The official Electric Car discussion thread

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cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
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Link

Slightly misleading article title, but interesting specs.

And the vehicle does exist and is in testing
It's got a motor at each wheel, gullwing doors, makes a Fisker look like an AMC Pacer, and can go from stationary to 60 MPH as fast as a GT-R. It's powered by something similar to a fuel cell that uses salt water as an electrolyte. And now it's legal to drive on European roads.
It's using a motor per wheel to give it AWD with torque vectoring, and each of those motors makes 227 HP, giving a theoretical total of 908 HP.
The peak torque numbers are allowed to remain absolutely bonkers, at 2138 lb-ft PER WHEEL. Which means 8,552 lb-ft total. Just what you need to reverse the rotation of the earth so you can go back in time like Superman did in that movie. Because that's how time works.

These numbers are impressive, but the part of this car that could actually prove genuinely important is the use of what's called a flow battery. Flow batteries, specifically the redox-type, were patented by NASA in 1976.

More specifically, the Quant uses a nano-network flow battery, which is why the company is called nanoFLOWCELL.

This type of flow battery uses a

... lithium-sulfur chemistry arranged in a network of nanoparticles. The network eliminates the requirement that charge moves in and out of particles that are in direct contact with a conducting plate. Instead, the nanoparticle network allows electricity to flow throughout the liquid. This allows more energy to be extracted.[1]
The energy density of the battery is enough that the Quant is claimed to have a range of 200-300 miles or so. And, perhaps even better than range, unlike traditional chemical batteries, to recharge the battery, you only need to replenish the electrolyte, which, in this case, is just salt water. The size of the electrolyte tanks affects the overall range, and refilling them should be a quick and easy process akin to fueling up a conventional gasoline car.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
I'll be stunned when a flow battery is actually used to power a car beyond initial testing. That's usually when the company/group realizes: "oh crap, this is a terrible idea."
 

Raghu

Senior member
Aug 28, 2004
397
1
81
Some back of envelope calculations reveal Tesla uses ~30hp to cruise at ~70mph. I think even a 500cc engine would be sufficient to recharge the battery and power the car.

Whats the scoop on the Tesla D? Any recent news from Rimac?

It's using a motor per wheel to give it AWD with torque vectoring

Just like the Rimac. Why do these cars bother with turning the front wheels for steering the car? With individual motors, creating a speed difference at each wheel will be enough to steer the car. Essentially can be programmed to under/oversteer, have limited slip, pivot .etc.
 
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bigi

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2001
2,484
154
106
Some back of envelope calculations reveal Tesla uses ~30hp to cruise at ~70mph. I think even a 500cc engine would be sufficient to recharge the battery and power the car.

Whats the scoop on the Tesla D? Any recent news from Rimac?



Just like the Rimac. Why do these cars bother with turning the front wheels for steering the car? With individual motors, creating a speed difference at each wheel will be enough to steer the car. Essentially can be programmed to under/oversteer, have limited slip, pivot .etc.

Would love to see Rimac and Tesla working together, but it is not happening.

Rimac is set to produce 2mil a piece super electric cars, which they sell like 4 a year (?)

Tesla has another things in mind right now.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
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Just like the Rimac. Why do these cars bother with turning the front wheels for steering the car? With individual motors, creating a speed difference at each wheel will be enough to steer the car. Essentially can be programmed to under/oversteer, have limited slip, pivot .etc.

Turning circle I'm guessing? Plus slip angle might mean more tire wear and less mileage.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Just like the Rimac. Why do these cars bother with turning the front wheels for steering the car? With individual motors, creating a speed difference at each wheel will be enough to steer the car. Essentially can be programmed to under/oversteer, have limited slip, pivot .etc.

Are you kidding? You're suggesting tank-steering a car. The tires would be scrubbing, or sliding sideways, to do anything. Parking would be nearly impossible. Tight turns would be smoke shows. Variances in grip between wheels/tires would lead to dangerous instabilities. Should I continue?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Are you kidding? You're suggesting tank-steering a car. The tires would be scrubbing, or sliding sideways, to do anything. Parking would be nearly impossible. Tight turns would be smoke shows. Variances in grip between wheels/tires would lead to dangerous instabilities. Should I continue?

Can you imagine if you had a single motor failure while you were driving on the highway? D:
 

NoCreativity

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,735
62
91
Are you kidding? You're suggesting tank-steering a car. The tires would be scrubbing, or sliding sideways, to do anything. Parking would be nearly impossible. Tight turns would be smoke shows. Variances in grip between wheels/tires would lead to dangerous instabilities. Should I continue?

I've heard taking a curve at 40mph with skid steer is...interesting.

I think it could be done to minimize the issues above but the amount of effort (and cost) to accomplish it would be monumental and it wouldn't work as well as simply steering the wheels.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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So Tesla unveiled the updated Tesla Model S: AWD with Autopilot!

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-p85d-this-is-it-and-i-went-for-a-ride-1644637002

* Adds the "D" to the end of the name (ex. P85D)
* Adds 10 miles of range (275 max now)
* Goes faster (0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds - a full second faster now)
* 3 driving modes: Normal, Sport, Insane
* Quarter-mile time of 11.8 seconds (down from 12.6)
* 691 combined horsepower (smaller 221 HP motor up front, larger 470 HP in the back)
* 687 lb-ft of torque
* Adds autopilot (not autonomous) features (see the self-driving car thread for more details)
 

Raghu

Senior member
Aug 28, 2004
397
1
81
Are you kidding? You're suggesting tank-steering a car. The tires would be scrubbing, or sliding sideways, to do anything. Parking would be nearly impossible. Tight turns would be smoke shows. Variances in grip between wheels/tires would lead to dangerous instabilities. Should I continue?

Why would any of the tyres slip? All tyres can be in 0 slip contact with the road and the car will be able to take a turn/park.

Can you imagine if you had a single motor failure while you were driving on the highway? D:

2 motors (one left and one right) are enough to drive the car. Failure of any motors can be made to set that wheel to rotate freely?

The new Tesla S AWD is interesting. Increased range even with higher weight (~80kg)?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114101082588/691-bhp-tesla-model-s-p85d-unveiled-with-all-wheel-drive
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
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Interesting brake upgrade too:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/first-look-tesla-model-s-p85d-dual-motor

The brakes bring big news, too. Rather than use a vacuum brake booster, Tesla uses an electromechanical brake setup. The feeling under your foot comes from the resistance of a spring and an electric motor. Tesla VP of vehicle engineering Chris Porrit says it's like a steering rack on its side. The Porsche 918 is the only other production car using this system. The arrangement gives Tesla great flexibility with the automatic brakes in autopilot mode. The car can call for high-g braking in panic stops or gentle, chauffeur-style slowdowns. Concerned about brake feel? Tesla can tune it.
 

shawn130c

Senior member
Sep 20, 2005
258
0
71
These EV leases are out of control.

Check these:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/4703853840.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/4689673231.html

Two different dealers offering under $80/month for the Fiat 500e - I'm seeing these cars all over the place so I know they're selling tons of them. When I looked a couple months ago they had $199/month with no fees or down payment (after the govt rebates).

Thank you very much tweakmonkey, you saved me a nice chunk of cash. All the EV, I was looking at (Energi, Volt, Leaf,Spark, Kia Soul EV) was between 200-300. I gave up on trying to score a very cheap lease and was going to settle with the Kia Soul EV. But I contacted the above dealers and got a nice 2 year lease (90 a month (with taxes)/2 year/20k miles, 1000 drive off). Note: one of the dealers above has a 999 down but drive off is around 2000, so make sure to check both and other dealerships if you are interested.

http://imgur.com/svKAHpe - Exactly what I need for my 6 mile commute to work.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Thank you very much tweakmonkey, you saved me a nice chunk of cash. All the EV, I was looking at (Energi, Volt, Leaf,Spark, Kia Soul EV) was between 200-300. I gave up on trying to score a very cheap lease and was going to settle with the Kia Soul EV. But I contacted the above dealers and got a nice 2 year lease (90 a month (with taxes)/2 year/20k miles, 1000 drive off). Note: one of the dealers above has a 999 down but drive off is around 2000, so make sure to check both and other dealerships if you are interested.

http://imgur.com/svKAHpe - Exactly what I need for my 6 mile commute to work.

Wow congrats! I can't believe you're driving an electric car for $90 a month! Nice ride man! :thumbsup:
 

tweakmonkey

Senior member
Mar 11, 2013
728
32
91
tweak3d.net
Thank you very much tweakmonkey, you saved me a nice chunk of cash. All the EV, I was looking at (Energi, Volt, Leaf,Spark, Kia Soul EV) was between 200-300. I gave up on trying to score a very cheap lease and was going to settle with the Kia Soul EV. But I contacted the above dealers and got a nice 2 year lease (90 a month (with taxes)/2 year/20k miles, 1000 drive off). Note: one of the dealers above has a 999 down but drive off is around 2000, so make sure to check both and other dealerships if you are interested.

http://imgur.com/svKAHpe - Exactly what I need for my 6 mile commute to work.

Awesome! Glad to help. Was it Livermore or Fremont you went to? I don't know the Livermore guys but test drove one at Fremont. Either way, congrats. Sweet car for the money!
 

shawn130c

Senior member
Sep 20, 2005
258
0
71
Awesome! Glad to help. Was it Livermore or Fremont you went to? I don't know the Livermore guys but test drove one at Fremont. Either way, congrats. Sweet car for the money!

It was Fiat Dublin, Fiat Fremont wanted $2300 drive off, Dublin was fine with $1000. I test drove the 500e at a local dealership and then just arranged everything by text with Fiat Dublin. Thanks again.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
It was Fiat Dublin, Fiat Fremont wanted $2300 drive off, Dublin was fine with $1000. I test drove the 500e at a local dealership and then just arranged everything by text with Fiat Dublin. Thanks again.

Damn, I'm tempted to get one purely for commuting purposes. I spend over $100 a month just in gas. With my free charging at work, it has the range for me to never charge at home.
 

tweakmonkey

Senior member
Mar 11, 2013
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Damn, I'm tempted to get one purely for commuting purposes. I spend over $100 a month just in gas. With my free charging at work, it has the range for me to never charge at home.

Doesn't that mean you'd essentially be driving a brand new car and have HOV access, no maintenance and all the bells and whistles that come with it for only about $1/day? plus insurance. I can't imagine why you wouldn't do this.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
Doesn't that mean you'd essentially be driving a brand new car and have HOV access, no maintenance and all the bells and whistles that come with it for only about $1/day? plus insurance. I can't imagine why you wouldn't do this.

We're already planning on getting one for the wife. The decision to be made this weekend after a test drive. If I get this too, we'd have 5 cars at the house and the wife says I'd have to get rid of one my other cars.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,421
1,049
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we just finished a 3900 mile road trip in the volt. boulder, co to the upper peninsula of Michigan and back down through St. Louis. set the cruise on the highways at 80mph. It rained about 10 of the 12 days we were gone so there was a lot of wiper and heat use. We averaged about 40 mpg over the trip with only plugging in for a couple days over the 2 week period. The car is great on the road. you may get a little better with the Prius on the highway, but around town we are still using no gas at all.
 
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