The official Nexus 5 thread.

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

From the business reports I have read the Galaxy S4 isn't selling quite as well as Samsung has expected compared to the S3 sales. There have been rumors that due to the lower than expected sales of the S4 that Samsung might release the Galaxy S5 as early as January. A while back I remember reading that Samsung sold 50 million S3s in 10 months. The S4 has been out 6 months. I find it hard to believe that Samsung has almost sold as many S4s in 6 months as they did S3s in 10 months. I'm also shocked that they sold 24 million S4s in 3 months.

I wish these numbers were easily to find, but here's the link to the July article about 20 million S4s:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57...xy-s4-sales-top-20-million-units-report-says/

And another: http://www.sammobile.com/2013/07/24/samsung-shipped-23-4-million-galaxy-s4-units-in-q2-2013/

August figures were 5 million: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...nits-in-August-still-topped-the-ranks_id48345

I know that you're against $600 phones, and I'd love for phone prices to come down. Maybe Google can change that, but we'll have to see how that goes. It's not like they're continuing that too much by increasing the Nexus 5's price point and also not pushing cutthroat pricing with the Moto X.

I don't think this is like a $50,000 Honda Civic. Remember when Korean cars first came out like Kia and they were dirt cheap? Now you see Kias and Hyundais actively competing with Japanese cars, but they're not that much cheaper anymore. Not the $10,000 they used to bet.

You used to be able to get Civics and Corollas for dirt cheap too compared to the Accord/Camry. Even then over the years the prices have increased, and they're meant to be closer to their mid sized counterparts. Even the Fit and Sentra which are supposed to be at the bottom have gotten a lot better. I'd say today's Sentra matches the quality of a Corolla from 10 years ago.

Anyway, my point is that you could argue that the Camry and Accord could be cheaper, and so while you start off with some budget version of it, consumers want improvement, and so the lower end model creeps up in price too. Even the Korean competitors that were supposed to offer the same car for far less are now comparable in price. I think what you will see is that Google's not going to keep pushing $299 or $249 or $199. They see the popularity of the Nexus and the N5 will see a modest increase. Plus, with the global phone market, they have absolutely no reason to sell so low when the market will pay $600 for the phone without a question. The whole low price thing was only necessary to penetrate the US market which just does not respond well to unlocked phones.

 

[jimv1983]

I wish these numbers were easily to find, but here's the link to the July article about 20 million S4s:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57...xy-s4-sales-top-20-million-units-report-says/

And another: http://www.sammobile.com/2013/07/24/samsung-shipped-23-4-million-galaxy-s4-units-in-q2-2013/

August figures were 5 million: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...nits-in-August-still-topped-the-ranks_id48345

I know that you're against $600 phones, and I'd love for phone prices to come down. Maybe Google can change that, but we'll have to see how that goes. It's not like they're continuing that too much by increasing the Nexus 5's price point and also not pushing cutthroat pricing with the Moto X.

I don't think this is like a $50,000 Honda Civic. Remember when Korean cars first came out like Kia and they were dirt cheap? Now you see Kias and Hyundais actively competing with Japanese cars, but they're not that much cheaper anymore. Not the $10,000 they used to bet.

You used to be able to get Civics and Corollas for dirt cheap too compared to the Accord/Camry. Even then over the years the prices have increased, and they're meant to be closer to their mid sized counterparts. Even the Fit and Sentra which are supposed to be at the bottom have gotten a lot better. I'd say today's Sentra matches the quality of a Corolla from 10 years ago.

Anyway, my point is that you could argue that the Camry and Accord could be cheaper, and so while you start off with some budget version of it, consumers want improvement, and so the lower end model creeps up in price too. Even the Korean competitors that were supposed to offer the same car for far less are now comparable in price. I think what you will see is that Google's not going to keep pushing $299 or $249 or $199. They see the popularity of the Nexus and the N5 will see a modest increase. Plus, with the global phone market, they have absolutely no reason to sell so low when the market will pay $600 for the phone without a question. The whole low price thing was only necessary to penetrate the US market which just does not respond well to unlocked phones.

I think the reasonable, non ridiculous price of the Nexus phones is the biggest(or at least tied with the stock Android selling point) selling point of the phone. The Nexus 5 is going to start at $350( probably for a 16GB version) with the 32GB version likely being $400. I think Google should really push the Nexus phones. Mass market them to the average consumer.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I think the reasonable, non ridiculous price of the Nexus phones is the biggest(or at least tied with the stock Android selling point) selling point of the phone. The Nexus 5 is going to start at $350( probably for a 16GB version) with the 32GB version likely being $400. I think Google should really push the Nexus phones. Mass market them to the average consumer.

I don't mind that being the price, but if Google's pushing for a high end phone, it should not neuter them like they did the Nexus 4.

It will take some time for the OEMs to bring their prices down (it takes competition right?)... so until they see their sales start being eroded, they will have little reason to drop prices.

Remember how long PC laptops tried with their race to the bottom. Now we see high end ultrabooks coming back with similar Macbook pricing. So much for lower prices in the end right? I may have paid $1700 for my Dell Inspiron in 2004 and thought that was idiotic by 2008 given how laptop prices have fallen, but if I want a high end laptop today like a Samsung Series 9, I'm still gonna have to cough up about the same price.

 

[jimv1983]

I don't mind that being the price, but if Google's pushing for a high end phone, it should not neuter them like they did the Nexus 4.

It will take some time for the OEMs to bring their prices down (it takes competition right?)... so until they see their sales start being eroded, they will have little reason to drop prices.

Remember how long PC laptops tried with their race to the bottom. Now we see high end ultrabooks coming back with similar Macbook pricing. So much for lower prices in the end right? I may have paid $1700 for my Dell Inspiron in 2004 and thought that was idiotic by 2008 given how laptop prices have fallen, but if I want a high end laptop today like a Samsung Series 9, I'm still gonna have to cough up about the same price.

I could be wrong but it seems pretty clear to me that the manufacturers seem to be guilty of price fixing. Until that happens I don't think we will see true competition and price drops. I think the end of 2 year contracts and subsidized phones would really help that. Most people get subsidized phones and don't really think about the fact that they are paying higher prices monthly to pay for that cost because non-contracts from those carriers cost the same amount either way.

I think if the big two(AT&T and Verizon) would follow the lead of T-Mobile they would really have a better idea of how manufacturers really charge for phones. Hopefully this would upset people and help to drive down prices.

 

[AViking]

Samsung pulled in something like $50B and had a profit around $10B. What is probably worth noting is that the profit is after salaries and all other expenses.

I'm fine with them making their money. I'm simply saying that from a cost/benefit point of view I can do much more with $750 than buying an iphone or S4. It is not worth spending that much when I can get 95% of the same phone for $300. Those who just bought the $199 Nexus4 and didn't need LTE made out like bandits.

They have broken down iphones and estimated that the 5G costs $199 to make and the 5S costs $218 to make. Whatever they sell the thing for after that is profit. It pays their salaries and so on.

There is a thread about vacations in off topic and just to put things in perspective from my point of view I spent a month in Laos living large and spent $600.

After all how did I even get on this website and those like it? I found it because it made no sense to spend $1500 or more on a desktop that I could build myself for much less and higher performance.

Bang for your buck baby.

 

[dbk]

What are your usage habits like? Total time away from a charger? Total screen on time expected? Just curious of other users expectations of what they would like to see for battery life.

I don't use minutes as much.. I plan on porting my number over to GV and buying a Obi100 voip adapter for my home. I'm using a GS3 right now and charge my phone at home/work/car so I'm not too concerned about the battery.

 

[zerocool84]

Samsung pulled in something like $50B and had a profit around $10B. What is probably worth noting is that the profit is after salaries and all other expenses.

I'm fine with them making their money. I'm simply saying that from a cost/benefit point of view I can do much more with $750 than buying an iphone or S4. It is not worth spending that much when I can get 95% of the same phone for $300. Those who just bought the $199 Nexus4 and didn't need LTE made out like bandits.

They have broken down iphones and estimated that the 5G costs $199 to make and the 5S costs $218 to make. Whatever they sell the thing for after that is profit. It pays their salaries and so on.

There is a thread about vacations in off topic and just to put things in perspective from my point of view I spent a month in Laos living large and spent $600.

After all how did I even get on this website and those like it? I found it because it made no sense to spend $1500 or more on a desktop that I could build myself for much less and higher performance.

Bang for your buck baby.

What you're quoting is price of the materials, not the price to build it, market it, etc. There's a lot more to the cost of things than just the parts that make it.

 

[jimv1983]

What you're quoting is price of the materials, not the price to build it, market it, etc. There's a lot more to the cost of things than just the parts that make it.

Of course there is more to the cost than just the price of materials. However, the difference between the cost of materials and labor of about $225 and the retail cost of the phone of about $650 is $425. Of course some of that goes to things like development, advertising, legal fees, licensing, etc but MOST of it is profit. Of that extra $425 probably $200 or more is profit.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Geez, still no announcement?

 

[bgstcola]

Of course there is more to the cost than just the price of materials. However, the difference between the cost of materials and labor of about $225 and the retail cost of the phone of about $650 is $425. Of course some of that goes to things like development, advertising, legal fees, licensing, etc but MOST of it is profit. Of that extra $425 probably $200 or more is profit.

If the profits were so high, how come it's only apple and Samsung that makes real money?

 

[AViking]

What you're quoting is price of the materials, not the price to build it, market it, etc. There's a lot more to the cost of things than just the parts that make it.

I misread the article then. Regardless though a $350 phone has roughly the same parts as the $750 phone right?

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Geez, still no announcement?

i heard they scheduled an announcement on the 24th (thurs)

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

If the profits were so high, how come it's only apple and Samsung that makes real money?

How is Google making money on the Nexus 7?

 

[cbrunny]

N5 has LTE like G2, yes?

 

[jimv1983]

I misread the article then. Regardless though a $350 phone has roughly the same parts as the $750 phone right?

Yes.

 

[jimv1983]

If the profits were so high, how come it's only apple and Samsung that makes real money?

Because they sell more phones than the others. I thought that was obvious.

 

[jimv1983]

How is Google making money on the Nexus 7?

Google probably doesn't make any money on the Nexus devices. The profit goes to the manufacturer(Asus in the case of the Nexus 7). Nexus devices also make lower profits. Goggle doesn't sell Nexus devices to make a profit. They do it to show off the best of Android and try to attract people to the OS.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Google probably doesn't make any money on the Nexus devices. The profit goes to the manufacturer(Asus in the case of the Nexus 7). Nexus devices also make lower profits. Goggle doesn't sell Nexus devices to make a profit. They do it to show off the best of Android and try to attract people to the OS.

I don't doubt that. They might have even lost some money on the previous gen Nexus 7, which some people on this board slammed me fore. I agree, the point of the device is like a loss leader or low profit to simply get people on the ecosystem.

But the other thing to understand is that with 1 million activations a day, I highly doubt Google's bringing in that many people with the Nexus 7 either.

I was just making a jab at whatever individual said I was lying, but if a device maker can make a profit at $199, then Samsung must be making $10 billion off the S4s easily.

 

[code65536]

I could be wrong but it seems pretty clear to me that the manufacturers seem to be guilty of price fixing. Until that happens I don't think we will see true competition and price drops. I think the end of 2 year contracts and subsidized phones would really help that. Most people get subsidized phones and don't really think about the fact that they are paying higher prices monthly to pay for that cost because non-contracts from those carriers cost the same amount either way.

I think if the big two(AT&T and Verizon) would follow the lead of T-Mobile they would really have a better idea of how manufacturers really charge for phones. Hopefully this would upset people and help to drive down prices.

The contract model is exactly the problem that makes current smartphone pricing sustainable. If you're going to be paying out $500--and probably more--each contract term regardless of what phone you get or if you even get a phone, that sets a pretty firm price floor. And that's assuming you know how the contract-subsidy model really works. An astounding number of people don't know that and honestly believe that a $349 Nexus 4 costs more than a "$199" iPhone.

You can't get real price competition in the phone market until you kill the perverted contract-subsidy model.

 

[jimv1983]

The contract model is exactly the problem that makes current smartphone pricing sustainable. If you're going to be paying out $500--and probably more--each contract term regardless of what phone you get or if you even get a phone, that sets a pretty firm price floor. And that's assuming you know how the contract-subsidy model really works. An astounding number of people don't know that and honestly believe that a $349 Nexus 4 costs more than a "$199" iPhone.

You can't get real price competition in the phone market until you kill the perverted contract-subsidy model.

I agree. That is why I like T-Mobile's new business model. I just wish there coverage didn't stuck in the San Francisco bay area.

 

[Sid59]

I agree. That is why I like T-Mobile's new business model. I just wish there coverage didn't stuck in the San Francisco bay area.

where exactly?

 

[bgstcola]

Because they sell more phones than the others. I thought that was obvious.

But if profits are high you don't need to sell many phones to make money. Isn't htc in trouble? I know that they don't sell as many phones as Samsung and apple but still they shouldn't be in trouble if the profits were that high. I think you underestimate the expenses.

 

[AViking]

But if profits are high you don't need to sell many phones to make money. Isn't htc in trouble? I know that they don't sell as many phones as Samsung and apple but still they shouldn't be in trouble if the profits were that high. I think you underestimate the expenses.

They could be mismanaged. Maybe they are taking too much money out for salary.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Words

The problem was S3 was simply too good for the masses, and came exactly where people can start replacing their outdated small screened ~2010 androids. Then came the Note 2 and there simply isn't a big as S3 consumer base left for the S4.

 

[antef]

I agree. That is why I like T-Mobile's new business model. I just wish there coverage didn't stuck in the San Francisco bay area.

If you like that model but don't like TMo coverage then do Straight Talk. You'll get AT&T's coverage including their LTE network and 2.5 GB of data for $45. Can't beat it.