The Official Kaveri Review Thread (A10-7850K, etc)

[Abwx]

The 4770k measures total system draw as well, right?

Not sure how they got that number since Hardware.fr
has 105W total system with Fritzchess and a 4670K....

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/913-9/cpu-consommation-overclocking.html

Got it , it s optimized for AVX2 , actualy they changed
their bench once Haswell was released , that a particular
case where Haswell is advantaged on the bench and power
comsumption...

Our x264 test uses a build of the encoder that supports both AVX2 and FMA instructions. To test, we encoded a one-minute, 1080p .m2ts video using the following options:

--profile high --preset medium --crf 18 --video-filter resize:1280,720 --force-cfr​

There s no FMA used for video encoding , mind you,
and only one minute bench...

 

[Erenhardt]

The 7850 is not a progression over richland. Especially if you want to OC.

We are not looking at the same reviews then. Richland OCs from 4.4 to 4,5-4,6 GHz on CPU and from 800 to 1000 on graphics.
Kaveri goes from 4,0 to 4,4-4,5 on CPU and from 720 to 1000 on graphics.

 

[9enesis]

The 4770k measures total system draw as well, right? I don't see the point of even mentioning this. All of the CPUs tested were total power draw, and this chip should not exceed the 4770k, i'm thinking?

what exactly makes you think , that 4770k is some kind of etalon for every APU out there? What makes you think that 4770k did the test pulling it's max power draw ? What do you think , there is no significant difference in uArc intel to amd? do they use the same tech-process , same memory controller or...what exactly is your point?

if you want to blame AMD for TDP cheating (like it was with dullbozer) - go ahead - buy kaveri and do the measurements on the APU power rail -prove your point. and do not forget to post the results here as well as your measurements and test methods in details.

 

[9enesis]

I do, but a 14W difference between two low power systems (45W Richland and Kaveri) confirmed by 2 different hardware sites using different tests is nothing to cough at. Personally I wouldnt care about such minor difference but some people might care (hence why a certain user compared them to higher TDP Core i3s).

Look , 14W is a big gap ofcourse. But the point here is : no one here can tell if those 14W came from APU alone. period. it is just a speculation. Untill someone does proper measurements of APU alone.

 

[cbn]

There must be something wrong with their new TDP definition. Perhaps you could enlighten us AtenRa?

The 45 watt A8-7600 has a 51 watt delta between idle and load. After factoring in efficiency loss from the PSU (not sure what PSU is used because I don't know what review article those graphs came from) it is very likely that A8-7600 is falling within TDP spec.

Likewise the 65 watt A8-7600 and 95 watt A10-7850K have a 67 watt and 96 watt deltas between idle and load. After factoring in psu efficiency loss those certainly are falling within TDP spec.

Okay, now with that out of the way notice how much better the Intel processors do on their deltas compared to TDP spec! (Eg, The Core i3-3225 has a mere 40 watt delta between idle and full load despite it being a 55 watt TDP processor.)

 

[DaZeeMan]

Look, I get it. These chips have their niche for HTPC. I didn't say otherwise. But did you even bother analyzing the performance you get for 190$ with the 7850? When compared to the 6800k? Keep in mind the 6800k overclocks very well. The 7850 doesn't. And the 6800k is 50$-60$ cheaper while having similar or within 1% performance in most benchmarks.

Hey if you want to pay more for less, go for it. You can get similar performance with Richland, or even better, you can get a HW i3 + low end dGPU for about the same price. The 7850 is not a progression over richland. Especially if you want to OC. That could be okay if it were priced appropriately, but at 190$? It's too much for what you get IMO. The 7600 seems priced appropriately for what you get, but the 7850 just isn't.

Or you can get the 7850, pay more money while getting less, just because it has the AMD logo on it. It's all up to you.

$179.99 at Tiger Direct.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...569&CatId=7182

Also, this combo for $259 ($279 w/$20 rebate)
A10-7850K, Asus A55BM-E and 4 GB of Patriot Memory.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...082&CatId=7704

 

[Torn Mind]

would you recomend that for a mini itx build?

Kaveri would simply free up the PCI-e slot, which could be beneficial if there is another PCIe card that needs to be added to the build. But, an R7 250/7750 would destroy the Kaveri integrated graphics despite them having an identical number of stream processors.
And mini-ITX is not so limited that a 7870 or GTX 660 is infeasible.

 

[AtenRa]

Do i miss something here or what ??? How come the same system have lower Idle power at one graph and then higher Idle power at the second graph ???

Edit: heh, one is with dGPU the other with iGPU.

Edit 2 : The first graph illustrate that Kaveri at 45W TDP has smaller delta(42W) from Idle (43W) to Full Load CPU (85W) than 55W Core i3 Haswell Delta of 48W

 

[SPBHM]

$179.99 at Tiger Direct.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...569&CatId=7182

Also, this combo for $259 ($279 w/$20 rebate)
A10-7850K, Asus A55BM-E and 4 GB of Patriot Memory.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...082&CatId=7704

lol overpriced APU with 1600 single channel memory? also no USB3 or sataIII.

bad bad choice for the money.

 

[9enesis]

Kaveri would simply free up the PCI-e slot, which could be beneficial if there is another PCIe card that needs to be added to the build. But, an R7 250/7750 would destroy the Kaveri integrated graphics despite them having an identical number of stream processors.
And mini-ITX is not so limited that a 7870 or GTX 660 is infeasible.

yes , but what if i want a low profile case and low heat and noise output ? oh....buy an i3 ?:biggrin:

 

[Torn Mind]

$179.99 at Tiger Direct.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...569&CatId=7182

Also, this combo for $259 ($279 w/$20 rebate)
A10-7850K, Asus A55BM-E and 4 GB of Patriot Memory.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...082&CatId=7704

But if I'm building a Micro ATX or Mid Tower build, an Athlon II X4 760K + $120 7790 is going to give me more performance. A $100 R7 250 still gives me superior graphics performance yet with the same number of stream processors.

 

[DaZeeMan]

Do i miss something here or what ??? How come the same system have lower Idle power at one graph and then higher Idle power at the second graph ???

Edit: heh, one is with dGPU the other with iGPU.

What caught my eye on the Civ V power bench is that the AMD 5xxx, 6xxx and 7xxx APUs all use less power at idle than any of the Intel CPUs...

I see a similar trend on the first graph with the 5800K/6xxxK, with only 2 Intel CPUs matching/exceeding the 38w idle numbers. Dunno what's up with the 7600K's higher idle though...

 

[AtenRa]

But if I'm building a Micro ATX or Mid Tower build, an Athlon II X4 760K + $120 7790 is going to give me more performance. A $100 R7 250 still gives me superior graphics performance yet with the same number of stream processors.

Im sure it will, but again for the millionth time you cannot install that 7790 in to a slim SFF case and power consumption of the 760K + 7790 will be higher than the APU alone.

 

[AnandThenMan]

..snip...

Outstanding post. :thumbsup:

Im sure it will, but again for the millionth time you cannot install that 7790 in to a slim SFF case and power consumption of the 760K + 7790 will be higher than the APU alone.

The form factor/design potential with these processors is incredible.

 

[Torn Mind]

yes , but what if i want a low profile case and low heat and noise output ? oh....buy an i3 ?:biggrin:

Cases cannot change the power consumption of the parts. Mini-ITX will many fit $200 and lower GPUs and lower. CPU stock coolers suck at limiting noise and require an aftermarket for real noise reduction when loading the unit. And who said i3s are the only cheap alternative? The Athlon quad cores are even cheaper although there is no IGP on them.

Buy a R7 250 instead of a GTX660 or equivalent if you want to sacrifice performance for less noise and heat, since heat energy "generation" per second is measure in Watts. The CPU could be an i3, but not exclusively, as an A8 or Athlon "K" chip could also be used. The R7 250 is the discrete twin of the Kaveri APU, and further downclocking of its core clocks and mem clocks can result in it mimicking the Kaveri GPU component almost identically, but with the much faster GDDR5, provide a better gaming experience.

Like the Silverstone Sugo mini ITX cases or perhaps the Node 304, both of which provide excellent engineering to dissipate heat? Or are you talking about Thin Mini-ITX, in which Kaveri does work there but is not much different from its cheaper predecessors?
You think you'll have no noise without an aftermarket cooler?

 

[Torn Mind]

Im sure it will, but again for the millionth time you cannot install that 7790 in to a slim SFF case and power consumption of the 760K + 7790 will be higher than the APU alone.

So thin Mini-ITX(not mini-ITX) is where the big money lies now? How small of a case are you talking about? Someone looking for something even tinier than a Silverstone SG05? I know a 7770 can fit a Cooler Master Elite 120 case and still leave the hard drive bays easily serviceable.

I'm sure I can't enable Powertune or tweak settings(voltage, core clock, memclock) on a 7790 to reduce power consumption.

 

[Erenhardt]

But if I'm building a Micro ATX or Mid Tower build, an Athlon II X4 760K + $120 7790 is going to give me more performance. A $100 R7 250 still gives me superior graphics performance yet with the same number of stream processors.

But that way you are getting even slower CPU - which seems everyone have a problem with, not the graphics.

On top of that getting kaveri you may go dual graphics, and suddenly R7 250 (7730) is performing like 7770.
A8-7600 looks like a good deal. 7850k not so much.

 

[9enesis]

Cases cannot change the power consumption of the parts.

i did not say they can. i was talking about slim(low profile) ITX cases , where dGPU physically cannot fit in

You think you'll have no noise without an aftermarket cooler?

no , but still, it should be less noise AND heat rather than having two CPU+dGPU (non aftermarket) fans in a tinny box but yes...the performance will suffer.

 

[AtenRa]

So thin Mini-ITX(not mini-ITX) is where the big money lies now? How small of a case are you talking about? Someone looking for something even tinier than a Silverstone SG05? I know a 7770 can fit a Cooler Master Elite 120 case and still leave the hard drive bays easily serviceable.

I'm sure I can't enable Powertune or tweak settings(voltage, core clock, memclock) on a 7790 to reduce power consumption.

You can only use the HD7750 low profile in to certain slim SFF cases but then again you have to take care of the PSU, some of them only have 100-120W PSUs or lower and you cannot install the HD7750 + 100W CPU.

On the other hand, you can have the 45W TDP A8-7600 + HD7750 with a 120W PSU. Not only that, you may even enable CF when AMD will release the driver

 

[AtenRa]

Outstanding post. :thumbsup:

Thx but the message was already somewhere there scrambled among those graphs, I just made it come out in the open

The form factor/design potential with these processors is incredible.

Yeap, OEMs can make lots of cheap slim SFFs with great performance both in CPU and iGPU.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Thx but the message was already somewhere there scrambled among those graphs, I just made it come out in the open

Understood, but it's amazing how much better the information is when the background noise is removed.

 

[ElFenix]

There must be something wrong with their new TDP definition. Perhaps you could enlighten us AtenRa?

why aren't the idle powers the same in each chart?


edit: why would you use different systems in one test?

 

[positivedoppler]

Has anyone actually run BF4 with Kaveri yet? Is it everything AMD advertised?

 

[Abwx]

Has anyone actually run BF4 with Kaveri yet? Is it everything AMD advertised?

Hardware.fr did test it.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/913-10/gpu-dual-graphics-jeux.html

The review , wich should be posted on the first post :

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/913-1/kaveri-amd-a10-7850k-a10-7700k-test.html

 

[Gikaseixas]

Has anyone actually run BF4 with Kaveri yet? Is it everything AMD advertised?

Here some tests from Hardware Canucks (BF4 included). Best CPU with iGPU period