The People Have Spoken

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VashHT

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2007
3,164
1,069
136
Also some other times in the last 20 years:

1) Under Bush, there was a push from Bush to address immigration issues
2) Under Obama, where the Republicans sank a deal

Republicans largely don't give 2 shits about fixing immigration issues, and they largely seem happy to have some permanent underclass that can't complain, lest the risk deportation while also using that group as a way to rustle up idiot voters.
It's an easy scapegoat for them, it's just pathetic that even with super low unemployment people buy the line that "illegals" are taking our jobs. Also, it's really stupid that people think that they're receiving welfare benefits and shit, not only that but they think the money they imagine is being spent on immigrants would be helping them instead. Quite similar to when they complain about Ukraine getting aid instead of the homeless and veterans, as if republicans ever give aid to US citizens.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,699
6,373
136
Congrats on voting to make America great again. It was the right choice and soon we will hopefully do the same here in Canada. The pendulum is swinging.
Serious question: do you have any idea what the US healthcare system is like? If you don't have insurance you are being charged $3500 or more for an ambulance ride. A fucking ride to the hospital with an EMT and a driver making $20 an hour. Hospital bills in this country literally tell people not to commit suicide. And your boy is going to throw millions of people off their insurance when he kills the ACA. He came a single vote from John McCain from doing it in 2017. This time he will 100% accomplish it.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,623
14,149
146
Serious question: do you have any idea what the US healthcare system is like? If you don't have insurance you are being charged $3500 or more for an ambulance ride. A fucking ride to the hospital with an EMT and a driver making $20 an hour. Hospital bills in this country literally tell people not to commit suicide. And your boy is going to throw millions of people off their insurance when he kills the ACA. He came a single vote from John McCain from doing it in 2017. This time he will 100% accomplish it.
Don't forget medicaid, he wants that gone too.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
4,302
3,916
136
Rolling Stone rips into Donald Trump and his victory:

“Donald Trump- the twice impeached former president, Jan. 6 coup leader, convicted felon, adjudicated sexual abuser, and man who mismanaged the 2020 economic implosion and coronavirus disaster that killed more than 1 million people in this country, has convinced American voters to give him another term in the White House.

After a campaign marked by nativism, open bigotry, and aspiring authoritarianism, Trump triumphed over Vice President Kamala Harris, despite being denounced by several of those who worked most closely with him in his first term as a ‘fascist’. The 45th president will become the 47th in late January.
Trump’s win demonstrates that the most powerful people in the country are indeed above the law. An elderly, foul-mouthed, racist game-show host can try, in broad daylight, while the TV cameras are fixed on him, to execute a coup d’état in our nation’s capital, people can die from it, and in a few shorts years be rewarded with the full-throated support of his political party, and now the keys to the White House.

No matter what policies Trump does or doesn’t manage to shove through when he takes office in January, there is no doubt that he and his new Justice Department are going to shut down the federal cases against him. He will get away with it all, and his enemies will have to choke on that for the rest of their careers and lives.

And that will just be the beginning.”

I predict a mass exodus to Canada, similar to evading the draft during Vietnam.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,798
8,696
136
Serious question: do you have any idea what the US healthcare system is like? If you don't have insurance you are being charged $3500 or more for an ambulance ride. A fucking ride to the hospital with an EMT and a driver making $20 an hour. Hospital bills in this country literally tell people not to commit suicide. And your boy is going to throw millions of people off their insurance when he kills the ACA. He came a single vote from John McCain from doing it in 2017. This time he will 100% accomplish it.

Yeah, with Americans I know personally, I sometimes suggest (as I'm dealing with horrendous NHS waiting lists myself) that at least with a mostly-private insurance-based system you don't get rationing-by-waiting-list so at least they can be seen quickly, even if it costs a fortune. Only it turns out they seem to have to wait just as long as I do, because there's still a shortage of the right specialists and equipment, depending on which part of the country you are in, and there's a long period of wrangling with the insurance companies before they will pay for things.

The big problem with a state controlled system, though, is that it can be easily undermined from within whenever a right-wing government gets in. They under-fund it and impose endless pointless 'reorganizations' on it, till it becomes near non-functional, and then they say 'look it's not working, let's just privatize everything'.

A classic example was an article in the Daily Mail about the incompetence and uselessness of the new NHS phone helpline service - which led to a string of Daily Mail reader comments about this being an example of the failure of state healthcare and how it showed it all needed to be privatised. All of them missing the little detail that this failing service had _already_ been contracted-out to a private company, and that was one of the reasons why it was failing.
 
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,715
12,748
126
www.anyf.ca
I could spend all day trying to reply to everything but it's pointless arguing on the internet and I have better things to do. Reality is, more than half of Americans who went out to vote, voted for Trump, so clearly, he was the better choice. Actually it could be some of those voters were not American, considering some states don't even require ID. That is a problem. A big problem, but that's a whole other topic.

As for health care, I think it's one of the things we have here that is better. It could use serious improvements though, but not having to worry about if I can afford health care is a thing I'm willing to pay taxes for. The issue I have with taxes in general is the fact that we pay way too much, and only a small part of what we pay actually goes towards things like health care while rest is blown on stupid crap and corruption. Like Arrivescam. There is so much waste it's unbelievable. Even within the health care system itself there is lot of waste. That's more a provincial issue though but either way, it's our taxes being wasted. I worked in health care IT for a bit and I've put stuff in the garbage that would be worth more than a house if it had been sold on ebay. But nope, has to go to trash, it's policy.

And for abortion, that's up to the states now isn't it? Trump's stance is pretty reasonable, he agrees with exceptions for edge cases which seems reasonable to me.

Have to scroll pretty far but he said it on his official Youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@DonaldJTrumpforPresident/community
Included screenshot but you can go find it if you think I doctored it.
 

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,964
51,459
136
Making life more expensive is not going to stop the pollution. Especially when we represent <2% of world emissions. There are things that could change but they need to happen at the top. Individuals do not have control over things like how things get shipped or where things are manufactured. At the end of the day we still need to heat our homes, drive to work, and eat. There are some things one can do such as getting a wood stove like I did, but that involves a large capital expense. Getting an EV is even more out of reach for most. The carbon tax is basically punishing us for simply living our lives.
Trump has promised to make life more expensive. You say you don’t like that. Can you explain the discordance?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,964
51,459
136
It’s a weird thing how usually republicans were bait and switch. Here it’s not.

Trump has told America he’s going to cut food assistance for poor people and drive up mortgage rates for middle class people so that he can give rich people more money.

If anyone has a question as to how I arrived at this conclusion I would be happy to discuss. @Greenman in particular I know you thought better policy compensated for all the felonies, rapes, and coups so I would be particularly interested to discuss this with you.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,326
8,705
136
I could spend all day trying to reply to everything but it's pointless arguing on the internet and I have better things to do.
Going to give up and hand-wave away all the criticism. Why even participate in a discussion forum?
Reality is, more than half of Americans who went out to vote, voted for Trump, so clearly, he was the better choice.
"More desired" would be more accurate description. "Better" is laughable by almost every objective measure.
Actually it could be some of those voters were not American, considering some states don't even require ID. That is a problem. A big problem, but that's a whole other topic.
Do you think there is some Dr. Evil style plot for people to impersonate voters? You also have to provide proof you are who you say you are and live where you live when you register to vote, so lack of ID isn't really a big deal. We also don't have a national ID system, and elections are the purview of the states. Further, it's pretty clear from the history of voter ID laws and the IDs states tend to allow that they are built on disenfranchising legitimate voters, and not actually concerned with voting integrity.
As for health care, I think it's one of the things we have here that is better. It could use serious improvements though, but not having to worry about if I can afford health care is a thing I'm willing to pay taxes for. The issue I have with taxes in general is the fact that we pay way too much, and only a small part of what we pay actually goes towards things like health care while rest is blown on stupid crap and corruption. Like Arrivescam. There is so much waste it's unbelievable. Even within the health care system itself there is lot of waste. That's more a provincial issue though but either way, it's our taxes being wasted. I worked in health care IT for a bit and I've put stuff in the garbage that would be worth more than a house if it had been sold on ebay. But nope, has to go to trash, it's policy.
So your taxes sometimes pay for projects that don't pan out. Big deal. You act like your taxes are paying for tons of corruption, hand wave at two things that are probably drops in the bucket, and go on your merry way.

And for abortion, that's up to the states now isn't it? Trump's stance is pretty reasonable, he agrees with exceptions for edge cases which seems reasonable to me.

Have to scroll pretty far but he said it on his official Youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@DonaldJTrumpforPresident/community
Included screenshot but you can go find it if you think I doctored it.
As has been pointed out to you: "life of the mother" is complete bullshit. It completely ignores "health of the mother", and has led to people being unable to get the care they need in times of crisis. Plus, it's also nobody's fucking business but the person carrying the fetus and their doctor. Stop being a weirdo and MYOB.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,537
21,765
136
Trump has promised to make life more expensive. You say you don’t like that. Can you explain the discordance?
oh come on. you know squirrel by now. or do you? but seriously, try it for a second.

just type in 'fuck you, you goddamn Canadian Nazi. I can't take your pure and utter stupidity anymore - you are so fucking dumb you make @Greenman look almost smart! stfu up already and get to your clear cut natural off the grid oasis you dumb fucking pathologically lying prick!'

look I typed that fast so it isn't as polished as some of my better ones, but still, give it a go. don't suppress reality anymore!
 
Reactions: pcgeek11

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,057
2,624
136
This election, like all of them, was more about personality than issues. But to the extent it was about issues at all, it wasn't about the economy. Trump barely even discussed the economy this past month. It was about immigrants and transexuals. Because half the country thinks they need a strongman to protect them from these groups they fear and hate.

As developing nations go, we are a rather backward, ill educated people. Those who do not have much contact with such people in their daily lives may find this shocking. Those of us who do are unsurprised.

We are getting exactly what we deserve. America is an embarrassment, a disgrace. We have been for a while now. The only reason I remain is because of family. But when my mother passes I'm going to find a way to leave and never look back.

It's sad, really. There was a time I was proud to be an American and proud of America, warts and all. That is a distant memory.
The economy actually isn't bad by most metrics. It is what it is.
Personally I've been eyeballing Spain, portugal and thailand for retirement but I still have some 20+ years to go I think so I'll just ride this one out.

The single largest things the Dems can be blamed for in the last four years is letting Biden steamroll the primary due to his ego. The guy who said he would be a bridge to all the young leaders behind him. But not enough of the right people could stand up to that man's ego.

As far as this campaign it had to be Kamala after Biden dropped out - again his fault we were ever in this situation. Considering the absolute shit show Biden's ego left us with - the aftermath could not have gone better to switch to Kamala. And she was quite a good candidate at the end of the day with literally just being thrown into it - but obviously not nearly enough to overcome the insane wall she had to climb, in general and as a woman of color. And as far as most of the rest of the Democrat's problems, it's years of the massive right wing mediasphere, and mainstream media also just not reporting honestly on all the shit Republicans were doing, straight up to now with Trump and sanewashing him. There are other issues but this is the best - when the people are voting for your policy platforms with majorities from minimum wage to weed legalization and abortion rights, but not for you - it's because the party has been separated from its own accomplishments due to a totally fake parallel dimension created by those who create the news narrative.
I never thought she was a good candidate. When she ran a few years ago, she was one of the worst polling individuals and when Biden won I thought he won despite her and not because of her. I think she'd have made a fine president, no doubt about it. But the average person makes decisions oddly not on competency but who they'd like to have a beer with. Kamala's main issue is she just isn't very likable.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,600
2,977
136
That's because that's how people want to live. You seem to be suggesting those people should be punished via more taxes which is ridiculous.

Those who want to live in denser environments can move there. No one is removing that choice.
Dude STFU you're not being punished. As brain has explained, your lifestyle choices have costs on society and you're simply being asked to pay some of those costs through taxes. Minimize the taxes by minimizing fossil fuel consumption, win win.

Or keep being a whiny bitch like most conservatives.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,648
2,084
136
It’s a weird thing how usually republicans were bait and switch. Here it’s not.

Trump has told America he’s going to cut food assistance for poor people and drive up mortgage rates for middle class people so that he can give rich people more money.

If anyone has a question as to how I arrived at this conclusion I would be happy to discuss. @Greenman in particular I know you thought better policy compensated for all the felonies, rapes, and coups so I would be particularly interested to discuss this with you.

It's interesting, because a lot of his proposals seem to be aimed at increasing class agitation/tensions, ie rich get richer, and poor get poorer.

Isn't that something that they always accuse marxists and socialists of doing? You know, class warfare and all that.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,798
8,696
136
It's interesting, because a lot of his proposals seem to be aimed at increasing class agitation/tensions, ie rich get richer, and poor get poorer.

Isn't that something that they always accuse marxists and socialists of doing? You know, class warfare and all that.

The thing about the class war is that one side fight it ruthlessly, while much of the other side are oblivious to the fact that it's even happening.

That may be especially so in the US, where they even changed the language to further conceal the reality.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,101
3,041
136
It's interesting, because a lot of his proposals seem to be aimed at increasing class agitation/tensions, ie rich get richer, and poor get poorer.

Isn't that something that they always accuse marxists and socialists of doing? You know, class warfare and all that.
Trickle-up Reaganomics isn't class warfare, it's just #winning . The billionaire class is so talented and has earned all of their wealth, so they deserve even more tax breaks.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,459
11,113
136
It's interesting, because a lot of his proposals seem to be aimed at increasing class agitation/tensions, ie rich get richer, and poor get poorer.

Isn't that something that they always accuse marxists and socialists of doing? You know, class warfare and all that.
You seem surprised.
 
Reactions: gothuevos

GunsMadeAmericaFree

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,317
318
136
I wonder if people will keep talking about "The Democrats' Border Wall" going forward. Border fences along the southern border were started under Democrats Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman. The modern "Border Wall" was begun under Democrat Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s. It should be remembered as one of his finest achievements, and a lasting legacy of one of the 20th Century's greatest leaders.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,817
38,760
136
I wonder if people will keep talking about "The Democrats' Border Wall" going forward. Border fences along the southern border were started under Democrats Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman. The modern "Border Wall" was begun under Democrat Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s. It should be remembered as one of his finest achievements, and a lasting legacy of one of the 20th Century's greatest leaders.

It doesn't actually do shit but fuck up wildlife and injure people who of course climb it. But nobody wants to hear that.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,616
29,686
136
I wonder if people will keep talking about "The Democrats' Border Wall" going forward. Border fences along the southern border were started under Democrats Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman. The modern "Border Wall" was begun under Democrat Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s. It should be remembered as one of his finest achievements, and a lasting legacy of one of the 20th Century's greatest leaders.
The fence was to keep cattle from wandering across the border.
 
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