The Official Xbox One Thread

[Arkaign]

I have every reason to believe they are merely testing the waters. Plain and simple.

That's pretty likely, with an eye on pushing as far towards monetization as they can get away with. Given how most don't pay attention (or their parents pay the fees and they have no reason to care), it's probably pretty far.

As for the used games fee, given that you must install a game to the drive, must tie it to an account, I don't see any way that they will not charge for it. Otherwise a single copy could be spread infinitely. The question them becomes 'how much?'. Answering that is probably pretty simple : whatever MSRP is for the game, otherwise when something big drops, everyone would try to save $XX by borrowing the disc from someone else rather than paying full price. Definitely the end of used games as we know it for Microsoft, unless they massively change policies.

 

[blurredvision]

As for the used games fee, given that you must install a game to the drive, must tie it to an account, I don't see any way that they will not charge for it. Otherwise a single copy could be spread infinitely. The question them becomes 'how much?'. Answering that is probably pretty simple : whatever MSRP is for the game, otherwise when something big drops, everyone would try to save $XX by borrowing the disc from someone else rather than paying full price. Definitely the end of used games as we know it for Microsoft, unless they massively change policies.

The other thing that ties into this is that obviously Gamestop is onboard with all of this. They will be selling something, but you'd also think a fee will need to be paid to Microsoft to unlock the license for a used game. Or if Microsoft is in league with Gamestop to provide these licenses to used game buyers, what does that do to the smaller used game stores?

Lots of questions here, it would behoove Microsoft to officially clarify, however I don't expect that until probably the second half of 2013.

 

[preslove]

Did I step into P&N somehow? What's with all the idiots with stupid conspiracy theories?

 

[blurredvision]

Did I step into P&N somehow? What's with all the idiots with stupid conspiracy theories?

It's consoles. This is serious business.

 

[dguy6789]

Pretty sure Microsoft is trying to do the best they can to say "it's exactly like steam"(which is completely true and great news) without literally saying "it's just like steam".

 

[Arkaign]

The other thing that ties into this is that obviously Gamestop is onboard with all of this. They will be selling something, but you'd also think a fee will need to be paid to Microsoft to unlock the license for a used game. Or if Microsoft is in league with Gamestop to provide these licenses to used game buyers, what does that do to the smaller used game stores?

Lots of questions here, it would behoove Microsoft to officially clarify, however I don't expect that until probably the second half of 2013.

Well we have to examine this a step at a time. Most people's internet connections are not decent enough to download a BD-sized game over the net at a reasonable speed. In addition, the manual has some value as well, so the physical copy will be desired still for many titles. For a 2GB game, it's not such a big deal, but it wouldn't surprise me to see many games being 15-30GB. Accepting this, used games would definitely have value necessitating retail. For Gamestop to be involved, then there would have to be a reseller's commission for someone buying a used game and getting a new key/activation for it, so they can take it home and add it to their XBL account to play it.

I doubt very much if Microsoft cares one bit about the smaller resellers. They probably begrudgingly accept Gamestop's existence at this time (tbh, nobody in the industry likes that people can buy used games anyway), so it will probably be a gateway for income much like Amazon for music/tv/movie downloads. Amazon gets a cut, and the other income heads on up to the distributor/licensor. It would be pretty simple to set up, put up a web portal for the store to log into, and when a copy is sold at the price they have listed, a key is generated that can be activated when the customer gets home to install it.

This is not conspiracy theory stuff, it's all absolutely necessary IF :

1 - Games must be installed to the HDD
2 - Games must be tied to a XBL account
3 - Games no longer need the disc to play

If 1, 2, and 3 are true, then either Microsoft/EA/etc will simply let one copy be installed infinitely (impossible), or they will have a fee for each license.

It's not FUD, it's not a Microsoft-bashing observation, it's just the truth. Now, if 1, 2, and 3 are not true above, then forget the logical path from there, it's unknown, and it could be like it is now, you can grab/borrow a used copy of Forza or whatever, install and play without a hassle at all.

 

[smackababy]

That's pretty likely, with an eye on pushing as far towards monetization as they can get away with. Given how most don't pay attention (or their parents pay the fees and they have no reason to care), it's probably pretty far.

As for the used games fee, given that you must install a game to the drive, must tie it to an account, I don't see any way that they will not charge for it. Otherwise a single copy could be spread infinitely. The question them becomes 'how much?'. Answering that is probably pretty simple : whatever MSRP is for the game, otherwise when something big drops, everyone would try to save $XX by borrowing the disc from someone else rather than paying full price. Definitely the end of used games as we know it for Microsoft, unless they massively change policies.

How does installing it tie it to your account? I can install games on the 360 right now. They are not tied to an account. MS is smart enough to know people don't want to sit around waiting for some 8x blu-ray to load 50gb worth of data every time you want to play. They copy it to the HDD and you are good. PCs worth in the same way. Is all my software tied to my PC or my Windows account? Of course not. They are just letting people do away with discs to alleviate swapping and enhance their voice feature. Being able to say "Play Forza" and then "Play Halo" would be worthless if I had to actually put those discs in.

We don't know exactly how they are handling copy protection, but from it just being installed does not mean anything. I think it is safe to assume the software will activate and phone home somehow, and probably safe to assume it will deactivate when another user activates it. How they go about achieving this, who knows. It could be just simple disc based activation. The first use requires a disc, and it doesn't until that disc has been activated on another console that you require it again on your own. That way, you can't just lend the disc out and never get it back. And if you sell it, since you don't get the disc back, there is no problems not being able to play the game anymore.

 

[Arkaign]

Pretty sure Microsoft is trying to do the best they can to say "it's exactly like steam"(which is completely true and great news) without literally saying "it's just like steam".

It's not the end of the world by any means, but it's a fundamental change that deeply changes how console games exist. I can go to a pawn shop or thrift store and pick up an old game for any console right now, take it home and play it with nobody charging me. That's awesome. If this is the future of consoles (and it inevitably is, whether now or later), then it's sort of sad. It destroys collectability, as eventually the XB1 servers will turn off, and you'll have no way of activating/validating even single player games.

Again, not the worst news, but not happy news. And a hassle compared to your buddy dropping by and loaning you a game just to be able to play it without being hassled.

 

[Arkaign]

How does installing it tie it to your account? I can install games on the 360 right now. They are not tied to an account. MS is smart enough to know people don't want to sit around waiting for some 8x blu-ray to load 50gb worth of data every time you want to play. They copy it to the HDD and you are good. PCs worth in the same way. Is all my software tied to my PC or my Windows account? Of course not. They are just letting people do away with discs to alleviate swapping and enhance their voice feature. Being able to say "Play Forza" and then "Play Halo" would be worthless if I had to actually put those discs in.

We don't know exactly how they are handling copy protection, but from it just being installed does not mean anything. I think it is safe to assume the software will activate and phone home somehow, and probably safe to assume it will deactivate when another user activates it. How they go about achieving this, who knows. It could be just simple disc based activation. The first use requires a disc, and it doesn't until that disc has been activated on another console that you require it again on your own. That way, you can't just lend the disc out and never get it back. And if you sell it, since you don't get the disc back, there is no problems not being able to play the game anymore.

Not completely fleshed out yet, but this is the basis for this logic :

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4352314/xbox-one-hard-drive-game-installs

 

[dguy6789]

It's not the end of the world by any means, but it's a fundamental change that deeply changes how console games exist. I can go to a pawn shop or thrift store and pick up an old game for any console right now, take it home and play it with nobody charging me. That's awesome. If this is the future of consoles (and it inevitably is, whether now or later), then it's sort of sad. It destroys collectability, as eventually the XB1 servers will turn off, and you'll have no way of activating/validating even single player games.

Again, not the worst news, but not happy news. And a hassle compared to your buddy dropping by and loaning you a game just to be able to play it without being hassled.

I'm more likely to believe from this point on every console from MS is going to be x86(reasoning for that is ease of Xbox and Windows working together) and backwards compatible and the servers that host the One games will continue growing and doing what they do much like Steam servers today.

 

[dagamer34]

I see it basically being akin to World of Warcraft for the most part. Retail discs are a distribution medium, the actual license (aka, important part) is the unique key included in every package. You can bring a set of discs over to someone's house to install the game, but they need to buy a unique key to play it.

Console gamers may throw a fit, PC gamers have been dealing with this since 2003 with Steam.

Even with all of the used game bruhaha, the actual important question is very simple: "Will publishers have regular sales to generate sales of older games?" Are they going to let the price of the game on the online store languish at $50 for forever so that there's no incentive to buy a game at that price? The motivating factor behind all of this is that a cheap purchase from a publisher generates more profits than a used sale from Gamestop which is why these same console publishers agree to Steam sales on the PC in the first place. It clearly makes money for them.

 

[Doppel]

As for the used games fee, given that you must install a game to the drive, must tie it to an account, I don't see any way that they will not charge for it.

There is a simple technical solution to this.



First, I like the idea of always installing and not needing the disc.



If each disc is physically different, but only insofar as a unique ID is concerned, then when you install it that ID gets associated with your Xbox account. Now, if you want to sell it or trade it, you have to deactivate (over the internet). Now, next person who installs it has no issue because you’ve just detached yours. Alternatively, don’t even deactivate—if another system gets it installed with that physical disc and unique ID it automatically deactivates any other system associated with it. At the most you’re then playing it for 24 hours (assuming internet is needed every 24 hours).



When we install a lot of software we already have to put in a code, and I’ve had to with some xbox games for extra content, so it’s hardly a big step to take. There would be some small (?) extra cost burning discs that are slightly unique (but only that part of the disc that is holding ID information).

The first use requires a disc, and it doesn't until that disc has been activated on another console that you require it again on your own.

Heck, that's even better, no need to type in crap, obviously it reads from the disc.

 

[Axon]

All Microsoft is trying to do is cut off revenues from used game companies, like gamestop and gamefly. I actually don't have much issue with that. I will be pissed if it comes out that you need to sign a two year deal to use the Xbox one.

 

[smackababy]

All Microsoft is trying to do is cut off revenues from used game companies, like gamestop and gamefly. I actually don't have much issue with that. I will be pissed if it comes out that you need to sign a two year deal to use the Xbox one.

The contract is for a subsidized console and an Xbox Live contract. They did this with the 360. ($99 upfront and a 2 year agreement at $15 a month) You paid more in the long run (no too much though) and you got a cheaper console. This was attractive to the lower income families and gamers who, despite not being able to afford one, want to buy one anyway. Cell phone companies have been doing this for awhile.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I will be pissed if it comes out that you need to sign a two year deal to use the Xbox one.

Really? What have you read/heard/dreamed that ever made you think this would be a requirement for the Xbox One?

Some of you guys are just so unbelievable.

 

[clok1966]

All Microsoft is trying to do is cut off revenues from used game companies, like gamestop and gamefly. I actually don't have much issue with that. I will be pissed if it comes out that you need to sign a two year deal to use the Xbox one.

you missed the part where you cut those companies off and replace them with "MS" they are not stopping it, they are taking it over..

interview with head MS guy 'you take game to friends and install, you take disc back, he can PAY to buy it since it on his machine" so you dont buy a new copy.. you buy the same info form the original disc on your machine..

gamestop- crooks with the prices.. no love.. could care less how they go.. but we are (not all) of us in the USA.. Tell me how a game is different then a BOOK, a MUSIC CD, a PAINTING, A MOVIE DVD.. they are things some artist worked hard to make, and intellectual property, we don't buy them for the physical part.. the paper, the plastic, the paint, we buy them for content.. the idea, they are not tangible in any way except the physical copy.. and once purchased in all cases the PERSON WHO PAID FOR IT can decide if he wants to sell it, and at what price..

HOW can MS dictate how i use it? They cant, unless we buy it and allow it.. they are using plain old capitalism, totally legal, offer a SHITTY!!!! option and if we chose to buy it, we are the idiots.. authors would love to see no used books, Musician would love to see no USED cd's, Directors (who get residules) would love to see no used movies. But that type of restrictive market doesn't work.. WHY WOULD YOU AGREE TO IT FOR GAMES?

Im sorry , used games have been around since games where made.. The ONLY THING that has changed, gamestop/gamefly started making HUGE $$$ on it.. MS is just pissed it didnt think of it first.. And now they want to be the ones getting that money..

last thing.. much like record companies.. MS will get the lions share of theextra bucks.. it wont go to the devs ... only pennies will go to the devs.. we have just changed gamestop to MS.. still the same old SHITTY prices for used stuff.. again, how it this an improvement? Where in this "new way" is the gamer getting something? My game has no more value.. i cant resell it.. Prices wont go down as quick.. there is no alternative purchase place, no more used games.. if i want a game I have to PAY , no alternative. game X has no demo.. i cant rent it to try before i buy.. games can only be used on one machine..

go to ebay.. look up any old console, you can buy um with and without games.. they have VALUE.. in 10 years tou wont see any XBOX infinty .. you cant sell it, you cant sell games.. they are all tied to you.. your login name.. nobody will want that, they cant use it..

cant wait till this is "normal" bought my car for $30,000, now 5 years later i want to sell it.. nope.. its used.. Car company who made it wants $20,000... because they cant sell a new car if I sold a used car.. FOOKING stupid idea...

you tell me one reason why a game should be treated different then a SONG, BOOK or work of art.. one reason.

 

[Axon]

Really? What have you read/heard/dreamed that ever made you think this would be a requirement for the Xbox One?

Some of you guys are just so unbelievable.

Unbelievable? Et tu, Brutus. Is it really a reach to think MS will try to integrate a subscription model, which (1) they've already done a subscription option with the 360 and (2) they just did with MS Office? Of course they would! It guarantees revenue streams for two years, and you either pay it all or they can sue you - not even in Court, but in an arbitration setting, where you have no chance. Cash money is all they give a poop about, after all. Got those shareholders to placate, gotta get dem dividends.

I'm not "raging" about it, I'm just not buying Xbox one if a monthly Xbox live subscription stops being an option and a 2 year contract becomes a "feature." That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. At no time did I say this was fact and a done deal; obviously, it is not. But would I put it past MS? Absolutely not. I give it 50/50.

 

[smackababy]

you missed the part where you cut those companies off and replace them with "MS" they are not stopping it, they are taking it over..

interview with head MS guy 'you take game to friends and install, you take disc back, he can PAY to buy it since it on his machine" so you dont buy a new copy.. you buy the same info form the original disc on your machine..

gamestop- crooks with the prices.. no love.. could care less how they go.. but we are (not all) of us in the USA.. Tell me how a game is different then a BOOK, a MUSIC CD, a PAINTING, A MOVIE DVD.. they are things some artist worked hard to make, and intellectual property, we don't buy them for the physical part.. the paper, the plastic, the paint, we buy them for content.. the idea, they are not tangible in any way except the physical copy.. and once purchased in all cases the PERSON WHO PAID FOR IT can decide if he wants to sell it, and at what price..

HOW can MS dictate how i use it? They cant, unless we buy it and allow it.. they are using plain old capitalism, totally legal, offer a SHITTY!!!! option and if we chose to buy it, we are the idiots.. authors would love to see no used books, Musician would love to see no USED cd's, Directors (who get residules) would love to see no used movies. But that type of restrictive market doesn't work.. WHY WOULD YOU AGREE TO IT FOR GAMES?

Im sorry , used games have been around since games where made.. The ONLY THING that has changed, gamestop/gamefly started making HUGE $$$ on it.. MS is just pissed it didnt think of it first.. And now they want to be the ones getting that money..

last thing.. much like record companies.. MS will get the lions share of theextra bucks.. it wont go to the devs ... only pennies will go to the devs.. we have just changed gamestop to MS.. still the same old SHITTY prices for used stuff.. again, how it this an improvement? Where in this "new way" is the gamer getting something? My game has no more value.. i cant resell it.. Prices wont go down as quick.. there is no alternative purchase place, no more used games.. if i want a game I have to PAY , no alternative. game X has no demo.. i cant rent it to try before i buy.. games can only be used on one machine..

go to ebay.. look up any old console, you can buy um with and without games.. they have VALUE.. in 10 years tou wont see any XBOX infinty .. you cant sell it, you cant sell games.. they are all tied to you.. your login name.. nobody will want that, they cant use it..

cant wait till this is "normal" bought my car for $30,000, now 5 years later i want to sell it.. nope.. its used.. Car company who made it wants $20,000... because they cant sell a new car if I sold a used car.. FOOKING stupid idea...

you tell me one reason why a game should be treated different then a SONG, BOOK or work of art.. one reason.

The problem is not the resale. That is not what MS seems to be against. They are trying to make the Xbox One install and play games are easy as possible for the users. And when you sell your used game, MS is trying to please publishers by not allowing you to keep a copy of it. Look at books, music, paintings, cars, whatever else. If I buy a book, I cannot copy it and sell it off. That IS illegal and that is what this whole fuss is about.

While we don't have hard facts as to what MS is doing, I imagine it is something along the line of activation is only good for one console at a time. Meaning, if you sell it, your installed game should no longer work, and if you want it to work, you can buy a license for it.

 

[Axon]

you missed the part where you cut those companies off and replace them with "MS" they are not stopping it, they are taking it over..

[other stuff]
.

While I agree with the ebay and car example, I just don't have an issue with this behavior. I rarely buy used games, so my only loss will be reselling these copies later or borrowing a game. However, I can see why other people would wig over this.

 

[gothamhunter]

Will probably be a small majority, but it sounds like those without Internet connected to it won't even be able to play on the thing. That's too bad

 

[Fingolfin269]

Unbelievable? Et tu, Brutus. Is it really a reach to think MS will try to integrate a subscription model, which (1) they've already done a subscription option with the 360

Yes it is unbelievable that they would do a subscription model for the Xbox One that is absolutely required. You give it a 50/50 chance? Really? I give it a 0% chance.

 

[smackababy]

Will probably be a small majority, but it sounds like those without Internet connected to it won't even be able to play on the thing. That's too bad

Considering the Xbox 360 sold ~75million units and they have roughly half of that number in XBL subscribers, I don't think they care much about people without internet. Best case scenario, everyone who bought a 360 also bought a Slim Model and they are all connected. Worst case, only half of those that bought a 360 are connected to XBL. Either way, the chances are people without internet actually spending $500 on a console are probably pretty slim.

The only real concern I see is for people outside of the US with low data caps because we don't know exactly how much data the Xbox One uses.

 

[clok1966]

The problem is not the resale. That is not what MS seems to be against. They are trying to make the Xbox One install and play games are easy as possible for the users. And when you sell your used game, MS is trying to please publishers by not allowing you to keep a copy of it. Look at books, music, paintings, cars, whatever else. If I buy a book, I cannot copy it and sell it off. That IS illegal and that is what this whole fuss is about.

While we don't have hard facts as to what MS is doing, I imagine it is something along the line of activation is only good for one console at a time. Meaning, if you sell it, your installed game should no longer work, and if you want it to work, you can buy a license for it.

If i can buy a game, play it and Quit playing it and sell it to you, and then you can play it.. I HAVE ZERO problem.. but EVERY interview where that question is asked, its never answered, its always some weird scenario, they are simply not answering it in simple terms.. which means one of two things, they dont know.. or we cant sell used games once we are done with them.

mask it "ease of use" all you want.. its still "YOU CANT SELL USED GAMES" .... Easier to install? do you work for MS? at the end of this generation most games could be installed to the HD to play faster, but still required the disc in.. but i can still sell them, once done playing them. Market speak is just that, misdirection and vague replies to easy questions because we wont like the answers. They are saying games are now TIED to ID's...at least that is what i get out of it all..

If im wrong , Im wrong.. but so many questions and no simple answer..

 

[RedRooster]

Unbelievable? Et tu, Brutus. Is it really a reach to think MS will try to integrate a subscription model, which (1) they've already done a subscription option with the 360 and (2) they just did with MS Office? Of course they would! It guarantees revenue streams for two years, and you either pay it all or they can sue you - not even in Court, but in an arbitration setting, where you have no chance. Cash money is all they give a poop about, after all. Got those shareholders to placate, gotta get dem dividends.

I'm not "raging" about it, I'm just not buying Xbox one if a monthly Xbox live subscription stops being an option and a 2 year contract becomes a "feature." That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. At no time did I say this was fact and a done deal; obviously, it is not. But would I put it past MS? Absolutely not. I give it 50/50.

They've already said XBox Live subs will work the same as they do now. If you're nervous, go buy five XBL cards on sale right now and add them to your account.

 

[smackababy]

If i can buy a game, play it and Quit playing it and sell it to you, and then you can play it.. I HAVE ZERO problem.. but EVERY interview where that question is asked, its never answered, its always some weird scenario, they are simply not answering it in simple terms.. which means one of two things, they dont know.. or we cant sell used games once we are done with them.

mask it "ease of use" all you want.. its still "YOU CANT SELL USED GAMES" .... Easier to install? do you work for MS? at the end of this generation most games could be installed to the HD to play faster, but still required the disc in.. but i can still sell them, once done playing them. Market speak is just that, misdirection and vague replies to easy questions because we wont like the answers. They are saying games are now TIED to ID's...at least that is what i get out of it all..

If im wrong , Im wrong.. but so many questions and no simple answer..

You are right, they aren't giving exact details besides that a game you own (registered to you somehow) can be downloaded after you initially install it via the disc. They have always stated you can sell used games and that played a used game does not have a fee to it. I feel the assumptions I've made about activation / deactivation are probably the most true.

Best case would be it activates for your Xbox and profile after you buy it. If you sell it or give it away or have it stolen or whatever, it automatically deactivates from your account and reactivates on the new one. Then the "Would you like to buy this" popup Wired was talking about, would be for the original owner if they decided to play the game after having given it away, although, if they put in the disc the popup would be eliminated.