not counting the energy in the mpg calculation.
that includes the electric mileage, but not the electric energy.
That's rather astounding, considering most only get about 45mpg cruising at 55mph on the highway without electric assist. How do you have 2.5x the mpg without electricity? Seems pretty unlikely to me, considering the car's weight, CdA and ICE effiency.
Hybrids and Electric cars have as much of an impact on environment when it comes to production as any other car. That's the bottom line.
Don't forget that ALL plastic and rubber is made of.......drum roll........OIL. They still have to be painted and produced with THOUSANDS of parts.
Like I said before. Buying car <insert ANY car> every 3-5 years is the worst thing on the environment. Keeping a car for 15-20 years (regardless of the consumption levels) is always better on our planet and more green.
But you see, our companies have to keep selling cars. The more they sell and more often the better. So go ahead and buy into hype. Just don't tell me you are being green or have less impact on this planet.
Now, let's take above out of the equasion and just assume long term ownership......and you are still no cleaner/better off then your normal combustion engine. Remember, energy is not free. It comes from SOMEWHERE. Electricity you get to charge your EV is dirty (mostly, in US).......and again, production of these vehicles is as bad (if not worse) than your normal car.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla-might-just-worse-environment-know/
So go ahead and get yourself your hybrid or an electric car. better yet, invest into Tesla.
By ALL means, put your money where your mouth is.
PS. you would also be surprised what REALLY drove the invasion of Afghanistan.......
And no, I don't believe EV are the future. History is a good indicator of the future....and my evidence. EV cars came and gone every 10 years for over 100 years.
The reality is, there IS no real answer to energy or a magic fix.
Are you counting the batteries? Last time I checked battery production has some dire effects on our environment.
Cars have been getting 40mpg for ages....
Referring to your previous post, Car with combustion engine AND electric motors+ batteries SURELY only increases the "rare-earth materials used" you are so caught up on.
Yes, modern cars/engines get more efficient (usually). Is this news or something?
Size of tank has NOTHING to do with MPG. It only tell you a range before you refill.
It's a marketing thing that many companies use.....but it's completely useless.
And your basic math skills are pretty sad....
380-38=342/9.3 = 36.77
You using a German Calculator or something?
But Volt is also a Hybrid and not an Electric car, so your point is completely worthless.
I won't even get into reliability/cost as we are talking more complexity/moving parts and electronics.
And you tell me I'm smoking something?
Hybrids and Electric cars have as much of an impact on environment when it comes to production as any other car. That's the bottom line.
Don't forget that ALL plastic and rubber is made of.......drum roll........OIL. They still have to be painted and produced with THOUSANDS of parts.
Like I said before. Buying car <insert ANY car> every 3-5 years is the worst thing on the environment. Keeping a car for 15-20 years (regardless of the consumption levels) is always better on our planet and more green.
But you see, our companies have to keep selling cars. The more they sell and more often the better. So go ahead and buy into hype. Just don't tell me you are being green or have less impact on this planet.
Now, let's take above out of the equasion and just assume long term ownership......and you are still no cleaner/better off then your normal combustion engine. Remember, energy is not free. It comes from SOMEWHERE. Electricity you get to charge your EV is dirty (mostly, in US).......and again, production of these vehicles is as bad (if not worse) than your normal car.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla-might-just-worse-environment-know/
So go ahead and get yourself your hybrid or an electric car. better yet, invest into Tesla.
By ALL means, put your money where your mouth is.
PS. you would also be surprised what REALLY drove the invasion of Afghanistan.......
And no, I don't believe EV are the future. History is a good indicator of the future....and my evidence. EV cars came and gone every 10 years for over 100 years.
The reality is, there IS no real answer to energy or a magic fix.
There would be Neodymium or Samarium in permanent magnet DC motors. Thank you for clearing the air on REEs in batteries.You're insane.
If history was a good indicator of the future we'd all still be living in the jungle trying to hunt dinner with a rock. That seriously can't be your argument.
No one is arguing that hybrids and EVs have higher production costs. That's well-known. However, the life cycle energy usage of such vehicles puts EVs and Hybrids well ahead of conventional vehicles: http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media/files/BatteryElectricVehicleLCA2012-rh-ptd.pdf
As for the math...
You did (and I'm splitting it up here for readability):
380-38=342
342/9.3 = 36.77
Where I did (expanding my work to make it more obvious):
(380mi-38mi)/(9.3-2gal)= 342mi/7.3gal = 46.8mpg
Subtracting 2 gallons to account for an approximate reserve that most manufacturers account for in their range rating. I'm sorry to say but you didn't catch me in an arithmetic error. Shit, I married a math teacher, I'd get divorced if I screwed up arithmetic.
Next up... rare earth materials!
Lanthanum is the only REE (rare earth element) used in making batteries, and it is only used in making NiMH (nickle metal hydride) batteries. http://iamgold.com/files/REE101_April_2012.pdf The Prius uses NiMH batteries, but has switched to lithium-ion for the prius: http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2015+toyota+prius+plug+in+hybrid+revolutionary.htm and has been intending to switch to lithium ion for quite some time: http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ch-to-lithium-ion-batteries-still-lags-others No LiIon chemistry uses any REE, so it can be assumed that no LiIon battery contains REEs: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/explaining_lithium_ion_chemistries
But I suppose since historically Toyota has used NiMH you concluded that Toyota would always used NiMH. So I can see where your confusion comes from.
Again, in my original post, I was impressed by how the Volt designers reduced REE usage by 60% in the drive motor magnets. Since the Volt has always used LiIon batteries the drive motor likely accounts for all of the vehicle's REE usage.
There would be Neodymium or Samarium in permanent magnet DC motors. Thank you for clearing the air on REEs in batteries.
This would not apply to electric cars that use AC induction motors, including Tesla. There is more loss through the inverting process from to DC to AC, but that is free heat for the cabin in cold climates.
My 16 year old Passat had .27 cd WITH radiator inlets/grills etc.
There is nothing impressive about .24.
That was the case 100 years ago.....and will be the case FOREVER.
Once again the used EV market is saturated here. Great time to buy a used EV
With the expiring lease deals and tax breaks, our market is packed full of Nissan Leafs. Check this out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?sort=priceasc&srchType=T&minAsk=500&query=nissan+leaf
Many duplicates but there are 100s and several under $10k, the lowest I saw was only $7900! Too bad I just bought a Fiesta ST last year, I'd love a Leaf as a commuter.
Nice text...There was actually just an article on that on GCR:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098554_should-i-buy-a-used-nissan-leaf-or-another-electric-car
Once again the used EV market is saturated here. Great time to buy a used EV
With the expiring lease deals and tax breaks, our market is packed full of Nissan Leafs. Check this out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?sort=priceasc&srchType=T&minAsk=500&query=nissan+leaf
Many duplicates but there are 100s and several under $10k, the lowest I saw was only $7900! Too bad I just bought a Fiesta ST last year, I'd love a Leaf as a commuter.
See: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors
While it DC motors can have better peak efficiency, induction motors cna have superior efficiency throughout the operating range, leading to a more efficicent system overall. There are many other points of comparison, and the article covers most of them.
One point that I did not notice was the tendency for permanent magnet DC motors to lose their magnetic strength over time if above a certain temperature. While cooling is possible, it is a weak point of PM DC motors.
While 3-phase induction motors have great utility, they also have some severe limitations. They cannot operate from DC; AC is a must. Shaft speed is proportionate to line frequency. Hence, when used with utility power, they are constant speed machines. Finally, when operated from utility power, they have limited starting torque and somewhat limited running peak torque capabilities, when compared to DC type machines.
you can basically write off attached solar as a way to charge an electric car. there is not near enough surface area to make it worth doing. Volt prices are getting cheaper every day, and that would solve your range problem untll the bolt or the next leaf with larger batteries are in production.
Pretty good read, except for this:
Considering he goes on to explain that the frequency can be varied on the motor in a car application, he should probably know that VFDs exist on millions of electric motors connected to the utility grid for various other applications. The last ones I installed were on 480v 100A rooftop units on top of a commercial building, and I know they are popular on various other kinds of compressors which have a high locked rotor amperage.
The "cheapest" strongest known permanent magnet formula will start to lose strength if heated above 80°C (176°F), there is a neodymium formula that can withstand up to 200°C(392°F), but adds a big price premium to something that is already very expensive.
Considering the Tesla P85D can pull 515kW through it's motors, it is not a huge surprise they went with induction, as the permanent magnets needed to harness a field that strong would have been very expensive, and the 80° magnets would not have been able to handle the heat.
BIG time. Solar panels have improved a bit in efficiency, but even a 100 watt panel is still fairly large and expensive. With electric cars running around that pull 515,000 watts, that solar panel is just not going to make a dent, even if you covered every square inch of it with them.
That's pretty awesome. Here the market is far, far from saturated. So the same vehicle is nearly 50% more.
http://www.hummelsnissan.com/certif...oines-ia-5253128a0a0a006474e5d85123f28ce6.htm
I just can't figure out how this could ever work for me, that's my issue. I have a 40 mile commute each way. What are the possibilities of a solar trickle charger while it sits in the parking lot at work? Then there is the winter.... :hmm:
We have, basically, the LA-to-San Francisco pack swap capability in place, and I believe all Model S owners in the California area have been invited at this point to try it out. And what we're seeing is a very low take rate for the pack swap station. So we did an initial round of invitations, where we did basically, like, 200 invitations, and I think there were a total of four or five people that wanted to do that, and they all did it just once. So, like, okay, clearly it's not very popular. And then we said, okay, let's expand that invitation to all customers, but I would expect that all customers behave roughly like that initial sample group.
It's just, people don't care about pack swap. The Superchargers are fast enough that if you're driving from LA to San Francisco, and you start a trip at 9 AM, by the time you get to, say, noon, you want to stop, and you want to stretch your legs, hit the restroom, grab a bite to eat, grab a coffee, and be on your way, and by that time, the car is charged and ready to go, and it's free. So, it's like, why would you do the pack swap? It doesn't make much sense.
We built the pack swap into the car because we weren't sure if people would want to choose the pack swap or not. We thought people would prefer Supercharging, but we weren't sure, so that's why we built the pack swap capability in. And, you know, based on what we're seeing here, it's unlikely to be something that's worth expanding in the future, unless something changes.
I am not sure of the point you're trying to make... I don't think you caught the author in a lie/mistake. "When used with utility power" is different from "when used with a variable frequency speed controller." Clearly he knows that VFDs exist as that's what's used in the car he fucking designed. And, frankly, it is a limitation of the usefulness of induction motors. VFDs are very expensive when compared to the controllers needed to run a DC motor, and this certainly detracts from their usefulness.
I also am not sure of the point I was trying to make, as it was more semantics and splitting hairs. To be fair, you seem to be against induction motors for this post, and for them in the previous.
Our whole convo started when I was pointing out that rare earth elements were needed to construct permanent magnet motors. It started around the last time vdub decided to troll bomb this thread. Who knows what wacky stuff he will post next, or when, but we might want to keep a vigil for this thread, lest he assumes his Passat is the second coming. So again, my qualm is not with you, friend.
I am not trying to one up anyone, just sharing my experience with electric motors. Really surprising how much they are overbuilt for continuous duty. The last one I dealt with was a 50HP, and it had to weigh at least 800 lbs.
That's pretty awesome. Here the market is far, far from saturated. So the same vehicle is nearly 50% more.
http://www.hummelsnissan.com/certif...oines-ia-5253128a0a0a006474e5d85123f28ce6.htm
I just can't figure out how this could ever work for me, that's my issue. I have a 40 mile commute each way. What are the possibilities of a solar trickle charger while it sits in the parking lot at work? Then there is the winter.... :hmm:
40 mile commute may work if fully charged and no additional load.That's pretty awesome. Here the market is far, far from saturated. So the same vehicle is nearly 50% more.
http://www.hummelsnissan.com/certif...oines-ia-5253128a0a0a006474e5d85123f28ce6.htm
I just can't figure out how this could ever work for me, that's my issue. I have a 40 mile commute each way. What are the possibilities of a solar trickle charger while it sits in the parking lot at work? Then there is the winter.... :hmm:
You just need to convince your company to provide charging stations and parking for electric vehicles. Preferably "free" charging stations. :whiste:
40 mile commute may work if fully charged and no additional load.
That is the concern that I also have.
I need to look at a 50-60 mile at times and a cold weather draw restricts looking at anything that is less than a 150 warm weather range.
Watch out Tesla. Chevy is creeping up in your review mirror in an electric car of its own, and its going to cost less than half the price of your Model S. Set to hit the road some time in 2016, Chevys upcoming Bolt EV will start at about $30,000, the company confirmed Thursday.
But its not just the Bolt EVs low price thats a game changer. The carmaker also confirmed that drivers will be able to travel more than 200 miles before needing to recharge the Bolts batteries.
...