The Official Xbox One Thread

Page 235 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Okay, I can confirm, there is a change. I went into the game, Xbone is setup to 1080p, I'm at the character selection screen, it looks like the first image with Jago.

I press the Xbox logo button, the game freezes for a second, note the screen doesn't go black, but you can see it's taking a "buffer" style image for the metro UI, and in that split second when that image is frozen it most certainly looks like the second screen showing Jago.

The jaggies and color wash are present.

Seeing it in action though, I will assume this is capturing a still image for a thumbnail like preview for the UI Metro, thus it is lower quality (probably hard coded into the game.)

But right now I can confirm I see both examples of the two images shown. I doubt I can time it fast enough to capture a picture with my phone, but it is clearly there.

I will now test by setting the console to 720p.

Right but are you getting the heavily crushed blacks? I'm not debating the UI thumbnail is a difference image. I'm asking whether or not the game has severely crushed blacks because I am not getting that image at all.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Right but are you getting the heavily crushed blacks? I'm not debating the UI thumbnail is a difference image. I'm asking whether or not the game has severely crushed blacks because I am not getting that image at all.

I just set it to 720p and it looked the same.

I guess the issue at hand is why does the image change when you press the Xbox logo button? Clearly it changes, and I can say in both 720p and 1080p I see both examples from the article.

If one is crushed, when comparing it to the other, yes it most certainly is. Is that the art direction they took for the game, well that I can't argue.

BUT, the question is why the image even alters to the point where it is clearly two different end results? One with darker tones and AA and one with lighter tones and no AA?

Either way, on my end, 720p or 1080p actual game play looked the same, but I can't deny pressing the Xbox Logo button did flash a completely different image that is represented in that article.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
I didn't read all the posts, but it is the X1's scaler that does do the crushed blacks and over blown whites, along with some forum of FXAA I believe. Devs can turn it off, DICE (BF4) said it when it was first brought up right around launch once they went digging to figure out why the blacks were crushed in the first place.

People have found, if you select the X1 to only be able to output at 720 it will not use the scaler.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I just set it to 720p and it looked the same.

I guess the issue at hand is why does the image change when you press the Xbox logo button? Clearly it changes, and I can say in both 720p and 1080p I see both examples from the article.

If one is crushed, when comparing it to the other, yes it most certainly is. Is that the art direction they took for the game, well that I can't argue.

BUT, the question is why the image even alters to the point where it is clearly two different end results? One with darker tones and AA and one with lighter tones and no AA?

Either way, on my end, 720p or 1080p actual game play looked the same, but I can't deny pressing the Xbox Logo button did flash a completely different image that is represented in that article.

So you are getting the same result I am. 720p doesn't "fix" the crushed blacks during gameplay as was claimed. I simply don't see the crushed blacks though. The game is dark sure, but it's not like the images I posted.

So to clarify the picture you see is precisely like the top images? Dark to the point where you can see nothing? If so I wonder why I don't see that, I'll have to test a different TV tomorrow and see if it's my set. It may be going bad for all I know at this point.

Thanks though. I'll see if anyone else chimes in.

I didn't read all the posts, but it is the X1's scaler that does do the crushed blacks and over blown whites, along with some forum of FXAA I believe. Devs can turn it off, DICE (BF4) said it when it was first brought up right around launch once they went digging to figure out why the blacks were crushed in the first place.

People have found, if you select the X1 to only be able to output at 720 it will not use the scaler.

Yet both of our results show that 720p doesn't change the black levels or contrast at all. If the blacks are crushed, they are crushed either way during gameplay. I can force it but my normal TV settings don't crush anything. I don't know why that is right now. Once I test on another TV maybe I'll find something. The article said the entire picture brightens when you set the console to 720p. This isn't true I've found.
 
Last edited:

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
I didn't read all the posts, but it is the X1's scaler that does do the crushed blacks and over blown whites, along with some forum of FXAA I believe. Devs can turn it off, DICE (BF4) said it when it was first brought up right around launch once they went digging to figure out why the blacks were crushed in the first place.

People have found, if you select the X1 to only be able to output at 720 it will not use the scaler.

Well, from my experiment I can see there is another render target - some where. Whether that render target is at all indented for actual game play using KI as my only example - no. I could not get the second image to stick in actual game play. I didn't tinker with the Limited/Full because that would introduce more variation.

There is clearly something happening as AA is applied when you're actually in the game. I'm glad you mentioned FXAA. This reminds me of my attempts to capture MLAA on screenshots.

Since MLAA is a post processing effect, you can't capture it at the raw buffer. Makes me think when you press the Xbox Logo it captures a raw frame before any processing (ie no AA) if there is color distortion afterwards, that is for the tin foil hatters to figure out.

All I can conclude is using KI, I saw both images from the article. Unless Microsoft or Double Helix want to elaborate more, any post processing effects are up in the air.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Quick test of a second TV is closer to having crushed blacks. Guess my main TV is either going bad or the settings are out of sorts. I'll try adjusting it tomorrow and see if it's settings or the screen going bad. It does have a couple bad pixels these days so I was thinking about replacing it anyhow. So if I can't adjust it through the settings I'm not going to bother spending any money on it, just replace it. I know if I forced it to crush it would crush but it was crushing everything and gave a terrible image overall. If I can't get it sorted I will have to expedite a new TV purchase I think.

Still an interesting test and it enlightened me to issues with my set.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
So...how does the IR blaster work in the Xbone, and where is it? There was no IR cable included in the box, but my devices are being controlled fine (mostly...sometimes the TV and/or sat box aren't being powered on/off correctly and things get out of sync).

I guess I don't quite understand how it's hitting the IR receivers on my other devices when everything faces the same way out of the media cabinet. Are the IR signals just bouncing off walls or something?
 
Last edited:

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2004
5,122
52
91
So...how does the IR blaster work in the Xbone, and where is it? There was no IR cable included in the box, but my devices are being controlled fine (mostly...sometimes the TV and/or sat box aren't being powered on/off correctly and things get out of sync).

I guess I don't quite understand how it's hitting the IR receivers on my other devices when everything faces the same way out of the media cabinet. Are the IR signals just bouncing off walls or something?

The kinect is the blaster and it is so bright it bounces it off the entire room.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
The kinect is the blaster and it is so bright it bounces it off the entire room.

Ah, that makes sense. Some of the articles I read used ambiguous wording.

The included IR blaster controls your set-top box and tells it to switch between channels based on your commands.

I couldn't tell if he meant included in the xbone/kinect, or if there was supposed to be a cable included for the IR out port on the back.
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
OOS. At the very least, whatever stock Amazon has, people are purchasing. Considering the Xbox One is $100 more expensive than the PS4, it's a pretty good sign. If people didn't want it, we'd have another Wii U on our hands. And since none of the games really make you need to have a console on day one, people must be buying into the faith that Microsoft will deliver a solid console lineup over time.

Or just Titanfall. Titanfall, Titanfall, Titanfall.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
OOS. At the very least, whatever stock Amazon has, people are purchasing. Considering the Xbox One is $100 more expensive than the PS4, it's a pretty good sign. If people didn't want it, we'd have another Wii U on our hands. And since none of the games really make you need to have a console on day one, people must be buying into the faith that Microsoft will deliver a solid console lineup over time.

Or just Titanfall. Titanfall, Titanfall, Titanfall.

I wonder how many people are still looking for a PS4 and can't get anything so they just opt to get the XB1 for the holidays. It works in MS' favor for the US market.
 

Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
OOS. At the very least, whatever stock Amazon has, people are purchasing. Considering the Xbox One is $100 more expensive than the PS4, it's a pretty good sign. If people didn't want it, we'd have another Wii U on our hands. And since none of the games really make you need to have a console on day one, people must be buying into the faith that Microsoft will deliver a solid console lineup over time.

Or just Titanfall. Titanfall, Titanfall, Titanfall.

It's probably a little bit of all of that. In spite of the huge RRoD issues Microsoft has done a solid job keeping the 360 viable by sheparding developers toward it. I can't imagine the Xbox One to be any different. Personally, I see the XB1 one having success on the same level as the 360 or even more. The only difference this gen is I think Sony will also command a bit of well earned respect.

Whatever the case may be, it looks like content will be the ultimate driving factor and not raw hardware specs, as it should be. People aren't buying XB1's because it's hardware is better, because the PS4 has them beat for the most part. The XB1 has a couple of non performance oriented hardware advantages, such as Wifi Direct and HDMI-Pass Thru, but neither are a huge deal by themselves.

Honesty, I bought my XB1 because in general my most memorable gaming experiences from last gen came from the 360 (I owned PS3 and 360) and I'm confident in MS's ability to attract developers. The HDMI-In and multimedia functionality is just icing on the cake. I was worried initially that I might regret my decision, but that was not the case.
 

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
Be careful Antaeus, when i said last gen wasn't even close, I got blasted, lol. Microsoft IMO owns the market, but i agree this gen may be closer. XBOX Live was untouched for so long by PSN.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
The difference this time is sony has had better developer relations during the development of the ps4. After the revelation about back door deals with EA for titanfall and the reaction of the developer, it appears MS is content to toss money at companies the same as always. The problem with that is the ps4 has enjoyed better PR leading up to launch so a more favorable mindset can push developers away from Xbox exclusivity. Especially if they want to sell their game on Europe and Asia too.
 

Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
The difference this time is sony has had better developer relations during the development of the ps4. After the revelation about back door deals with EA for titanfall and the reaction of the developer, it appears MS is content to toss money at companies the same as always. The problem with that is the ps4 has enjoyed better PR leading up to launch so a more favorable mindset can push developers away from Xbox exclusivity. Especially if they want to sell their game on Europe and Asia too.

That's a good point and agree with you, except about MS's backdoor deals. When it comes to content, I could care less if MS bribes developers or buys them outright. This is business and I don't fault for making business decisions. No one cares how the sausages are made as long as they taste good when consumed.

Since the first Xbox, MS has successfully convinced developers that were notoriously Sony centric to developer for Xbox. Square Enix and Konami are a couple that really spring to mind.

Metal Gear Solid IV was "too big" to bring to the 360 according to Konami, yet Metal Gear Solid V is coming to the XB1. Now, was the performance disparity greater between the 360 and PS3, or XB1 and PS4? Of course we know it's PR doublespeak because the only thing too big was the encoded 1080P bluray video, which could have been reencoded to fit on multi DVDs easily.

Bottom line, MS is better at acquiring content than Sony. They are willing to risk large amounts of money in order to attract the biggest titles. Sony does the same thing, though I believe they tend to prefer investing in Japanese game developers. I'm still not sure how that's a bad thing from the customers point of view. In a way, I feel good knowing that if I buy a MS console that MS is going to do everything in it's power to insure I get access to as many AAA titles as possible.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
For the vast majority I expect 360 users to get a One eventually and PS3 users to get a PS4 eventually. There is really no reason at all for people who love the 360 and didn't like the PS3 to get a PS4 and vice versa.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
That's a good point and agree with you, except about MS's backdoor deals. When it comes to content, I could care less if MS bribes developers or buys them outright. This is business and I don't fault for making business decisions. No one cares how the sausages are made as long as they taste good when consumed.

Since the first Xbox, MS has successfully convinced developers that were notoriously Sony centric to developer for Xbox. Square Enix and Konami are a couple that really spring to mind.

Metal Gear Solid IV was "too big" to bring to the 360 according to Konami, yet Metal Gear Solid V is coming to the XB1. Now, was the performance disparity greater between the 360 and PS3, or XB1 and PS4? Of course we know it's PR doublespeak because the only thing too big was the encoded 1080P bluray video, which could have been reencoded to fit on multi DVDs easily.

Bottom line, MS is better at acquiring content than Sony. They are willing to risk large amounts of money in order to attract the biggest titles. Sony does the same thing, though I believe they tend to prefer investing in Japanese game developers. I'm still not sure how that's a bad thing from the customers point of view. In a way, I feel good knowing that if I buy a MS console that MS is going to do everything in it's power to insure I get access to as many AAA titles as possible.

No...the developer of titanfall was not happy that ea made the deal without consulting them. Ea got paid and the Dev loses potential purchases from sony consoles. That's the extent of what I was saying. Developers want a large audience. Publishers just want to be paid. This is why self publishing for small teams will be a great bonus for these new consoles.

If I remember right, mgs4 was too big because of the limitations of DVD storage sizes. They couldn't fit the content on DVD media and they didn't want to put out multiple disks. That is not an issue anymore.

I look forward to what developers can do in the coming years.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
The difference this time is sony has had better developer relations during the development of the ps4. After the revelation about back door deals with EA for titanfall and the reaction of the developer, it appears MS is content to toss money at companies the same as always.

Why is this always said with a bad connotation? As if paying for exclusives is somehow bad? Sony typically prefers to pay to have subsidiaries make their exclusives, Microsoft typically prefers to pay to have 3rd-party developers make their exclusives. It's really no different from a low-level perspective.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,027
5,912
126
Why is this always said with a bad connotation? As if paying for exclusives is somehow bad? Sony typically prefers to pay to have subsidiaries make their exclusives, Microsoft typically prefers to pay to have 3rd-party developers make their exclusives. It's really no different from a low-level perspective.

heh the bold is pretty much the reason. not that it makes any sense whatsoever, but it's the reason, because the cool thing now a days is to shit on MS and suck Sony off. not saying that is what most people on this forum are doing, but in general that is why people do it.
 

MrCoyote

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,001
5
81
For the vast majority I expect 360 users to get a One eventually and PS3 users to get a PS4 eventually. There is really no reason at all for people who love the 360 and didn't like the PS3 to get a PS4 and vice versa.

Of course there are plenty of reasons some 360 users will switch to PS4. Better hardware specs, more compact console with built-in power supply, different exclusive games, etc. I went through 3 360's that had some kind of hardware failures, and my 4th one, the DVD drive went out. My fat PS3 is still working great from day one.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |