lot of neat car technology stuff, sort of in the same vein as Green Car Reports but they include stuff like mass transit:

http://www.greencarreports.com/

 

[Kaido]

Toyota is doubling down on hydrogen fuel cells
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/25/toyota-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-vs-tesla/

There are some very good arguments against hydrogen. Some I think will get solved (ie ruptured tank fears). However, I think it will end up costing more than people think.

Toyota asking NHTSA for fuel cell car safety exemption regarding electric shocks

 

[Kaido]

2014-2015 Electric Car price guide: (note that there are 2 pages)

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-guide-every-2012-2013-plug-in-car-with-specs

Only 15 cars on the list:

1. Mitsubishi i-MiEV
2. Smart ForTwo Electric Drive
3. Chevy Spark EV
4. Nissan Leaf
5. Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid
6. Fiat 500e
7. Ford C-MAX Energi
8. Chevy Volt
9. Ford Fusion Energi
10. Ford Focus EV
11. Honda Fit EV
12. Honda Accord Plug-in Hybrid
13. BMW i3
14. Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric Drive
15. Tesla Model S

 

[jessieqwert]

Short video review of the BMW i8 over on Autoblog:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/30/translogic-153-2015-bmw-i8/

That is one crazy-looking design, I didn't think it would make it past the concept stage with those looks! (I think it looks cool)

I saw one of these on the Autobahn. All my passengers were asleep!

 

[Kaido]

I saw one of these on the Autobahn. All my passengers were asleep!

Wow, how was it IRL? Looks amazing in the pics! I actually really like the design, super TRON-like! :thumbsup: