The problem with being "evil" in games

[Kalmah]

There are many games that allow you to be an evil archetype but I feel like they all fail at their core.

Most of the games tend to be dnd-type games such as neverwinter nights. But you also have some other games like Tropico where the illusion of being an evil dictator fades as the game slowly guides you to doing good things for your people or your economy naturally fails.

I think the problem is that it's always easier to be 'good'. But that's not how evil naturally works, it should be easier to be evil, thus making 'good' a harder thing to accomplish, requiring sacrifice of some sort. Instead you are constantly rewarded with quest rewards for doing good things over and over again. If you try to stay in character as evil, you just don't get a quest reward and forfeit additional benefits.

In Tropico 4, you end up with so much money you realize it's more economically feasible to just go ahead and build those churches rather than sustain a large army and prisons/labor camps. It's easier to be good.

/just some thoughts about wanting to actually play something as evil.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

I always thought that being Dark in KOTOR always seemed forced and dumb so I never was able to play through dark side, I ALWAYS did light.

Most games I've played seem like this as well.

 

[Red Storm]

The problem with evil in video games is that they only seem to understand the "black and white" version of evil, which is unrealistic and dumb (star wars is like this). Real life is shades of gray, which very few video games manage to capture well.

 

[Martimus]

I feel that the games follow real life in that regard. If you are selfish and do bad things to others, you will gain short term benefits, but are likely to reap long term problems. Those that you stepped on won't help you when you need it, and aren't going to fall for your tricks a second or third time. You will gain a reputation as someone who cannot be trusted, and no-one will assist you. If a game makes being evil have no consequences, then that is just plain unrealistic.

 

[Martimus]

The problem with evil in video games is that they only seem to understand the "black and white" version of evil, which is unrealistic and dumb (star wars is like this). Real life is shades of gray, which very few video games manage to capture well.

I felt that the Witcher and the Witcher 2 did a pretty good job at this. Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas did an ok job at this as well, although they were a little more hokey. I can't think of any others off the top of my head though.

 

[Red Storm]

I feel that the games follow real life in that regard. If you are selfish and do bad things to others, you will gain short term benefits, but are likely to reap long term problems. Those that you stepped on won't help you when you need it, and aren't going to fall for your tricks a second or third time. You will gain a reputation as someone who cannot be trusted, and no-one will assist you. If a game makes being evil have no consequences, then that is just plain unrealistic.

The problem with video games though, is that it more often than not ends up like this:

NPC: "Help me!"

"Evil" choice: "No."

"Good" choice: "Okay!" *Cue additional story/content/rewards*

Too often in games being "evil" simply means missing out on additional content.

 

[gorobei]

you could more or less be a dick(evil) in master of orion. take over other empires planets, raid the local resource credits, let them retake the planet, rinse repeat. the price you would pay would be threats of war and occasional reciprocal raids, but you could bribe or threaten your way out of that if you werent strong enough to fend off the attack.

there's no way to predict all behaviors and outcomes in a singleplayer game, so any outcome/consequence will be pretty polar. if you want the opportunity to be a dick/selfish/exploitive, play a multiplayer game.

 

[Stuka87]

I actually cannot think of a single game where being evil was well done. Even in a game like Black and White where it was supposed to be more open ended, you were still kind of pointed in a general direction.

Really what we need is a game which has a story that is in a tree structure. So different choices really affect the game, and you get different choices as you progress. The more "evil" choices results in fewer good choices being available. So typically most players are in the grey, and you have to choose to be very evil or very good.

 

[DaveSimmons]

KOTOR _2_ did a great job on the dark side, but Obsidian made it much deeper than the mustache-twirling and puppy-kicking that Bioware used in 1.

In 2 there was some of that, but also discussions about power with Kreia, influence on your companions to shift them to dark side, and quests where being evil did get you increased power.

One of my favorite sidequests on Dantooine gives you the chance to earn an extra lightsaber, that you badly need for yourself or a companion at that point in the game. You can't buy sabers at any price, so I've given in to the dark side even when playing a light side character. The quest made me fight against my own nature in real life and in the game.

 

[Nintendesert]

I think evil was well done in Evil Genius. I blended those good guys real good!

 

[shortylickens]

In any Bethesda game you are always welcome to massacre everything you see and take over the world for yourself.

 

[Maximilian]

There are many games that allow you to be an evil archetype but I feel like they all fail at their core.

Most of the games tend to be dnd-type games such as neverwinter nights. But you also have some other games like Tropico where the illusion of being an evil dictator fades as the game slowly guides you to doing good things for your people or your economy naturally fails.

I think the problem is that it's always easier to be 'good'. But that's not how evil naturally works, it should be easier to be evil, thus making 'good' a harder thing to accomplish, requiring sacrifice of some sort. Instead you are constantly rewarded with quest rewards for doing good things over and over again. If you try to stay in character as evil, you just don't get a quest reward and forfeit additional benefits.

In Tropico 4, you end up with so much money you realize it's more economically feasible to just go ahead and build those churches rather than sustain a large army and prisons/labor camps. It's easier to be good.

/just some thoughts about wanting to actually play something as evil.

Do both No reason you cant satisfy needs and maintain a large oppressive military presence. You can then save the game when you feel like it (lol simcity 5) then maybe raise rent and lower wages so everyone ends up homeless and joins the rebels, then have yourself an all out war in the streets!

 

[Eureka]

In DoW2:CR, pretty much the same problem... it sort of guides you towards the good side. In order to fully max out evil, you have to 'fail' missions rather than actually be evil... which usually means sitting there and letting those 20-30 minute countdown timers run out or wait for NPCs to die instead of doing something evil. And then the actual bonuses are kind of lame, because some of the best wargear is "pure".

You could try Spec Ops: The Line. You really feel crummy by the time you're done.

 

[Childs]

It was pretty cool in inFamous. Being a bad guy in that game was like being a true super villain.

 

[motsm]

The problem with video games though, is that it more often than not ends up like this:

NPC: "Help me!"

"Evil" choice: "No."

"Good" choice: "Okay!" *Cue additional story/content/rewards*

Too often in games being "evil" simply means missing out on additional content.

This has been my experience as well. Some games will give you the option of killing the NPC for the reward, but you're still out the quest, which is obviously a much funner option.

 

[TheSlamma]

Dungeon Keeper 1 & 2

 

[Elixer]

The problem with video games though, is that it more often than not ends up like this:

NPC: "Help me!"

"Evil" choice: "No."

"Good" choice: "Okay!" *Cue additional story/content/rewards*

Too often in games being "evil" simply means missing out on additional content.

I can see the idiots in DC get all over the publisher if they made the "evil" route better than the "good" one.

Heck, they already call FPS games murder simulators.

 

[Wardawg1001]

I think the primary problem is that you are playing the 'hero' role in most games. Its hard to really feel evil as you are running around doing quests to save mankind (or alienkind, depending on the game), even if you are killing innocent people and stealing stuff while you do it. To really allow for someone to be evil, your character has to be more of a bystander in the story of the game. Fallout: New Vegas had a great platform for this, though they didnt capitalize on it quite as well as they could have in my opinion. I feel like the concept of a moral grey-area is really essential as well, the good and evil options shouldn't always be obvious, and there needs to be different levels of good and evil presented (i.e. you shouldn't be presented with just two black/white options, such as 'hand over the stolen property you recovered' versus 'keep it for yourself', its just too simple).

 

[The Boston Dangler]

I feel that the games follow real life in that regard. If you are selfish and do bad things to others, you will gain short term benefits, but are likely to reap long term problems. Those that you stepped on won't help you when you need it, and aren't going to fall for your tricks a second or third time. You will gain a reputation as someone who cannot be trusted, and no-one will assist you. If a game makes being evil have no consequences, then that is just plain unrealistic.

that sounds very much not how the world works.

 

[Kalmah]

The problem with video games though, is that it more often than not ends up like this:

NPC: "Help me!"

"Evil" choice: "No."

"Good" choice: "Okay!" *Cue additional story/content/rewards*

Too often in games being "evil" simply means missing out on additional content.

This is exactly the problem. There is no branch to dictate what happens next. It just ends.

On the other hand, in neverwinter nights in the SOU expansion, in the beginning you save a baby from a kobold and give it back to its mother. Bioware stated in their forum that originally you were able to sell the baby to the red wizard of thay that was lingering about, but the publisher made them remove that part. So instead, what we get is to be good you rescue the baby, to be bad you just walk off and get nothing in return, which is exactly what you described.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Kotor 2 did a good job.

Dragon Age Origins was ok as a bad guy IIRC.

 

[BladeVenom]

Too often in games being "evil" simply means missing out on additional content.

And experience points and gold.

RPGs need more evil quests, that only an evil character would do.

 

[lothar]

There are many games that allow you to be an evil archetype but I feel like they all fail at their core.

Most of the games tend to be dnd-type games such as neverwinter nights. But you also have some other games like Tropico where the illusion of being an evil dictator fades as the game slowly guides you to doing good things for your people or your economy naturally fails.

I think the problem is that it's always easier to be 'good'. But that's not how evil naturally works, it should be easier to be evil, thus making 'good' a harder thing to accomplish, requiring sacrifice of some sort. Instead you are constantly rewarded with quest rewards for doing good things over and over again. If you try to stay in character as evil, you just don't get a quest reward and forfeit additional benefits.

In Tropico 4, you end up with so much money you realize it's more economically feasible to just go ahead and build those churches rather than sustain a large army and prisons/labor camps. It's easier to be good.

/just some thoughts about wanting to actually play something as evil.

Sounds to me like you need to play Galactic Civilizations II and use the Drengin Empire.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i thought The Witcher 2 did a fantastic job of having you make morally grey choices. i know i spent a long-ass time on some of the major plotline decisions.

 

[Newbian]

Dungeon Keeper 1 & 2

Just coming to say it for dk2.

Slapping your minions for rewards is always fun.