The ol' career path debacle. Any insight helpful

McCartney

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
388
0
76
Before I get flamed or whatever, it seems that the hardforums got me crickets so I'm posting here as well to see if I can get any input from someone. I'd be really thankful.

Thanks in advance.

Hi guys,

Currently I'm a 4th year Computing Science student who is graduating this April. Technically I'm in my 5th year, but more on that later.

My grades in my last 2 years will hopefully average out to about a 3.4-3.5.

I should mention that I changed my major in my 3rd year of University and I've essentially taken all Math,stat and CMPUT courses in my last 2 years. My current year (Fall 2009 and this term is Winter 2010) included the 8 required "higher" level Computing Science courses and one mathematical statistics course and a computational physics course.

God willing, I'm hoping to finish this year with a 3.9. That would be all the courses that show my potential to be an academic.

A little bit about the courses I took last term, all 5 were CMPUT courses. They involved:
Operating Systems
Processor Design
Algorithms (Flow networks) and Complexity Theory (from an Algorithms perspective, not an finite automaton perspective)
Machine Learning
Reinforcement Learning.

I did quite well in these courses.

This term, the 3 relevant computing courses are:
1. An Independent Study Computing course where I'm learning Probability Theory and modelling Hidden Markov Models.
2.A distributed computing class focusing on parallelization. It requires extensive knowledge of operating systems such as the mutual exclusion problem, and a good handle on threads. We study models like MPI, treadmarks, MapReduce, pthreads,etc.. 3. A Computing course focusing on implementing Algorithms for ACM competitions, with efficient implementations and good running times.

Needless to say I am humbled by the opportunities I am HOPING to be provided if I get admitted into graduate school... My institution has afforded me the great luxury of being well-versed, I daresay entry-level graduate, on these topics discussed above.

Since I skipped software engineering courses that teach you how to "use" SVN and "work" in teams on meaningless Java projects, I was able to take every course I felt that was "true" to Computing Science. No I'm not an elitist; I just believe that Computing Science isn't programming and I LOVE the science. There is nothing more I want to do than be a pure-bred Computing Scientist. My goal is to be a pivotal contributor to any field I hope to research. I want to inspire a new generation, just as exploring the beauty of the current generation has inspired me.

I am in the position to become a new-generation "hybrid" that focuses on many areas and tie them together. I should state I love all of the fields I discussed above equally, but Algorithms research isn't my goal. I hope to use them extensively in amortizing potential runtimes for things I do, but I don't want to research or create an approximation algorithm or explore such stuff.


And this is the problem I face.

My current gripe is that I love Probability Theory, but I feel the mathematics I need isn't there. As a result I want to "bridge" my math to acquire the appropriate level of sophistication so I can feel at home.

I have knowledge of Calculus 1,2,3, Ordinary and Partial Differential equations. What I would need is a healthy understanding of Topology, Measure Theory (with respect to Real Analysis) to satisfy the level of rigor I need to get a legitimate thesis. I know that,ultimately, this may reward me the most, since I would propose new work with a larger scale appeal if I discuss it in mathematics and show the applicability to areas in AI.

And that's the other thing, I want my Thesis to present original work.

The problem is I don't want to discuss just an application
of a novel statistical learning algorithm and provide results with insight. That's what may happen if I don't learn all the math I feel I need.

Another problem is that I am so in love with Operating Systems, Processor Design (all the low level GUTS) that I am having a hard time choosing what to do. I really love performance modelling and learning about why certain parellelization models failed and succeeded. The papers may be long but man they're so intuitive and beautiful. For example, the TreadMarks model was a failure in so many ways; but there were so many great ideas that were extracted from it that they paved the way (indirectly) for things like Google's MapReduce.

My University is world-class, I daresay top 5 in the world for Machine Learning/Statistical Learning. I know it's not as strong for Systems but I don't even know if I would do Systems research here.

I am really torn between the idea of highperformance systems/Virtual Machine research on Shared Memory Systems/Processor Design/Operating Systems type research, or Statistical Learning/Machine Learning.

Can anyone point me to some great Graduate schools that are strong in each? I would prefer not disclosing my institution out as I can easily be identified if someone was a little persistent.

I would really appreciate if someone could show me some processor design-type research areas in CS. They're really hard to find and I'm hoping to uncover one. Maybe that will satiate me the most. I really enjoyed learning about the concepts of what is required to have a high performance CPU.

Thanks for any assistance.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
you sure you are not an English major....I mean, you pretty much just wrote a novel...


Cliffs:

He, like other grads, is torn between fields he would like to be in.


My answer: Work for 2 years. You do not have to go to grad school right away. The biggest complaint i get from people in grad school is that they ended up not liking what they did. Well, it's their fault. SO many people have this mentality that they have to get the highest degree possible. If you can't figure it, go work for a few years and figure it out.
 
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Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
81
I just want to say that skimming your post made me feel like a real slacker.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
0
Since I skipped software engineering courses that teach you how to "use" SVN and "work" in teams on meaningless Java projects
Maybe in your school software engineering project are meaningless. I'm just getting started on my senior project, and it's a tool that I hope one day will be used by people in industry, and I think I have a high likelihood of that happening. And yes, it's written in Java.
No I'm not an elitist
Yes, you are.
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,020
1
0
I just want to say that skimming your post made me feel like a real slacker.

Fucking this.

Also, the odds of you being happy with oodles of money > the odds of you being happy with your eventual job

And we can't talk about grad schools without knowing where you go to school currently.
 

McCartney

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
388
0
76
Sure you can. I don't see how my current school affects a selection from the rest...

How am I an elitist? Computing scientists aren't supposed to be programmers.

I believe my brethren have a purpose much higher than developing software, since that isn't our job. We aren't software engineers, we are computing scientists.

The senior year software development course is more of the same: planning, tons of documentation and a half-finished project since 4 months isn't sufficient to complete it...

I also want to state that I enjoy school very much. I enjoy many of these fields, computing science, to me, isn't just an end. It's a beautiful science that I hold very close to my life. I would say it has changed the way I see the world and how I approach problems. It is my hobby and, one day, my profession.


Anyways, Legendary, I would be happy to PM you my institution but I would need your "word" that you're going to be of help.. I just hate disclosing information that can potentially "out" me. I'm not here to showboat or anything, just need advice from others in the industry and the science.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
0
The senior year software development course is more of the same: planning, tons of documentation and a half-finished project since 4 months isn't sufficient to complete it...
My project is developed using eXtreme Programming methodologies, which means less planning, less documentation, more deliverables. And it's 9 months long.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
Sure you can. I don't see how my current school affects a selection from the rest...

How am I an elitist? Computing scientists aren't supposed to be programmers.

I believe my brethren have a purpose much higher than developing software, since that isn't our job. We aren't software engineers, we are computing scientists.

The senior year software development course is more of the same: planning, tons of documentation and a half-finished project since 4 months isn't sufficient to complete it...

I also want to state that I enjoy school very much. I enjoy many of these fields, computing science, to me, isn't just an end. It's a beautiful science that I hold very close to my life. I would say it has changed the way I see the world and how I approach problems. It is my hobby and, one day, my profession.


Anyways, Legendary, I would be happy to PM you my institution but I would need your "word" that you're going to be of help.. I just hate disclosing information that can potentially "out" me. I'm not here to showboat or anything, just need advice from others in the industry and the science.

How does telling us what school you go to "out" you?
 

McCartney

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
388
0
76
Because in the graduating class there's only about 20, maybe 30 students. The enrollment isn't very high in the upper years. and if you wanted to find out who took all these courses I am the only one who took as difficult of a semester this year...
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
Because in the graduating class there's only about 20, maybe 30 students. The enrollment isn't very high in the upper years. and if you wanted to find out who took all these courses I am the only one who took as difficult of a semester this year...

I still fail to understand it....but if that is how you feel, well, then its all you.
 

McCartney

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
388
0
76
Does it actually help everyone here who may have suggestions? I don't see how it can but if it actually can then I will disclose it.

I just don't want any professor or faculty member who knows me to think I'm doing something socially unacceptable, because people can take things the wrong way.

I'm just seeking advice.
 

Maleficus

Diamond Member
May 2, 2001
7,685
0
0
Do whatever will get you money and a guaranteed job, screw everything else.

<--graduated #1 in his class and can't find a job.
 

McCartney

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
388
0
76
There is already money in the profession. I'm more focused on doing what I love in it rather than making money. I have been blessed to have my education, among many other things, paid for.
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,020
1
0
I asked what school you're in currently because generally those who go to an insufficiently prestigious school don't get into MIT and the likes for grad school in what you're interested in.

Also if you're not going to undergrad in America currently that would also be a hindrance. I only suspect that due to your verbosity and the name in your profile. If you're in India, say, and not going to an IIT, your chances of going to a top level American CS grad school are quite slim.


Anyway in general the top 3 CS schools that I know of are
MIT
Stanford
Caltech

so if you're as good as you think you are that's where you should start looking.
 

apac

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2003
6,212
0
71
That would be all the courses that show my potential to be an academic.
I did quite well in these courses.
There is nothing more I want to do than be a pure-bred Computing Scientist
Since I skipped software engineering courses that teach you how to "use" SVN and "work" in teams on meaningless Java projects
My goal is to be a pivotal contributor to any field I hope to research.

lol. I know your type - very typical. You'd like to call yourself a purist, but really you just think you're above the lowly programmer - you take care of the dreaming and everyone else will handle the rest. You know why those research papers are so eloquent? Because they are 25&#37; fact and 75% speculation. Trust me, I know- I published 2 papers as an undergrad. None of it was false, but the concrete work behind it could have been a rubber band it was so stretched.

Being a "Computer Scientist" by your definition is like saying an architect should never have to draw up blueprints. It's just not useful or practical.

I worked with someone who was a 4.0 student in grad school. My research was on routing algorithms and she understood everything on paper. When I asked her to work with the code and try to rework the algorithm, it was fairly shocking. I, a 3rd year undergrad, had to explain to her, a 2nd year masters student, that her compile was failing because she was trying to #include a source file. And it took multiple explanations before she understood WHY that was incorrect. The same way she couldn't figure out any of the SVN repositories and had to be hand-held the entire time.

My biggest critique of the entire program at my school was that it was all theory and no practical application. No one hires you if you can't code, and especially if you have no team development skills. If your goal is to be a "pivotal contributor" in whatever field you choose, I suggest you put a little more emphasis on learning how to ""work" in teams".

In summary, no I'm not going to offer you any advice.
 
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yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I just had a flashback to the beginning of my fourth year in computer science where I had an internal debate: Go for grad school, a PhD, and the works, or go make money? The debate was over in two seconds - maybe less. I was working in private industry three weeks from the day I took my last exam.

At the time of my decision, I had inside knowledge on what academia and the pure research field entailed. It isn't pretty, it isn't glamorous and it sure as hell doesn't have much job security. That said, if you're a research superstar, the money and fame will come.

Apologies for not having a substantive reply - I'm not from your country anyways so my knowledge of institutions wouldn't help you much. Good luck, though. You will certainly need it.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,032
2
0
How am I an elitist? Computing scientists aren't supposed to be programmers.

I believe my brethren have a purpose much higher than developing software, since that isn't our job. We aren't software engineers, we are computing scientists.

Some of us need to get paid, son.

I enjoy many of these fields, computing science, to me, isn't just an end. It's a beautiful science that I hold very close to my life.

Sounds like you need to get laid.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
0
I don't believe cosc is a real science and I certainly don't think it's beautiful. I'm in my 4th & final year of a cosc degree.
 

D1gger

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,411
2
76
It sounds to me like you need to get out of the academic world and get some reality. You are pontificating about the beautiful science like it actually means something. Unless you are going to be a research scientist or a college professor, you will not use 10&#37; of what you learned in college once you get a real job.
 
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