The Official Killer Instinct Thread

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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
I believe so. They have stated the entire game will be available as a pack as well. I am guessing it will be $40, but that is just a guess.

I am also wondering if you buy the whole game will it include any future DLC? I doubt it, but that would be nice.

i think we have to see what the whole 'seasons' things means beforehand though. because they did specifically you can purchase the 'full game with all seasons' so if 'seasons' means 'dlc packs' then it will probably be more.

i am assuming the game will be the full retail price of $60.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
The IGN video that I posted in the other thread talked about Kinect, but it also mentioned stuff about tournaments in the game. I wasn't exactly sure what they meant by it, but it sounded like you could setup Killer Instinct tournaments locally or over the network/Internet. It could be cool if Double Helix and Microsoft setup online tournaments for Killer Instinct that used a fairly detached setup (controlled by Azure) to allow large player pools. There are already some StarCraft tournaments that are held mostly online, so it's not like it hasn't been done before.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
The IGN video that I posted in the other thread talked about Kinect, but it also mentioned stuff about tournaments in the game. I wasn't exactly sure what they meant by it, but it sounded like you could setup Killer Instinct tournaments locally or over the network/Internet. It could be cool if Double Helix and Microsoft setup online tournaments for Killer Instinct that used a fairly detached setup (controlled by Azure) to allow large player pools. There are already some StarCraft tournaments that are held mostly online, so it's not like it hasn't been done before.

online tournaments will never be taken seriously though due to the nature of the beast and the precision needed for fighting games. that isn't to say that there CANT be any online tournaments, but imo they will never replace the offline tournament scene by any means.

the tournament mode in sf4 was a joke too.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
online tournaments will never be taken seriously though due to the nature of the beast and the precision needed for fighting games. that isn't to say that there CANT be any online tournaments, but imo they will never replace the offline tournament scene by any means.

the tournament mode in sf4 was a joke too.

And any real tournaments will be like how they ran the EVO online qualifier two years ago. It used a basic lobby system with the referee inviting both players and observing. The bracket was managed completely outside of the game.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Just watched that video and I think the idea of allowing people to hop online with a demo and basically do everything with the starting character can introduce people to fighting games or maybe reignite their passion for the genre that they had. Like they said, back in the SF2 days Fighters were huge. We all remember people gathered around the arcade cabs for MK, SF2 and some others. Everyone waiting to drop quarters in. Then we went home on our SNES or Genesis and played the same games (albeit not true arcade perfect translations). After arcades died, it seems that fighters kind of did up until a few years ago. I really think he had a good point when he mentioned saberwolf having mostly b+f moves because back is block and when people attack they tend to move in so block then move in and hit a bitton = special. That is perfect for people who know zero about qcf, hcf, fdf etc. It might get a few people interested in playing fighters again.

On the features being used with friend lists etc. I think the match making system is kind of interesting in a way. If you play KI but also play a ton of Forza it may match you up with someone that has a common interest in Forza as well. Maybe it'll help you strike up conversation and who knows, maybe you'll hop online in Forza too after talking to them. The best idea is for people who curse and get reported a lot. Match them up with a more mature player who is more highly skilled. That would take their attitude down a notch and maybe they'll realize that they aren't "the shit".

The idea of buying only certain characters can work depending on pricing. It may be really useful for players who are somewhat skilled or at least familiar with the characters and already picked their faves. Just buy them and that's all you need. Or for someone to play a character, then maybe next week buy another one and try them, maybe a couple weeks later try someone else. It may, again depending on pricing, allow someone who is not necessarily a fighting game fan...get into the game at a very low price point. I'm sure there's many people hesitant to buy a fighter at $60. I just hope that this method of release and pricing doesn't lead to a thousand matches where the guy only has Jago. That may begin to get boring. Easy way around that is to allow you to search out someone not playing as Jago if you don't wanna fight against him though.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I was hoping they would do it sort of like LoL does. Instead of just Jago, maybe a rotating pool of 3 or 4 characters. That way, you can at least try out different ones and decide which you want to buy. The problem with just having Jago is that you won't know how the other characters play and just have to go in blind to buy it. You may buy someone and hate that style, and never buy another character because of that.

The MM system also sounds kind of flawed. I don't care if the person has "the same interests as me". All I care about it that they are around my skill level in that particular game. That is why I like the ELO rating system for chess / pool / whatever.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
I was hoping they would do it sort of like LoL does. Instead of just Jago, maybe a rotating pool of 3 or 4 characters. That way, you can at least try out different ones and decide which you want to buy. The problem with just having Jago is that you won't know how the other characters play and just have to go in blind to buy it. You may buy someone and hate that style, and never buy another character because of that.

The MM system also sounds kind of flawed. I don't care if the person has "the same interests as me". All I care about it that they are around my skill level in that particular game. That is why I like the ELO rating system for chess / pool / whatever.

there is A LOT more that goes into "skill level" than a point system though, which is what i think their whole point is. the person on SF4 with 3kBP that has played the game 10x more than the other person with 3kBP most likely has a better grasp of the game and probably has more skill.

so what they are trying to do is set you up with another 3kBP person who has played around the same amount as you, instead of just randomly hooking you up with a 3kbp person who could be one that has played the game much more than you have.

or same thing if you play ONLY sf4 and maybe someone else plays sf4 and a ton of other fighters. i'd assume the guy who plays other fighters probably has a greater knowledge of fighters in general than someone who only plays sf4. so they could use that as another variable when matching.

i personally think it sounds like a great idea. i'd also assume they would have filters for all of this stuff just like they do in sf4.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I was hoping they would do it sort of like LoL does. Instead of just Jago, maybe a rotating pool of 3 or 4 characters. That way, you can at least try out different ones and decide which you want to buy. The problem with just having Jago is that you won't know how the other characters play and just have to go in blind to buy it. You may buy someone and hate that style, and never buy another character because of that.

The MM system also sounds kind of flawed. I don't care if the person has "the same interests as me". All I care about it that they are around my skill level in that particular game. That is why I like the ELO rating system for chess / pool / whatever.

How is it flawed? The whole point of them doing this is so you can build a friend list with cool people. Not everyone wants to sit with an empty list and just do random battles against strangers with everyone on mute all night. Some people actually may want to get to know people, talk strategy...work on moves etc. and hey, if they also play another game I enjoy I can be like "hey man...Thanks for the tips. I'm gonna go jump in Destiny. If you wanna join feel free."

They want people to have a list of good people they can join games with. They are trying to make it so you don't have to mute everyone and never talk. You know how people say XBL is filled with 12 year olds who scream and curse at you? Well, if you have a list of 200 people with similar interests as you...you never have to interact with those 12 year olds again.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
there is A LOT more that goes into "skill level" than a point system though, which is what i think their whole point is. the person on SF4 with 3kBP that has played the game 10x more than the other person with 3kBP most likely has a better grasp of the game and probably has more skill.

so what they are trying to do is set you up with another 3kBP person who has played around the same amount as you, instead of just randomly hooking you up with a 3kbp person who could be one that has played the game much more than you have.

or same thing if you play ONLY sf4 and maybe someone else plays sf4 and a ton of other fighters. i'd assume the guy who plays other fighters probably has a greater knowledge of fighters in general than someone who only plays sf4. so they could use that as another variable when matching.

i personally think it sounds like a great idea. i'd also assume they would have filters for all of this stuff just like they do in sf4.

The ELO system works great. Even the SF4 system isn't awful. Yes, a player with 1000 games that is 3k BP won't be as skill as a player with say 150 games at 3k BP, but given their current rating, one should be expected to win over the other and they each gain / loss a certain number based on that expectation. A 1500 BP vs a 3000 BP, for example, would have a large gain / loss for the 1500 / 3000 player if the 1500 player won and the opposite if the 1500 player lost. Now, this system isn't perfect, but the more games you play, the closer you get to your true rating.

How is it flawed? The whole point of them doing this is so you can build a friend list with cool people. Not everyone wants to sit with an empty list and just do random battles against strangers with everyone on mute all night. Some people actually may want to get to know people, talk strategy...work on moves etc. and hey, if they also play another game I enjoy I can be like "hey man...Thanks for the tips. I'm gonna go jump in Destiny. If you wanna join feel free."

They want people to have a list of good people they can join games with. They are trying to make it so you don't have to mute everyone and never talk. You know how people say XBL is filled with 12 year olds who scream and curse at you? Well, if you have a list of 200 people with similar interests as you...you never have to interact with those 12 year olds again.

It is flawed because in a competitive environment, friendships and such should not be a factor, especially fighters. The primary objective of the a match making is to pit you up against people of equal skill. Not pit you up against your friends. People who are playing in a ranked system, want to rank up. You do that by beating people ranked similarly to you. The only "advantage" would be if a stranger and a friend of yours who is also looking for a match are of the exact same rank, it would pick you friend. And while that sounds good from a player perspective, it actually isn't from a competitive. In order to get better, you have to increase your player pool, especially in the lower brackets. If you only play against the same people, you will plateau very quickly. The addition of other people ranked similarly, especially in games requiring mental strategies, will allow you to engage in a more diverse competitive environment. You will learn how to handle more styles and the mistakes you make will be punished in different ways. You will also not develop bad habits based on other people's bad ones (for the most part, which is a problem with online play in general in fighting games*). If you know your friends are bad at blocking certain set ups, you will go to those set ups more often. You will fall into a tendency to use things that are not safe or ideal because they continue to work. If your friends don't get better and stop you, you will have problems against someone who can. You will be, at best, out of practice in other set ups.

For noncompetitive, fun play; I do agree that playing with friends is probably more fun and can lead you to play other games with them. I have met a few guys on certain games, and after talking with them, found out we have similar interests in fighting games. We became friends the old fashioned way: actually talking to each other.

*online play usually (except for maybe at the highest level) is very forgiving when it comes to bad habits (like unsafe jumps and whiffing). You can easily develop bad habits that get exposed in tournament play.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
It is flawed because in a competitive environment, friendships and such should not be a factor, especially fighters. The primary objective of the a match making is to pit you up against people of equal skill. Not pit you up against your friends. People who are playing in a ranked system, want to rank up. You do that by beating people ranked similarly to you. The only "advantage" would be if a stranger and a friend of yours who is also looking for a match are of the exact same rank, it would pick you friend. And while that sounds good from a player perspective, it actually isn't from a competitive. In order to get better, you have to increase your player pool, especially in the lower brackets. If you only play against the same people, you will plateau very quickly. The addition of other people ranked similarly, especially in games requiring mental strategies, will allow you to engage in a more diverse competitive environment. You will learn how to handle more styles and the mistakes you make will be punished in different ways. You will also not develop bad habits based on other people's bad ones (for the most part, which is a problem with online play in general in fighting games*). If you know your friends are bad at blocking certain set ups, you will go to those set ups more often. You will fall into a tendency to use things that are not safe or ideal because they continue to work. If your friends don't get better and stop you, you will have problems against someone who can. You will be, at best, out of practice in other set ups.

For noncompetitive, fun play; I do agree that playing with friends is probably more fun and can lead you to play other games with them. I have met a few guys on certain games, and after talking with them, found out we have similar interests in fighting games. We became friends the old fashioned way: actually talking to each other.

*online play usually (except for maybe at the highest level) is very forgiving when it comes to bad habits (like unsafe jumps and whiffing). You can easily develop bad habits that get exposed in tournament play.

Did you watch the video? Really? You think they are only going to match you up with your friend list? It did not say that not at all. It only said that it will try to pair up people with common gaming interests hoping that you may make a new friend.

You think you should only play against people you hate and will never talk to? Fuck that...

Everything you said is ass backwards from what was actually talked about in the video. They are matching you based on skill but not just based on that alone. They will take other factors into account trying to create a friendly environment for players. They want you to be able to find players not only to rank up against (honestly I don't give two shits if I rank up as long as I do well and am having a good time) but to also become friends with. They want people to be social and expand their friend list and create a circle of friends on XBL to avoid the stereotype that "everyone on XBL is a dick or 12 years old acting like a thug and cursing and screaming so I mute everyone"

They want you to diversify as well. They want you to spread out your gaming by perhaps finding someone you can team with in another game from a random encounter on KI. They aren't and never said they are using your friend list to make matches.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
yeah i'm with cmdrdredd on this one, it just seems like you did not really watch the video and listen to what he actually said.

anyways, here is another video explaining some details about the mechanics of some elements of it. this game seems to be taking the metagame to a whole new level. i mean the whole concept of the counter breaker is a crazy concept that will make advanced play be pretty crazy. basically trying to read your opponent as they are about to make a combo breaker, so that you can extend your combo for 4 seconds of them locked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_gdw0LmDCk&feature=player_embedded
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
That is just crazy to me, the small intricacies of the game that on the surface aren't noticed but a skilled player can take advantage of.

Back on the SNES and genesis and even into the Dreamcast era, I would have friends who liked fighters over and we would practice stuff until we were sick of practicing. We got better and better each time though. Practicing on the CPU is alright but a human reacts differently so it is hard to replicate. This is one thing that I think a good online community can foster, a couple players who want to work on core mechanics. Like how do you counter this move or combo best? Try it on me and let me try to get out of trouble. Then you see if you can figure out the timing against me.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
yeah basically this game is like RPS on steroids when it comes to combos. oh, and there is some actual skill and execution involved lol. on paper, i do like how you can basically break ANYTHING, but it will have to be a few months after the game is out to see how that actually plays out.

the thing is, in the original KI game, you only had a very select few auto-doubles that you could do after an opener. so someone that knew the game and knew these openers and auto-doubles could EASILY break pretty much every combo you tried. and i don't know if you remember, but combo breakers did MASSIVE damage back then. like you would lose a whole health bar after 3-4 combo breakers done to you. you would have less health if you did a 4-5 hit combo then it got broken, than your opponent did.

now with the new KI, you can basically auto-double with anything - l,m, or h. so this opens up more of a RPS game now. on top of that, you can also do manuals to link the combos. and then you can do counter breakers, shadow breakers that basically interrupt the combo and you start your own, and you can even now break shadow moves.

it's just so much stuff and i hope it plays out well. so far it's looking pretty damn awesome.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Its a matter of finding the right balance. I think breaking out of every combo is a bit cheap if it is too easy.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
Its a matter of finding the right balance. I think breaking out of every combo is a bit cheap if it is too easy.

you could break out of every combo in both ki1 and ki2. there is no such thing as an 'unbreakable' combo in killer instinct in general, other than once an ultra has started.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
you could break out of every combo in both ki1 and ki2. there is no such thing as an 'unbreakable' combo in killer instinct in general, other than once an ultra has started.

But if it is too simple and can be done with no need for timing etc I find it to be a cheap mechanic. If you have to time it a certain way I have no prob. Been too long since I played the old games.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
But if it is too simple and can be done with no need for timing etc I find it to be a cheap mechanic. If you have to time it a certain way I have no prob. Been too long since I played the old games.

it's all timing based. they actually mention that a couple times in the mechanics video up above. you miss the timing or press the wrong breaker buttons, you are put in lockout mode for 3 seconds. the 4 second lockout is when your combo breaker gets counter broken.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
it's all timing based. they actually mention that a couple times in the mechanics video up above. you miss the timing or press the wrong breaker buttons, you are put in lockout mode for 3 seconds. the 4 second lockout is when your combo breaker gets counter broken.

Then I have no issue with it as stated. Sounds good to me.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I have been checking in every week looking for the killer instinct arcade stick pre-order at my local GameStop. If anyone sees it up somewhere like amazon I would appreciate the heads up.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,999
5,890
126
yeah i check every few days on amazon and gamestop too. it isn't even 100% going to be out at launch though.

and just fyi, it's not a "killer instinct" stick it's just te2. if they make some killer instinct edition, i'm going to be a sucker and pay the extra for it for sure.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
yeah i check every few days on amazon and gamestop too. it isn't even 100% going to be out at launch though.

and just fyi, it's not a "killer instinct" stick it's just te2. if they make some killer instinct edition, i'm going to be a sucker and pay the extra for it for sure.

I don't see why it wouldn't be out at launch. The game is a launch title. They have the sticks up and running already. They'd miss the bus if they wait IMO. A lot of people would impulse buy it for a new game.

So there won't be one that looks like this?



I have also seen this. I like this one better anyway. I'd just add a seimitsu spring to the stick.

 
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