The Playstation 4 Rumours, Innuendo, and Speculation thread

[gorcorps]

What's with people and expecting backwards compatibility nowadays? How many other consoles in history had it? Not many.

True story. Nobody bitched that the SNES didn't play NES games. Why are we so demanding now? Sony started that crap with the PS2 playing PSX games and now we expect it on everything.

 

[reallyscrued]

True story. Nobody bitched that the SNES didn't play NES games. Why are we so demanding now? Sony started that crap with the PS2 playing PSX games and now we expect it on everything.

Why are we so demanding now?

...because it would be quite easy for them to implement it. Random people around the world reverse engineered a Playstation and PS2 and wrote software that lets you play games on your PC at any resolution you wish. I'm pretty certain Sony (with all their schematics and programming logic on tap for its previous consoles) could write their own emulator for the PS4 and let us play PS1/PS2 games at HD resolutions but instead, there's more money in remaking games.

Same thing with Nintendo; the emulator Dolphin can render Wii/GCN games at glorious 1080p on any high end computer today

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121&page=22

and I'm sure Nintendo could add such options in the WiiU, at least to play Wii games in 720p with some AA, but are they going to do it? Not likely. It's all a money grab.

 

[zerocool84]

Why are we so demanding now?

...because it would be quite easy for them to implement it. Random people around the world reverse engineered a Playstation and PS2 and wrote software that lets you play games on your PC at any resolution you wish. I'm pretty certain Sony (with all their schematics and programming logic on tap for its previous consoles) could write their own emulator for the PS4 and let us play PS1/PS2 games at HD resolutions but instead, there's more money in remaking games.

Same thing with Nintendo; the emulator Dolphin can render Wii/GCN games at glorious 1080p on any high end computer today

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121&page=22

and I'm sure Nintendo could add such options in the WiiU, at least to play Wii games in 720p with some AA, but are they going to do it? Not likely. It's all a money grab.

But as we've seen, it costs more to have backwards compatibility and I'd take a cheaper console any day over one with BC.

 

[American Gunner]

But as we've seen, it costs more to have backwards compatibility and I'd take a cheaper console any day over one with BC.

I agree with you on this. There have been very few old gen games that I have had any interest in playing.

 

[Todd33]

Sony and the others have sen the research and polls, they no very few care about BC. They just don't see a reason to spend the money on it. I know 7+ people with PS3s and none of them care about PS2 games, period.

 

[RampantAndroid]

-It will have an AMD x64 CPU
-It will not be backwards compatible with PS3 games

If the first is true - an AMD x86 CPU, then the second will be true, I imagine. Why can't these guys settle on a CPU architecture and be done already....

 

[Anteaus]

If the first is true - an AMD x86 CPU, then the second will be true, I imagine. Why can't these guys settle on a CPU architecture and be done already....

I think they have settled on one. They haven't officially announced the specs yet and they won't until they lock down every major component, and even then not until much much closer to release so that they have time to change things up if they run into a major problem.

Given the PR environment, if I was Sony I wouldn't tell anyone either, at least not until the official product announcement with release date.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I think they have settled on one. They haven't officially announced the specs yet and they won't until they lock down every major component, and even then not until much much closer to release so that they have time to change things up if they run into a major problem.

Given the PR environment, if I was Sony I wouldn't tell anyone either, at least not until the official product announcement with release date.

When I say settle on one, I mean...

PS1: MIPS.
PS2: Custom in house MIPS implementation
PS3: Power PC with tons of cores that people barely used.
PS4: AMD, which I assume means x86, AMD64 based.

3 architectures in 4 revisions.

 

[Anteaus]

When I say settle on one, I mean...

PS1: MIPS.
PS2: Custom in house MIPS implementation
PS3: Power PC with tons of cores that people barely used.
PS4: AMD, which I assume means x86, AMD64 based.

3 architectures in 4 revisions.

Yes, but since the PS4 is expected to be x86, the options are even more predictable. The PS4 and 720 are expected to be even more "PC like" than their prior generations were. I would even go so far as to say they will differ primarily in high level programming. At the low level they are just going to be small form factor PCs with virtually identical performance. Basically, they will be HTPCs with proprietary gaming interfaces.

I'd be very interested to see if someone can get Windows running on them similar to how we get OSX running on PCs. All you'd need is someone to write some drivers.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Yes, but since the PS4 is expected to be x86, the options are even more predictable. The PS4 and 720 are expected to be even more "PC like" than their prior generations were. I would even go so far as to say they will differ primarily in high level programming. At the low level they are just going to be small form factor PCs with virtually identical performance. Basically, they will be HTPCs with proprietary gaming interfaces.

I'd be very interested to see if someone can get Windows running on them similar to how we get OSX running on PCs. All you'd need is someone to write some drivers.

Well, for the new XBox, I doubt it. Code signing will still be a core issue, and afaik no one has cracked the signing on the current xbox.

x86 does bring more to the table, but the first xbox WAS x86 and then jumped over to power PC, which is why I'm so bloody confused these days.

 

[Todd33]

When I say settle on one, I mean...

3 architectures in 4 revisions.

Four consoles many years apart. Why would they be similar or related? You use what makes sense at the time of design. The Vita uses a four core Arm A9, it makes sense today, should they use a old design based on another console for any reason? I'm confused at your confusion.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Four consoles many years apart. Why would they be similar or related? You use what makes sense at the time of design. The Vita uses a four core Arm A9, it makes sense today, should they use a old design based on another console for any reason? I'm confused at your confusion.

I'm saying that they should be thinking about backcompat when designing NOW. That is to say, if you suspect you'll want x86 in the future or don't see a future in power PC, then you need to not use it, as you get into emulation then. I mean, look at the 360. It has SOME back compat. Some.

It's sad, and stupid. It drives me back to my PC. Only compat issue there is "oh hell it uses glide" or "oh, the installer is 16 bit, wahh"

 

[AE-Ruffy]

But as we've seen, it costs more to have backwards compatibility and I'd take a cheaper console any day over one with BC.

the only reason it cost more is they keep changing the architecture so drastically that the only way to run their old titles is to include the actual hardware form the old system in it.

originally the ps4 was going to be fully backwards compatible as it was still going to use Cell. Just an updated version with a new graphics component. This would reduce cost, and allow devs to continue with the practices they've already learned.

That being said, if PSN titles are compatible(Which I would hope for) then there is no reason for ps3 disc titles not working. We'll see what happens.

 

[RampantAndroid]

the only way to run their old titles is to include the actual hardware form the old system in it.

No. Go look at stuff like Glide wrappers, Dosbox and such. Emulators. You can run a different architecture on another, it's just not efficient, or easy.

 

[waggy]

BC is important to me. Half the games i play are PS2 games. In fact if not for BC i wouldn't have gotten my PS3. I only got it because my PS2 died and the PS3 had BC and blu-ray. To me that was enough to get it.

 

[reallyscrued]

But as we've seen, it costs more to have backwards compatibility and I'd take a cheaper console any day over one with BC.

Costs more...for extra hardware maybe, but why have the hardware when the PS4 is going to be magnitudes more powerful than a PS2 and could easily emulate its games? Instead of spending time and effort into making all the menus flashy and complicated, how about focus on some software features that might actually continue a dynasty of gaming?

No matter. People are going to crack the system within weeks and there will be emulators written for it. It would just be nice to see some official support for what's eventually going to happen anyway.

 

[ManBearPig]

what emulator can play ps1 games at 1080p? doesnt it just upscale them?

 

[fstime]

People bitching about BC are just old geezers living in the past. Keep your PS1 if you want to play PS1 games.

The same people complain about how ugly the next generation of cars look, or use the phrase "back in my day...." to explain how everything used to be better.

The rest of us buy new consoles to enjoy new games.

 

[reallyscrued]

what emulator can play ps1 games at 1080p? doesnt it just upscale them?

Upscaling happens when a lower resolution image is stretched to fit the native resolution of the connection medium or the final display. There will be some filtering possibly added so it's not as nasty as just taking a 640*480 image in paint and stretching it out to fit your monitor.

EDIT: For example, Battlefield 3 on the PS3 renders at only 1280x704 internally, but it 'upscales it' to fit the entire screen on your 1080p capable TV.

In contrast, any and all emulators have the capability of *internally rendering* at any specified resolution. It's the equivalent of going into a PC game and changing the res.

This is Sonic Colors (for the Wii) emulated in Dolphin at 1080p with 4x AA and 16xAF (but downscaled for the jpg.)

Of course, on the Wii itself, it looks nothing close to that.

A lot of this generation's games, even the Wii's, have graphical assets that would look tremendously better with the right filtering and even more so if rendered at the native resolution of the common television (1080p). If they released BC compatibility in any console of the next generation which the capability of playing games from a previous console in HD, I'd be all over it.

Of course, they'd never do it, because you can bet there will be an HD REMAKE EXTRA UBER EDITION of Battlefield 3 remade on the PS4 that will use 1080p as a selling point.

People bitching about BC are just old geezers living in the past. Keep your PS1 if you want to play PS1 games.

The same people complain about how ugly the next generation of cars look, or use the phrase "back in my day...." to explain how everything used to be better.

The rest of us buy new consoles to enjoy new games.

Gee, thanks for your two cents...


Although back in my day, you'd only have to have given one cent.

 

[ManBearPig]

Wow! Holy shit, that looks great. What ps1 emulator do you suggest that does this?

 

[reallyscrued]

Don't know how much emulation talk they allow here, just google the stuff and you'll find what you're looking for.

Beware that you need an amazing PC to run it at those settings, and there are compatibility issues with lots of games (things I don't see being a problem if an emulator was developed in-house by Sony themselves to run on their own hardware)

We're getting a bit off topic here though. Back on topic:

 

[Aikouka]

I believe emulation talk is fine as long as it doesn't include links or talks of where to get illegal content. For example, if I remember correctly, PS2 emulators require a BIOS to work, which has questionable legitimacy.

That Dolphin emulator does look interesting. I've been wanting to play Xenoblade Chronicles, but buying a Wii doesn't interest me that much. I have no problem buying the game to rip it though. I'm going to have to look into that more!

Onto the actual discussion! I haven't used my BC in my older PS3 but I do own some PS2 games, and I've been itching to play a few that either never got HD remakes or next-gen sequels. Shinobi is probably the highest on my list right now. I gave away my PS2, but I have no interest in wasting cabinet space on it anyway!

 

[AE-Ruffy]

PCSX2 emulator has come leaps and bounds. back in 2008/9 Games were pretty much unplayable.

Now-a-days im running PS2 games at 1080p FSAA and the like at a constant 60fps. Currently replaying Kingdom hearts 1. It's like a HD remake. Looks a million times better than the original. Running a 2500k stock and a 9800gtx vid card.

 

[reallyscrued]

PCSX2 emulator has come leaps and bounds. back in 2008/9 Games were pretty much unplayable.

Now-a-days im running PS2 games at 1080p FSAA and the like at a constant 60fps. Currently replaying Kingdom hearts 1. It's like a HD remake. Looks a million times better than the original. Running a 2500k stock and a 9800gtx vid card.

Sounds about right.

Make sure to laugh when they try to sell you the HD Remake 3 years from now for $79.99 plus tax and $14.99 DLC.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Nobody bitched that the SNES didn't play NES games.

Actually, yes they did, badly. In fact, a lot of people thought this was a big factor as to why Sega was able to put themselves on the map during the 16bit generation.

Sony started that crap with the PS2 playing PSX games and now we expect it on everything.

I'm assuming you are younger then 13?

WiiU-Wii
3DS-DS
PS3-PS2
Wii-GCN
XB360-XB
PS2-PS1
DS-GBA
GBA-GBC
SNES-GB
GBC-GB
Atari 7800-Atari 2600
Colecovision- Atari 2600*
Intellivision II- Intellivision I *and* Atari 2600

A couple of notable issues from *slightly* prior to the PS1- The Atari 5200 was a failure mainly because it was incapable of playing Atari 2600 games. The 7800 hit after the crash, but still had greater success in marketplace acceptance. ColecoVision and Intellivision both played Atari 2600 games depending on the exact setup you had for your console, at the time it was extremely strange, today the lawsuits that would fly at the implication of such a thing is daunting to consider. Still, for gamers on a budget back in the day this was a hefty incentive to grab one of the competitors over the, at the time, all powerful 2600.