The People Have Spoken

[Red Squirrel]

So your taxes sometimes pay for projects that don't pan out. Big deal. You act like your taxes are paying for tons of corruption, hand wave at two things that are probably drops in the bucket, and go on your merry way.

Big deal?! Really? That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard to justify the government's gross negligence of money. I said I was done here but couldn't help myself. Some of you seem to talk like you don't pay taxes or something, why do you not care about how much the government takes from you, especially when it's wasted? I just don't get how people can be ok with it. It's far from a drop in the bucket when all the taxes at all levels of government combined add up to about 40% of our income and we don't really see much for it, and the things it's suppose to go towards are all crumbling.

Imagine you pay 200k to a contractor to build you a house but that contractor and his friends decide to use your money to go buy beer, buy themselves a boat and other toys and just do random stuff with it, and then you end up with a half finished shed instead. Big deal right? That's basically what the government does with our tax dollars. So many useless pet projects and make work projects that do not benefit the tax payers.

Dude STFU you're not being punished. As brain has explained, your lifestyle choices have costs on society and you're simply being asked to pay some of those costs through taxes. Minimize the taxes by minimizing fossil fuel consumption, win win.

My "lifestyle choices" are very basic life necessities like heating, driving to work and buying groceries, and maybe sometimes I want to drive to somewhere other than work or buy something I don't need, who fucking cares? Keep your nose out of other people's lives. It's not costing society anything, I'm already paying for those things with money I earned and worked for. I should be entitled to enjoy the fruit of my labour without being punished by some extra tax on top of all the taxes that already exist. Typical liberal mindset though, see someone with something nice and first thought is how can we extract extra money from that person. Such an entitled point of view. Making life more expensive than it already is will not make the weather better.

Been enjoying watching the liberal tears and meltdowns though, I can't wait for the same thing here in Canada. It's about time for more common sense in government and to take out the trash. Conservatives are not perfect either but they are the best choice we have out of the main 2 parties.

 

[ch33zw1z]

^ so choose conservativism because it’s the only choice because it’s the only winning choice? The circular logic there is neat.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Or vote for PPC, split the vote, and liberals come in again...

Yeah not chancing that. Strategic voting is a thing. We basically have a 2 party system.

 

[sandorski]

....
.
Been enjoying watching the liberal tears and meltdowns though, I can't wait for the same thing here in Canada. It's about time for more common sense in government and to take out the trash. Conservatives are not perfect either but they are the best choice we have out of the existing choices that have a chance of actually winning.

The depth of Conservatism right there. You were groomed to hate for votes. You're in the matrix bro.

 

[Red Squirrel]

No, the tears is just icing on the cake. The better policies are the real reason to vote that route.

 

[Moonbeam]

Big deal?! Really? That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard to justify the government's gross negligence of money. I said I was done here but couldn't help myself. Some of you seem to talk like you don't pay taxes or something, why do you not care about how much the government takes from you, especially when it's wasted? I just don't get how people can be ok with it. It's far from a drop in the bucket when all the taxes at all levels of government combined add up to about 40% of our income and we don't really see much for it, and the things it's suppose to go towards are all crumbling.

Imagine you pay 200k to a contractor to build you a house but that contractor and his friends decide to use your money to go buy beer, buy themselves a boat and other toys and just do random stuff with it, and then you end up with a half finished shed instead. Big deal right? That's basically what the government does with our tax dollars. So many useless pet projects and make work projects that do not benefit the tax payers.



My "lifestyle choices" are very basic life necessities like heating, driving to work and buying groceries, and maybe sometimes I want to drive to somewhere other than work or buy something I don't need, who fucking cares? Keep your nose out of other people's lives. It's not costing society anything, I'm already paying for those things with money I earned and worked for. I should be entitled to enjoy the fruit of my labour without being punished by some extra tax on top of all the taxes that already exist. Typical liberal mindset though, see someone with something nice and first thought is how can we extract extra money from that person. Such an entitled point of view. Making life more expensive than it already is will not make the weather better.

Been enjoying watching the liberal tears and meltdowns though, I can't wait for the same thing here in Canada. It's about time for more common sense in government and to take out the trash. Conservatives are not perfect either but they are the best choice we have out of the existing choices that have a chance of actually winning.

Boy oh boy did the liberals ever fuck you over.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No, the tears is just icing on the cake. The better policies are the real reason to vote that route.

That’s funny, cuz you stated it was for the winning.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You people sure like to twist words. Fixed it to make it simpler for you.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Imagine you pay 200k to a contractor to build you a house but that contractor and his friends decide to use your money to go buy beer, buy themselves a boat and other toys and just do random stuff with it, and then you end up with a half finished shed instead. Big deal right? That's basically what the government does with our tax dollars. So many useless pet projects and make work projects that do not benefit the tax payers.

No, that would be outright corruption, which happens rarely. Normal 'taxpayer shit didn't play out' is more like 'we bought some clothes from a place with no return policy, and they don't fit. Whoops'.
EDIT: that happens rarely in the US anyhow. If it happens a bunch in Canada, maybe you all should get your shit together.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You people sure like to twist words. Fixed it to make it simpler for you.

IOW - we still consider words to have meanings resembling those you may find in a dictionary.

Kinda like when someone calls the Republican Party fascist and then republicans respond by calling democrats fascist. Here’s the definition

fascism /făsh′ĭz″əm/

noun​

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

So when they say this in reply, they’re accusing democrats of being fascist, as well as communist and socialist because that’s what we always hear. This is the low bar republicans set for their own understanding of the world around them.

 

[Greenman]

The depth of Conservatism right there. You were groomed to hate for votes. You're in the matrix bro.

You've apparently never read through P&N.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You've apparently never read through P&N.

This should be good! Please show how Democrats are fostering an environment of hate and gaining votes for it.

 

[sandorski]

You've apparently never read through P&N.

Exhibit B

 

[trenchfoot]

I wonder if people will keep talking about "The Democrats' Border Wall" going forward. Border fences along the southern border were started under Democrats Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman. The modern "Border Wall" was begun under Democrat Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s. It should be remembered as one of his finest achievements, and a lasting legacy of one of the 20th Century's greatest leaders.

The act of building walls have myriad reasons for building them. To say that there's similarities between Roosevelt, Truman, Carter and Trump because they built walls is same as saying the reason for building the Berlin Wall is the same as the aforementioned presidents. And now you have the temerity to claim that three presidents built walls for the same reason as Trump is not only ludicrous, it's downright asinine on the face of it.

Trump wants to build His Wall as a perpetual symbol for the hate, fear, suspicion and the advancement of racism and nationalism he projects on a regular basis. It should be pretty obvious to you that a wall across the border isn't going to stop the downtrodden, persecuted and destitute from seeking a better way of life here in the USA so ask yourself why does Trump insist on building that very expensive boondoggle profit purposed wall of his when the stated purpose he claims for it is stupid, silly and has no basis in reality. His racist supporters and rabid protectionists want that wall too, but do you really think they believe the sole purpose of that wall is to keep our border secure? That's a laughable notion and you know it.

Trump and his racist following want that wall built so they can point to it and say "See? Look at that magnificent structure we built that we can all rally around like a modern day Alamo" while the border will be just as pourous as it ever was.

What needs to happen is the passage of the bipartisan border security bill that Trump stopped in it's tracks from passing so he can keep using the issue as a conservative cause célèbre for fomenting hate and fear against the people that he and his dimwitted fascist Neo-Nazi vermin like to feel superior over. But passing a bill like that is not ever going to happen until Trump is out of office and hopefully headed for jail.

 

[JujuFish]

Congrats on voting to make America great again. It was the right choice and soon we will hopefully do the same here in Canada. The pendulum is swinging.

Can you provide a single cogent, objective, truthful argument for why Trump is the right choice?

@Red Squirrel
Still waiting.

Reality is, more than half of Americans who went out to vote, voted for Trump, so clearly, he was the better choice.

So, your answer to my question is apparently, "No, no I cannot provide even a single objective argument. Instead, I'll just use a defense that also applies to Hitler."

 

[Greenman]

The act of building walls have myriad reasons for building them. To say that there's similarities between Roosevelt, Truman, Carter and Trump because they built walls is same as saying the reason for building the Berlin Wall is the same as the aforementioned presidents. And now you have the temerity to claim that three presidents built walls for the same reason as Trump is not only ludicrous, it's downright asinine on the face of it.

Trump wants to build His Wall as a perpetual symbol for the hate, fear, suspicion and the advancement of racism and nationalism he projects on a regular basis. It should be pretty obvious to you that a wall across the border isn't going to stop the downtrodden, persecuted and destitute from seeking a better way of life here in the USA so ask yourself why does Trump insist on building that very expensive boondoggle profit purposed wall of his when the stated purpose he claims for it is stupid, silly and has no basis in reality. His racist supporters and rabid protectionists want that wall too, but do you really think they believe the sole purpose of that wall is to keep our border secure? That's a laughable notion and you know it.

Trump and his racist following want that wall built so they can point to it and say "See? Look at that magnificent structure we built that we can all rally around like a modern day Alamo" while the border will be just as pourous as it ever was.

What needs to happen is the passage of the bipartisan border security bill that Trump stopped in it's tracks from passing so he can keep using the issue as a conservative cause célèbre for fomenting hate and fear against the people that he and his dimwitted fascist Neo-Nazi vermin like to feel superior over. But passing a bill like that is not ever going to happen until Trump is out of office and hopefully headed for jail.

So many words to draw the wrong conclusion. The first step in securing any outdoor position is to put a fence round it. Schools get fences, parks often have them, construction sites, swimming pools and millions of back yards have fences. A fence is a demarcation, and in some cases the first line of defense, or containment, it's not an impenetrable barrier.
The majority of Americans want the border secured, they want immigration to be controlled and immigrants to be vetted. This isn't unreasonable or based on hate, it's proper government.

 

[K1052]

The majority of Americans want the border secured, they want immigration to be controlled and immigrants to be vetted. This isn't unreasonable or based on hate, it's proper government.

The refusal of Republicans to compromise at all on immigration reform for the last decade and a half at least because the politics were good for them is not "proper government". The US benefits enormously from migration since you have millions of people paying taxes that often cannot access the services they pay for, this is especially true for Medicare and SS. If they go their economic activity and these contributions go also. People are simply unable to comprehend the idea of tradeoffs until its too late.

 

[Greenman]

The refusal of Republicans to compromise at all on immigration reform for the last decade and a half at least because the politics were good for them is not "proper government". The US benefits enormously from migration since you have millions of people paying taxes that often cannot access the services they pay for, this is especially true for Medicare and SS. If they go their economic activity and these contributions go also. People are simply unable to comprehend the idea of tradeoffs until its too late.

This is incorrect. People here illegally don't pay taxes as they have to be paid in cash. When they get sick or injured they go to the hospital, get treated, and don't pay. That cost is passed on as increased cost to the rest of us.
I don't have any issue with immigration, I do have an issue with illegal immigration.

 

[IronWing]

This is incorrect. People here illegally don't pay taxes as they have to be paid in cash. When they get sick or injured they go to the hospital, get treated, and don't pay. That cost is passed on as increased cost to the rest of us.
I don't have any issue with immigration, I do have an issue with illegal immigration.

Those costs are accruing as profits to the employers, not the immigrants. Sending employers to prison never seems to be an option.

 

[Paratus]

So many words to draw the wrong conclusion. The first step in securing any outdoor position is to put a fence round it. Schools get fences, parks often have them, construction sites, swimming pools and millions of back yards have fences. A fence is a demarcation, and in some cases the first line of defense, or containment, it's not an impenetrable barrier.
The majority of Americans want the border secured, they want immigration to be controlled and immigrants to be vetted. This isn't unreasonable or based on hate, it's proper government.

So why was immigration not worth dealing with for republicans the last four years but it is now?

I’m also curious, back when you were working construction (I think that’s what you said) how did you vet your crews for citizenship status?

 

[K1052]

This is incorrect. People here illegally don't pay taxes as they have to be paid in cash. When they get sick or injured they go to the hospital, get treated, and don't pay. That cost is passed on as increased cost to the rest of us.
I don't have any issue with immigration, I do have an issue with illegal immigration.

This is fantastic. You really have no idea how this actually works fiscally.

 

[Greenman]

Those costs are accruing as profits to the employers, not the immigrants. Sending employers to prison never seems to be an option.

The fines are steep, $25,00 each back when I had employees. I had one fellow who provided me with a fake SS number. It took a while, but I was notified that it was an invalid number and had to supply all of the documentation I had on him. Not long after that the EDD, the CSLB, and Cal OSHA showed up at my jobsite and interviewed everyone on my crew. So my opinion is that there is enforcement, just not enough of it.

 

[Greenman]

So why was immigration not worth dealing with for republicans the last four years but it is now?

I’m also curious, back when you were working construction (I think that’s what you said) how did you vet your crews for citizenship status?

I don't know why the republican's didn't deal with immigration, not a single one of them asked me for advice.
I didn't vet my employees for residency status, the EDD does that. There were forms I had to supply, those included the persons SS# among other information. It was only an issue once and I had no problems because all of my paperwork was correct.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

This isn't unreasonable or based on hate, it's proper government.

Then why do republicans keep voting no on it?

 

[Viper1j]

So, your answer to my question is apparently, "No, no I cannot provide even a single objective argument. Instead, I'll just use a defense that also applies to Hitler."

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Most likely, it's not a duck billed platypus.