The Official Xbox One Thread

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Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
Probably won't be very practical because you'll be introducing additional lag I would imagine.

I wouldn't think the additional lag would be noticeable but I don't have much experience with this type of stuff. The pass-through should just be that, right? I can't imagine it's doing any extra processing to the video (assuming that's what you're talking about).
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
Um. You obviously need service, which means you have a DVR, which every Uverse customer gets. Those were a given. You do not need another STB to feed the 360 is what I mean. If it's enabled on your account, plug it into the gateway, and it is now an STB.

Same here in Chicago with the old lines. Uverse has fiber lines feeding the neighborhood nodes, so signal is phenomenal up to that point. At the node it transitions to the old copper that's been in service since who knows when. Uverse is IPTV which I'm sure you know, so it all streams. The actual TV streaming portion has nothing to do with your data cap, regardless if it's regular TV, movie rentals, on demand, etc.

That's not what AT&T told me. They said internet and Tv all together had a 250GB cap which if you surpassed it they throttle you terribly. TV would freeze and lag and internet would be very slow.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
That's not what AT&T told me. They said internet and Tv all together had a 250GB cap which if you surpassed it they throttle you terribly. TV would freeze and lag and internet would be very slow.

So if you watch a lot of TV you will always have laggy and shitty service? That is smart to sell TV service you can't use...all the more reason I accept Comcast over that garbage.
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
So if you watch a lot of TV you will always have laggy and shitty service? That is smart to sell TV service you can't use...all the more reason I accept Comcast over that garbage.
well your average consumer doesn't use a lot of internet bandwidth that's probably why they did that. When I went a month with downloaded anything and just web browsing Tv service was great and if I remember correctly it only uses about 50GB of the Cap
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,021
5,898
126
Probably won't be very practical because you'll be introducing additional lag I would imagine.

why would you imagine that? modern AVR's and HDMI hubs pass through HDMI signals and don't introduce lag. i would imagine that a console with newer technology would introduce any lag simply because of HDMI signals being passed.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I used the wrong word so hopefully that isn't what you guys are going off of as I didn't realize I typed lag instead of latency (even though can refer to the same thing). Also, I am ONLY referring to another game system being plugged into the X1 as having "more".

Any length of cable introduces latency. Putting an additional HDMI (360) into another HDMI (X1) into another HDMI (Reciever) into another HDMI (TV) will have more latency than just 360 into receiver or straight to tv and using ARC (I use the latter).

Even turning all post processing off (on your receiver) and using gaming modes doesn't eliminate all of it. Doesn't mean it won't be playable, but in many cases it won't be, just depends on the complete set up and the individuals tolerance.

If the X1 is introducing an overlay, I highly doubt it is just passthru. It should work great as a cablebox passthru which doesn't rely on twitch timings, but probably not as a game passthru. Again, your mileage may vary.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,021
5,898
126
yeah i've never experienced any latency/lag from adding an AVR in the mix of my gaming. and i'm hyper sensitive to input lag because i play fighters and 1/60th of a second (1 frame) can be the difference between losing and winning.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
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Then you must have an amazing AVR because any receiver will introduce it, especially if it's doing any processing. The one on mine was horrible even when it was shut off, granted I'm using a PC and not a console.

Also, isn't there some sort of timer adjustment on the 360 for fixing those issues? If so, that may eliminate that.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,021
5,898
126
Then you must have an amazing AVR because any receiver will introduce it, especially if it's doing any processing. The one on mine was horrible even when it was shut off, granted I'm using a PC and not a console.

Also, isn't there some sort of timer adjustment on the 360 for fixing those issues? If so, that may eliminate that.

well i do have a pretty amazing avr, and it has a game mode, as does my tv and projector (both of which i've hooked it up to) and there is no noticeable lag over when i had my ps3 or 360 hooked up directly to my "lagless" monitor.

most game modes turn off most of, if not all, of the post processing stuff. if i forgot to change it after watching a movie, and keep my avr in movie mode, there is noticeable lag to me.

so no, not "any receiver" will introduce lag. i don't even know what you are talking about when you say "even when mine is shut off it is horrible" that makes no sense, since it's doing absolutely 0 processing. it's simply doing a pass through, like adding an HDMI extension cord.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Same here in Chicago with the old lines. Uverse has fiber lines feeding the neighborhood nodes, so signal is phenomenal up to that point. At the node it transitions to the old copper that's been in service since who knows when. Uverse is IPTV which I'm sure you know, so it all streams. The actual TV streaming portion has nothing to do with your data cap, regardless if it's regular TV, movie rentals, on demand, etc.

AT&T was telling me they just redid my entire grid and everyone gets "a dedicated line to the hub". But, they still have a data cap. I think Comcast is going to introduce one soon (they are testing it in AZ). I have been trying to cut back on data usage, but even when trying I am around 300gb a month.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,241
638
126
AT&T was telling me they just redid my entire grid and everyone gets "a dedicated line to the hub". But, they still have a data cap. I think Comcast is going to introduce one soon (they are testing it in AZ). I have been trying to cut back on data usage, but even when trying I am around 300gb a month.

Yeah it used to be in my area too a 250gb data cap from comcast until so many people complained. They suspended it but I would be horrified if it came back. I download lots of games, watch and stream movies through my ps3, work from home sometimes..I would not be surprised if i went past the cap in less than half a month.

If that was the case I would be screwed because Comcast is the only provider in my area where my apartment complex is not set up for fios.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,456
61
101
That's not what AT&T told me. They said internet and Tv all together had a 250GB cap which if you surpassed it they throttle you terribly. TV would freeze and lag and internet would be very slow.

well your average consumer doesn't use a lot of internet bandwidth that's probably why they did that. When I went a month with downloaded anything and just web browsing Tv service was great and if I remember correctly it only uses about 50GB of the Cap

This is entirely incorrect. I'm not sure who at AT&T told you this, but they're wrong (I'm assuming some low level overseas phone rep). IPTV traffic has zero impact on your data cap, period, and I know this firsthand.

Besides, what company would sell you IPTV and then throttle/degrade/limit it? It's not logical. If your TV had an issue, it wasn't cap related.


AT&T was telling me they just redid my entire grid and everyone gets "a dedicated line to the hub". But, they still have a data cap. I think Comcast is going to introduce one soon (they are testing it in AZ). I have been trying to cut back on data usage, but even when trying I am around 300gb a month.

This is true, AT&T bandwidth isn't shared like Comcast/other cable companies. Easy subscriber has a dedicated line to the hub, as well as dedicated copper from hub to the house. If you're home using your internet in the evening when everyone else is, your connection won't be affected like it can be with cable.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
This is true, AT&T bandwidth isn't shared like Comcast/other cable companies. Easy subscriber has a dedicated line to the hub, as well as dedicated copper from hub to the house. If you're home using your internet in the evening when everyone else is, your connection won't be affected like it can be with cable.

This is what some sales people told me, while walking around my complex. (How they got in the building, I'll never know). Sadly, their internet is abysmally slow for the price (18down / 5 up) and they have a data cap. No thanks. I'll stick with the lesser of the two evils (Comcrap) and pray one day I can get FiOS or Charter moves into the area.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Its all thanks to the monopolies they have over us. One company in an area pretty much controls every cable line or every phone line. If there was real competition maybe we would get faster speeds and better service with no caps because they would be fighting to get/keep our business. As it is, in most areas, you have only one choice for cable. That just sucks for us.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
why would you imagine that? modern AVR's and HDMI hubs pass through HDMI signals and don't introduce lag. i would imagine that a console with newer technology would introduce any lag simply because of HDMI signals being passed.

If the X1 is capable of using a sidebar when the video input is up, then it has to be doing some of its own processing on the video. However, if they did it a smart way, it should be a fairly quick pass-through when there's nothing to modify.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
If the X1 is capable of using a sidebar when the video input is up, then it has to be doing some of its own processing on the video. However, if they did it a smart way, it should be a fairly quick pass-through when there's nothing to modify.

I wonder how this really works. I look forward to some technical write up on this functionality to understand what the system is doing and how much processing this takes.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,021
5,898
126
If the X1 is capable of using a sidebar when the video input is up, then it has to be doing some of its own processing on the video. However, if they did it a smart way, it should be a fairly quick pass-through when there's nothing to modify.

it doesn't have to be doing any processing on the input signal coming in at all. it's simply displaying an overlay. it really has nothing to do with the video signal coming in at all.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I wonder how this really works. I look forward to some technical write up on this functionality to understand what the system is doing and how much processing this takes.

They were using some API in the OS, but I don't remember the name. I've always toyed with trying to make an HTPC that did something similar. Coding some kind of app that accepted multiple inputs of video / sound and managed them in individual screens.

It shouldn't introduce any lag because it is just accepting the video and displaying it in a smaller area. The OS should allocate x,x to y,y for input 1 and z,z-a,a for input 2.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Contrary to what you may think, if they are adding ANYTHING, there is processing and introduces a delay on the output. I highly doubt they are using bleeding edge top of the line technology for an overlay. For "broadcasts" it is not noticeable. For gaming it could be (when you add in the additional connection as well), it's possible it's not noticeable enough to make a difference.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Contrary to what you may think, if they are adding ANYTHING, there is processing and introduces a delay on the output. I highly doubt they are using bleeding edge top of the line technology for an overlay. For "broadcasts" it is not noticeable. For gaming it could be (when you add in the additional connection as well), it's possible it's not noticeable enough to make a difference.
Just because they are not using "bleeding edge top of the line technology" in their hardware doesn't mean they aren't doing something fancy in the code. The team engineering this isn't just a bunch of code monkeys who don't know their stuff.


small article where the ki devs talk very briefly about how the ram and tech in the x1 have helped them achieve some parts of their game.

http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-8gb...cts-hypervisor-is-awesome-killer-instinct-dev

And... link blocked of course. =(
 
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