The Problem With Europe

[Czar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Forsythe

We are not disarmed in the face of authoriatism. We have none in europe. The united states have authoriatism, Bush is doing a great job towards that. Our belief in the government refers to moderation. We see no reason to run amok, we see reasons to change things.

Open your eyes! No authoriatism in Europe? LOL

they are everywhere

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Look at all the hate against Europe and the rest of the world shown by him and some of the other Americans on here. How can he complain about others thinking America sux when his opinion to the rest of the world is exactly the same? How is hate against Americans 'racism' in the first place? Americans are not a race. Otherwise hate against Europeans would also be racism, wouldn't it?

Where an I complaining about people stating that America 'sux'? I always state that it's a good thing to have people to be critical, yet many supremacists cannot accept criticism of something they are somewhat related to. Where did you even get the idea that hate against Americans is racism? I never even said anything like that in my post (the first one)... I didn't even refer to America in it!

There is Muslim fundamentalism in Europe, and they are fighting it harder and harder. They don't however protect the Saudi banks who fund the terrorists, nor did most of the European countries fund, equip and train the Taliban, Al Qaida and Iraq. Unlike the US. So don't whine if the extremists turn on you, and don't whine that no one is helping the US, as a lot of European countries still have soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, to clean up the mess the US created in the first place. (First by helping dictators to power, then by kicking down the government and not taking enough precautions to prevent the followers of that government to organize and fight a guerilla war)

LOL, many European countries support, train, equip, etc. these regimes. The US equipped and trained the Taliban? LOL

Most Europeans don't have much against the average American, most do however have something against your government. We understand that the average American likes things plain and simple, and therefor immediately forgot being lied to by Bush & Co. WMDs? Links between Saddam and Al Qaida? Constitutional ban on homosexual marriage? Do you trust what Bush and his friends tell you about Europe? Or about all the countries which Bush now puts among the 'Axis of Evil'?

Most people in the world have problems with the European sense of supremacy. Rarely criticize themselves, compeltely uninformed about their own government's activities, bully others, etc.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Forsythe

We are not disarmed in the face of authoriatism. We have none in europe. The united states have authoriatism, Bush is doing a great job towards that. Our belief in the government refers to moderation. We see no reason to run amok, we see reasons to change things.

Open your eyes! No authoriatism in Europe? LOL

they are everywhere

obviously

 

[RabidMongoose]

We are repulsed by your guns, religion, not your power. The way you use your power. We do not want to change your ways, we just believe in moderation. Blunt force is old, it's outdated, it belonged to the middle ages. America, is the outdated country here. We don't mind your low taxes, your lack of social security. What we do mind is your blunt stupidity.

That sounds nice, but I honestly hope that you are not that naive. European countries don't believe in moderation in employing their powers - it is restricted to moderation through their current status.

I know that you probably want to think that European countries are nice and benevolent forces in the world that want to feed all of the homeless children in the world and while giving away free candy and bringing smiles to everyone, but that's so damn ridiculous. What the hell in all of history (we are talking about the group that has the single most blood on their hands) and current times says that European countries would not employ full use of their power?

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Forsythe

We are not disarmed in the face of authoriatism. We have none in europe. The united states have authoriatism, Bush is doing a great job towards that. Our belief in the government refers to moderation. We see no reason to run amok, we see reasons to change things.

Open your eyes! No authoriatism in Europe? LOL

they are everywhere

obviously

What? Not rebelling is not the same as submissing. Authoriatism? wtf?

Oh, quit going "LOL" all the time, post some sticky's.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Forsythe

We are not disarmed in the face of authoriatism. We have none in europe. The united states have authoriatism, Bush is doing a great job towards that. Our belief in the government refers to moderation. We see no reason to run amok, we see reasons to change things.

Open your eyes! No authoriatism in Europe? LOL

they are everywhere

obviously

What? Not rebelling is not the same as submissing. Authoriatism? wtf?

Oh, quit going "LOL" all the time, post some sticky's.

Ummm... what?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Where an I complaining about people stating that America 'sux'? I always state that it's a good thing to have people to be critical, yet many supremacists cannot accept criticism of something they are somewhat related to. Where did you even get the idea that hate against Americans is racism? I never even said anything like that in my post (the first one)... I didn't even refer to America in it!

What is the 'racism' remark based on then? Hate in Europe is currently strongly focussed on Muslim fundamentalists and Bush.

LOL, many European countries support, train, equip, etc. these regimes. The US equipped and trained the Taliban? LOL

Ever heard of the CIA?

Most people in the world have problems with the European sense of supremacy. Rarely criticize themselves, compeltely uninformed about their own government's activities, bully others, etc.

Hahaha... I think that should read 'American' rather than 'European'. You can't be that dumb, now can you?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Most people in the world have problems with the European sense of supremacy. Rarely criticize themselves, compeltely uninformed about their own government's activities, bully others, etc.

see, this again applies to everyone, having an outside perspective is very important, thats why the US should listen more to us Europeans and the other way around

but in general I think more people in the world have a problem with US sense of supremacy, and basicly everything you wrote there... sooo...
"Most people in the world have problems with the US sense of supremacy. Rarely criticize themselves, compeltely uninformed about their own government's activities, bully others, etc"
.. cool, accurate as well

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Most people in the world have problems with the European sense of supremacy. Rarely criticize themselves, compeltely uninformed about their own government's activities, bully others, etc.

"sense of supremacy"? Uh, that line of thinking pretty much died in the 80s around the same time the USSR started falling appart. I've traveled quiet a bit and talked to people here in europe and in the U.S and I can tell you that they aren't all that different. Most people are just going about there lives. You seem to be picking out the extremes and then painting all of europe as some kind of den of rasists and bigots. But it doesn't really surprise me. You like to over-generalize now a days. Ignoring the fact that europe isn't one country, but a continent with many different countries and places. Some bad some good.

But I agree with you that there's still some rasism in europe. Hell, there's still rasism in the U.S as well. And this needs to be fixed. People need to be more tolerant of others. But from my point of view, rasism is in decline (At least in the places I've lived). Quite frankly, the view you have of europe seems to be somewhat distorted and based on how peoples mindset was in the 80s or before.

As for reform or changes. Most european countires now a days have either reformed or are in the process. Though the countries that were part of the USSR are still lagging behind a bit.

 

[MajorCaliber]

We're just a bunch of gun and Jesus loving fat people addicted to imported electronics and foreign oil. Or at least you red staters are.

Talk about hatred and stereotypes!

 

[0roo0roo]

nor did most of the European countries fund, equip and train the Taliban, Al Qaida and Iraq.

? are u ignorant?

what side of the cold war was europe on eh?

who sold and built saddams nuclear reactors?

could it be france?

nooo.......

frankly your hands are far dirtier then you'd admit, and thats the problem. hell...most of the problems stem from europe to begin with. time to stfu with the whole moral superiorty act.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
hell...most of the problems stem from europe to begin with.

France and England to be exact. These two countries have done a lot of damage in the past. The Middle East being one of the places they helped fvck up. Then later the USSR and U.S picked up their slack to fvck it up even more.

time to stfu with the whole moral superiorty act.

Couldn't agree more. Time for people to stop acting as if they are somehow better then everyone else. No country could claim to have the moral high ground without looking like hypocrites ignoring the past actions of their own country.

 

[nCred]

The OP proves again that arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
There's a problem in Old Europe. The Euro-Elites are facing a great obstacle they so wish to
subdue. They are not threatened by radical Islamic extremism, an empowered Russia, or anything
else like that... they reserve their greatest fear and loathing for their great nemesis the
United States. Allied with our own homegrown Elites, they hope to remake America in their own
image, and are engaged in a serious battle to make this happen.

No, but if you could keep your politics on US soil we wouldn't bother. The brutal way of doing foreign policy the current government is doing is a thread to as all, therefor we speak against it. Unfortunately your current government has closed its ears and eyes to warning from friends and allies. We use the spoken word to warn you of your dangerous path, you call us "old europe" to mock us.

The problem stems from a tradition, a culture in Europe, that breeds Elitism and fosters a
general dislike for the qualities that make the United States great. These fundamental
differences between old and new world are emerging at a time when such differences are magnified
by the current international issues. They are worth observing.

What qualities make US great, War mongering? Pollution? neglecting human rights? as a US citizen I'm sure you're happy for you life and that's fine. What you don't seem to understand is that many people suffer from the US foreign policy, I know to you they don't really counts as they aren't US citizen. If you're not willing to listen to how people who are affected by the policy think of it, I don't blame you for your views.

The culture of Europe has been dominated by a long history of serfdom and tribalism. These caste
systems, national and local chauvinism, rule of brute force, control by elites, and endless
bloody wars has resulted in a dominant culture that is essentially neo-fuedalistic. Europeans
are disarmed in the face of authoritarianism... they may hate it, in fundamentally these see
themselves as wrong and state right. An American would rebel from the bottom of his soul...
defiance, not obediance, is the American answer to overbearing authority.

RULE OF BRUTE FORCE?????? you are blaming europeans for this??????? HAHAHAHAHAHA
I wonder why US need so many weapons and military if not for the rule of brute force. I guess you're willing to fight for what you belive in but are you willing to use diplomacy, thought and dialogue? Are you willing to let people live who want to live different than you? I doubt it. That is eliteism at a gun point, live like us or die trying defending you from our way.

The history of the US is not the same as Europe and has bred a much different animal. In America
old ideas of creed, nationality, or class had little bearing. Independence, a pioneer spirit,
self-sufficiency, risk-taking, direct action and innovation were guiding concepts. Americans
loved rough-hewn heroes who stand up for their beliefs and possess a clear vision of what they
want. We love mavericks. We're skeptical of authority, democratic by instinct, and
entrepreneurial by choice. Over there, the 'Ideal Man' was a scholarly, aristocratic gentlemen
of leisure... over here Teddy Roosevely was our hero, over there it was Friedrich Nietszche.

Exactly.....posses a clear vision.....The most dangerous of all. Every dictator in the world have had a clear vision and stood up for it. And you're not skepitcal of authority, you love big business, your president, NRAA, God, your military, your police etc. all some of the strongest authorities, you just don't call it authorities as the are "on your side".

In Europe festered the remanants of an pre-Enlightenment past, living off of faded glories and
newfound envy. Today this clash is pushed to the forefront. With the Elites (the modern day
equivelent of Lords) firmly in power in politics, the media, entertainment, schools, and
business, and the masses (the modern day equivelent of the loyal serf), Europe has made it a
priority to oppose and despise the United States because of who we are: The can-do culture
versus the can't-face-doing crowd. There is no doubt in which society stands to lose.

So the elite doesn't run America....HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Your democracy is an oligarki with few rich families and business men running the whole sherade. Will you ever see a president who isn't backed up with huge amount of money? The rich and powerfull buy their president candidate, the poor will never stand a chance as the have to have two jobs to pay for their living. Will any of these modern slaves ever have time and energy to speak their mind?

They are repulsed by our guns, our religion, and our power. We are bullies and cowboys. We have
the death penalty, limited government, and drive SUVs. There is a desperate desire to force us
to change our ways, because that's what Elite's do... after all, they always know what's best.
They don't understand us, and what they don't understand they treat with contempt. They are
bitter over their decay, low growth rates, unemployment, loss of power and prestige, and it's
the easy way out to point fingers at the dynamic engine of power and progress.

No we don't understand a people with so little compasion and respect for others. We don't understand a people that worship death and destruction and still claims to be Christian. Your largest industry is your military, how the fvck can you admire a people who have war as their primary concern.

The Europeans can't speak softly and carry a big stick, so they scream constantly with a twig in
hand... and I'm supposed to change for them. I'd rather be hated but right.

You claim to be right. I say you're not. How do we solve this?

I guess you would solve this by pulling your gun and force me to belive in this sh!t.

PS. This isn't my view of america and I apologize to those who I have offended, but I just needed to vent over this sterotype rambling. I did the same, it felt good and now I'm ready to move on

 

[walkur]

I was planning to respond and "disarm" some of the stereotypes here, but i'm not going to bother.

I'm just going to say that talking about "europe" is a very dangerous thing.
The cultural differences are just too big.

...

 

[Tommunist]

I think I smell a troll;

makes a rediculous post and then is never heard from again....

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: walkur
I'm just going to say that talking about "europe" is a very dangerous thing.
The cultural differences are just too big.

...

And in that, as in so many other things, the EU and the US are more similar than their respective populations seem to realise.

Really, I 've lived in Europe, and I've lived in the US. I like them both, and I'd be happy to live in either - but its obvious that each suffers from the same faults that they criticise in the other, and each seem to believe that they have a monopoly in virtue;

some Americans say of the French: 'they hate us because of our freedom'
some French say of Americans; ' They hate us because of our intelligence'

They are both as blinkered as each other.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

who sold and built saddams nuclear reactors?

could it be france?

nooo.......

Yeah, and France built Israel's reactor... so now what?

 

[biostud]

Europe has many seats in the UN

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Tommunist
I think I smell a troll;

makes a rediculous post and then is never heard from again....

Indeed, another inane post whether or not there was trollish intent. I could pick apart almost every sentence for flaws but what's the point? Cwjerome has shows that he does not need back up his statements with evidence-- a symptom of a mind totally estranged from reason.

 

[lozina]

The problem with Europe is... it's full of Europeans!

 

[piasabird]

I was born in Africa (Moracco), and lived 3 years in Italy, and a couple years in Asia (Rep. of S. Korea). I have not visited Europe since before the 1980's. What I see is a kind of us vs them mentality. This is what the Air Bus plane is all about it is about combating the capitalistic machine we call the United States of America (USA). The USA had a great advantage after World War II (WWII), because our cities and our towns and our economic system was still intact and we had not been bombed and/or destroyed with the exception of some Island properties like Hawaii. Some of our shipping had been destroyed, but we were mostly intact. We did not suffer a successful invasion and we had not been a conquerred by an invading power. The USA was just lucky.

However, Europe was destroyed from within, and we could have done nothing about Kosavo and it would probably have escalated and caused a third world war. Fortunately, Europe does not have the stomach to start any conflict, so they have been lulled into a state of complacency. Europe is not likely to start an internal conflict, but should an outside power attack it would cause havoc. Europe has never been prepared to fight off an invader since around the time of WWII. Some countries have invested somewhat in their protection, but they do not have a military sufficient to defeat a dedicated enemy.

The biggest threat the world has today is the the Muslim Terrorist Threat. Muslims are not as a whole a bad group of people, but there exists within their ranks groups of people who are militant and violent. They do not attack countries with armies but cause civil unrest from within. Alqeada is hard at work trying to cause civil unrest and is actively engaged trying to take over countries from within. One big problem is Muslims do not stand up and fight against this terrorist threat. They allow it to exist, becuase they do not fight against it or speak out against it. They are their own worst enemy.

The European Union seems to be hell-bent to run everything their way or no way at all. Whatever the US tries to do they decide to do something differently because they resent the US telling them what to do. European countries have a great advantage in that their countries are smaller and easier to manage. Unlike Europe USA is a collection of states in a union. Compared to Europe you can see how hard it is to make any laws that all the states agree upon in the USA. However, a smaller country can have mostly federal laws that apply to everyone.

Imagine changing the United States to one Federal system with no states. All of the midwestern regions would then be stuck being forced to accept the liberal laws that would ensue. With the majority of the people living in Liberal costal states, the majority would be ruled by the liberal elite just like in Europe. Our system stems back the tide of extremism, but it also prohibits faster development. We are caught in a Quandry of our own making.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I was born in Africa (Moracco), and lived 3 years in Italy, and a couple years in Asia (Rep. of S. Korea). I have not visited Europe since before the 1980's. What I see is a kind of us vs them mentality.

I think you're projecting. And how is your korea residence related to being familiar with Europe? Did you live on a base in Italy?

This is what the Air Bus plane is all about it is about combating the capitalistic machine we call the United States of America (USA).

OMG they are trying to compete with the US!!!!

we could have done nothing about Kosavo and it would probably have escalated and caused a third world war.

Highly unlikely.

Fortunately, Europe does not have the stomach to start any conflict, so they have been lulled into a state of complacency.

Evidence for this "state of complacency?"

Europe has never been prepared to fight off an invader since around the time of WWII. Some countries have invested somewhat in their protection, but they do not have a military sufficient to defeat a dedicated enemy.

Who do you think is a threat to Europe right now? Two of its countries have nukes and the rest have modern armies.

The European Union seems to be hell-bent to run everything their way or no way at all. Whatever the US tries to do they decide to do something differently because they resent the US telling them what to do.

You could say the same thing about America and it would be equally useles. Offer some evidence that Europe acts only to contradict America if you want to be taken seriously.

European countries have a great advantage in that their countries are smaller and easier to manage.

Most European states are larger than American states.

[qUnlike Europe USA is a collection of states in a union. [/quote]
There are differences here but you're not explaining them with this sentence.

Imagine changing the United States to one Federal system with no states.

Why would anyone want to imagine that? Nobody is talking about anything like that in either Europe or the US.

Yours is a lame post. You pretty much just barfed out everything you think you know about Europe without actually saying anything useful.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: piasabird
However, Europe was destroyed from within, and we could have done nothing about Kosavo and it would probably have escalated and caused a third world war. Fortunately, Europe does not have the stomach to start any conflict, so they have been lulled into a state of complacency. Europe is not likely to start an internal conflict, but should an outside power attack it would cause havoc. Europe has never been prepared to fight off an invader since around the time of WWII. Some countries have invested somewhat in their protection, but they do not have a military sufficient to defeat a dedicated enemy.

True, after WWII most countries in europe seem to have become tired of wars, so most of them(If not all to some degree) ended up letting their military power decline. Can't say I blame them though.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: piasabird
However, Europe was destroyed from within, and we could have done nothing about Kosavo and it would probably have escalated and caused a third world war.

Uhh, how could Kosovo have caused a third world war when a worse conflict was largely allowed to run it's course in Bosnia and Croatia? You'll really need to explain your thought process on this speculation.

Fortunately, Europe does not have the stomach to start any conflict, so they have been lulled into a state of complacency. Europe is not likely to start an internal conflict, but should an outside power attack it would cause havoc. Europe has never been prepared to fight off an invader since around the time of WWII. Some countries have invested somewhat in their protection, but they do not have a military sufficient to defeat a dedicated enemy.

I don't think they need a large military- it would just be another useless drain on their economy.

The biggest threat the world has today is the the Muslim Terrorist Threat. Muslims are not as a whole a bad group of people, but there exists within their ranks groups of people who are militant and violent. They do not attack countries with armies but cause civil unrest from within.

I disagree with this, because the best example of a terrorist attack- 9/11 did not cause civil unrest but had the opposite effect of Americans overwhlemingly supporting their government.

Alqeada is hard at work trying to cause civil unrest and is actively engaged trying to take over countries from within. One big problem is Muslims do not stand up and fight against this terrorist threat. They allow it to exist, becuase they do not fight against it or speak out against it. They are their own worst enemy.

Wrong, if you think Al Qaeda can "take over countries" with terrorism you are completely fooled by the great fear campaign launched in this country since 9/11. In Egypt and Algeria, Islamic extremists tried to use terrorism to rally the people against the pro-western governments and install Islamic fundamentalist regimes. But the people they were trying to rally were so horrified by the violence used by the terrorists that they rallied with the governments against the terrorists and their plan completely failed. So basically, your idea of Muslims not doing anything to stand up against terrorism is completely flawed.

The European Union seems to be hell-bent to run everything their way or no way at all. Whatever the US tries to do they decide to do something differently because they resent the US telling them what to do.

Huh? So just because they didn't get fooled by our lack of evidence that Iraq was a threat means that they are hell-bent against us? Makes no sense.

Imagine changing the United States to one Federal system with no states. All of the midwestern regions would then be stuck being forced to accept the liberal laws that would ensue. With the majority of the people living in Liberal costal states, the majority would be ruled by the liberal elite just like in Europe. Our system stems back the tide of extremism, but it also prohibits faster development. We are caught in a Quandry of our own making.

Again, huh? First I hear on these forums that liberalism is on it's last legs, now I hear liberalism is dominant. And what the hell does a "Federal system with no states" mean?

fed·er·al Audio pronunciation of "federal" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fdr-l, fdrl)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or being a form of government in which a union of states recognizes the sovereignty of a central authority while retaining certain residual powers of government.

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