It may not be critical, but is it a downgrade? Yes. You're saying it's ok for you, but is it actually better that you use HSPA over LTE? I highly doubt it. Maybe T-Mobile's LTE network is still young, but I can't really see why someone should be using HSPA over LTE on AT&T unless of course they're prone to going over their data limits easily in which case that would still be a problem on HSPA.
HSPA on AT&T is a downgrade compared to LTE.
On T-Mobile's DC-HSPA+ 42 compared to LTE, not really.
Or maybe it was AT&T that didn't fully invest in their HSPA+ network like the rest of the world did with DC-HSPA 42 while AT&T remained on mostly HSPA+ 14 and HSPA+ 21?
As for the iPhone, yeah, it sucks that it's only 16gb. If I had my way I'd get a 32gb iPhone at least, but work's not going to give me anything more. But at least there's a 64gb option if someone really wanted that. As I said before, if you really want that $249 Nexus go for it, but I'll gladly pay the $599 for a flagship model with 64gb storage, LTE, etc. and no compromises. I'm sure there's many other people who bought the Nexus 4 who will agree that they would easily have paid $100 more for more storage, better battery, LTE, etc.
The fact that you think that there wouldn't be any compromise in a $599 flagship model of any phone is in itself laughable.
I would have paid $100 more for better storage, better battery, and LTE if such a thing ever existed. Too bad it didn't.
But I absolutely would not pay $100 extra for
only slightly more storage(16GB vs 32GB iPhone),
or $200-300 for
only extra battery(in the case of LG G2 with 3000mAh and this potential Nexus 5 with 2300mAh).
And just because I wouldn't mind paying extra for more features that I would have preferred, does not automatically mean I'm going to get the Optimus G, G2,(or whatever phone) over it's Nexus equivalent in protest either.
I'm not arguing that nonremovable sd card and battery automatically equates to better build quality or smaller form factor. Are you saying that you can design JUST as small of a phone with removable batteries and SD card? I don't get what finding an exception proves. I was never saying there aren't any exceptions. I was just saying that it's possible to improve build quality and decrease thickness by going non-removable. Are you saying if Samsung went with a nonremovable option the GS4 would be fatter? Or are you saying had HTC built the One with removable storage and battery that it would be better built and thinner? None of us have the answer to that because all we have are apples to oranges comparisons by finding one exception to the rule, and we can't say what the iPhone would have been with removable versus non-removable battery. Anyway, this is besides the point.
Yes, I am. And finding an exception exactly proves that designing such a thing isn't impossible.
I agree with you on the last part. I only brought it up because you automatically assumed that the benefits of designing a phone without removable battery and SD card means smaller, thinner, and better build quality which is simply not true.
Almost anything can be designed if you have enough bright engineers and designers. There is absolutely no proof that removable battery and SD card means a smaller and thinner device, or better build quality.
Perhaps, but basically the $200 tablet market is just Amazon and Google. Who really competes at that range? Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 and its 1024x600 resolution? You can probably remember how many threads slamming 1024x600 tablets and why anyone would buy anything else than a Nexus 7.
I think it's pretty hard to compete at this level when the $199 Nexus 7 from 2012 costs $185 or so to build. How do you expect anyone to get close?
If it's hard to compete at that level then why isn't it hard for manufacturers to compete at the $300-400 level for the Nexus phones. Those same people slamming 1024x600 resolution tablets are also slamming the Galaxy S4 mini, HTC One mini, HTC One S, and other "mini" phones with crappy specs that are being sold for more than the price of a Nexus phone. And a lot of those "mini" phones come with gimped storage too...Not 32GB standard.
I am one of those slamming 1024x600 resolution tablets, and I will also be one of those slamming crappy phones. The 2012 Nexus 7 came with gimped storage options...Those Samsung tablets with crap resolutions did not.
The same way ASUS is able to sell their 7" Memopad for $160. Do you really believe that ASUS sells their 7" Memopad at a loss or at cost?
Okay, they may be critical, you're right, but the notification LED is not really a standard yet. We have one manufacturer (Moto) arguing its not necessary and there are better ways. We have other manufacturers half putting them in (HTC), we have others embracing it. It's still a confusing strategy. While it's critical, it's not gimping a phone in the sense that there isn't some sort of universal expectation of an LED notification light.
On the other hand, if you cut storage to 8gb/16gb, I'd say that's pretty obvious gimping. Even if you're ok with 8gb it's far below the norm, so yes that to me is neutering the phone specs. So is cutting out LTE when other flagship phones have it at that point in time.
There isn't some sort of universal expectation for LTE(unless maybe if you're on Verizon which already has LTE plastered all over the place). The only reason you see it is because US carriers are the ones demanding it, and not the consumers. I'm sure if Samsung is able to release a US GS4 on Exynos Octa without LTE like they did in Europe(and virtually everywhere else in the world besides Korea) without the US carrier subsidy model they would have done so in house rather than pay Qualcomm to use their SOC for LTE support.
There also isn't some sort of universal expectation for storage size. If there was, then you would only see one storage size and not Apple and other manufacturers offering 3-4 different storage sizes, or only 1 storage size with a variable MicroSD option. I know plenty of people that 32GB storage is not enough for them, and like wise 64GB is not enough. I also know plenty of people that 8/16GB storage is enough for them. There isn't some sort of universal expectation of storage size that is enough for everybody or even most people.
I'm not okay with 8GB at all.
I don't like 16GB, but I may be open to it depending on the compromises
32GB is my "preferred" choice, but I'm not paying a $100 premium for that over a 16GB version. No way in hell.
I don't really understand you here. The complaints about the Nexus battery are not because its too small. It's sized just fine against the GS3 and HTC One X. The performance was just less than stellar, and worse than its Optimus G counterpart.
The GS3 and HTC One X does not have anywhere near the same engine. Not the same CPU/GPU combination. Feel free to look it up. If the Nexus 4 had the same engine as the GS3 and HTC One X, you'd have a point. The Maxx and other Moto phones released this year have the same engine. The Maxx HD and the GS3 from last year had the same engine.
Regarding the Optimus G, you had to stop what you were doing to cool off rather than throttle. How is that better in comparison than the Nexus 4? Brian couldn't run the GLBenchmark test on the Optimus G back to back without it crashing or choosing not to run at all. He had to do them one at a time and wait in between.
So you have 2 Honda Accords that drive 60MPH...
With one of them(Optimus G), you can accelerate to 80MPH but you have to stop the car to cool of and idle the engine for a bit otherwise you will get into an accident. With the other(Nexus 4), you can accelerate to 80MPH but the engine will automatically throttle to 40MPH to cool after a bit instead of requiring you to stop the car and idle the engine or risk getting into an accident like the first car does. Now with both of them, you do have the option of modding the engine to run on liquid nitrogen(running the benchmarks in the freezer in Brian's case) and both will be fine.
How exactly is your example with the Optimus G better than the Nexus 4?
The Maxx is not a regular phone. The regular phone is the Droid Razr or Droid Ultra (whatever the hell it is now). The fact is Motorola makes it a separate phone. It's a phone with the intent of having one of the largest if not the largest integrated batteries. Like I said, if you want to compare batteries, go for it, but it's no surprise the Maxx will win, which means there's no point in saying a phone sucks because the Maxx is better.
Do you also believe that the Accord EX-L V6 and the Accord EX-L V6 with built-in navigation are not the same vehicle?
Do you also believe that the different Tesla models are not in the same category?
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/battery
According to you then, the Tesla Model S60 is "special" from the Tesla Model S85 which is "special" from the Tesla Model SP85.
You're using an apples to oranges comparison though. What I'm saying is you can't compare the petrol versions of the Accord and Camry and then pull the hybrid version and say "well HA!" It's like when the Accord fan says the 2013 Accord gets better mileage than the 2013 Camry, and then the Camry fan says, well the Camry Hybrid does even better, so therefore your Accord is nothing. Okay, so what's the point? The Hybrid obviously does better than the petrol version in gas efficiency, so what did you prove there? Yes it's a regular car that's sold at the dealership too, so what?
I'm not talking about $300 versus $600. I'm talking about the Maxx. If I say a phone is good in battery life, you will bring up the Note 2 and Maxx. I've already shown you the Note 2 is a different class and that's not a good comparison. You then bring up the Maxx. But I've already shown you that the Maxx is a different kind of phone. It wins in battery, but it doesn't necessarily prove the phone you're comparing it against sucks in battery.
The Maxx is not like an Accord gas vs. hybrid debate. The main part of a car is the engine. The main part of a phone is
NOT the battery.
Accord gas and hybrid doesn't have the same engine. The Maxx and other phones(including several others from Moto themselves) do.
If anything it's more like both of them are hybrids, except one comes with an enlarged battery pack by default as an already included "tech package" that cannot be separated which you pay more for so you don't have to buy more gas, while others ship with crap batteries with the ability for you to buy a better battery pack on the open market, and others come with crap proprietary battery packs that are irreplaceable. They all have the same engine, they all have the same major specs besides battery pack. They still have the same Android OS version and SoC running underneath.
You have proven absolutely nothing about the Maxx being a "different" kind of phone from others. It's still running the same exact Android OS version and Snapdragon 600 engine underneath as some other phones are. The only difference is a different coat of paint(TouchWiz/Sense/MotoBlur/Stock and others), a larger battery pack, and some other useless options(insert TouchWiz and Sense gimmicks here) like 20" Chrome alloy wheels and other stupid things that some people pay extra for.
In the end I don't get WHAT you're trying to say. Are you trying to say the Nexus is not gimped/neutered? I really don't get why you're just trying to jump on a few lines out of context like what I said about non-removable SD cards and stuff.
I'm saying
ALL phones are gimped/neutered. Whether intentionally or unintentionally is another question that needs to be separately answered and is not the same question.
But
ALL phones are gimped/neutered. That part is a fact and inseparable.