The reason Intel is not producing hot chips anymore

[frozentundra123456]

And why would you need a desktop for that first setup? You can just hook a monitor, a keyboard and mouse on your notebook and you are set. Plus you still have mobility.

As I said earlier, a desktop is still cheaper for any given performance level, will run cooler, be upgradable and more repairable. In addition, it will probably last longer due to better cooling.

I am not saying that laptops and tablets don't have a place, of course they do, and they are the growth segment. OTOH, there are many applications that don't require mobility, and in that situation, a desktop is still the most practical alternative. For instance I work in a research lab doing a large clinical study. We have a large data base and a huge amount of experimental results to process. It is all done, however, in the lab or administrative offices, so a desktop is much better solution. Many other labs are in the same situation.

 

[Blandge]

Tablets are great for content consumption. A few seconds and you are already browsing, checking email, watching movies or reading a book. That in a very convenient form factor, anywhere you want.

Notebooks are great for productivity. Get your work wherever/whenever you want, and if you have Haswell + SSD you can get small lead times to start, just like tablets.

But.... What's the desktop killer app? Games? PC gaming isn't mainstream. A keyboard and a monitor? Multi-monitor setup? These goes with the notebook. That's not mainstream too. There is no killer app for the desktop anymore. Only if you game, do a lot of video encoding or download torrents like hell the desktop becomes an interesting alternative.

The PC gaming industry made $20B in 2012 year. To give you a comparison, worldwide music sales (that is THE ENTIRE GLOBAL MUSIC INDUSTRY) made $16.5B. Unless your claim is that music isn't mainstream then I'm not sure you have a case.

The PC gaming industry is also larger than the console gaming industry (in 2012 at least), so unless you think that no gaming is mainstream then PC gaming is mainstream. And if you even mention mobile gaming or angry birds I'll smack you.

Plus you are forgetting the thing that makes PCs great. They don't need a killer app because they are good at everything. That's what makes desktops unique.

Also, just for clarification, desktops and notebooks/ultrabooks all fall under the category of "PC" financially, so when somebody talks about the PC is dying them mean laptops too.


Source: Things I google'd just now. I'd be willing to change my mind if you provide convincing evidence.
http://www.bizjournals.com/losangel...o-game-sales-dropped-22-percent.html?page=all
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngau...-game-industry-will-reach-82-billion-by-2017/
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/26/entertainment/la-et-ms-global-music-sales-increase-20130226

 

[Arkaign]

I've gotten pushback at a couple major clients now that had tried to go exclusively ultrabook. We're now putting the power users back on desktops, and using Surface Pro 2s for their travel systems.

 

[Blandge]

As I said earlier, a desktop is still cheaper for any given performance level, will run cooler, be upgradable and more repairable. In addition, it will probably last longer due to better cooling.

I am not saying that laptops and tablets don't have a place, of course they do, and they are the growth segment. OTOH, there are many applications that don't require mobility, and in that situation, a desktop is still the most practical alternative. For instance I work in a research lab doing a large clinical study. We have a large data base and a huge amount of experimental results to process. It is all done, however, in the lab or administrative offices, so a desktop is much better solution. Many other labs are in the same situation.

As somebody who uses a laptop + docking station at work and a desktop at home, I much prefer the desktop. I'm not saying that I NEED both, but it's definitely nicer to use the desktop.

Laptops are standard issue at most corporations, but almost all still offer PCs upon request. However, these days, if I need to do some heavy lifting I'll just send that workload to the cloud.

PCs are certainly not dying, but they are becoming increasingly easy to replace.

 

[Arkaign]

Another thing which bugged them was the fact that real snap-in docks went away in 99% of the PC world. The convenience was awesome. Get a reasonable laptop (not ultrabook small, but compact enough at 4 or 5 lbs with good specs, and have a legit docking station with power, dual display, gigabit ethernet, plenty of USB, and you just snap it in.

Now with the prevalence of USB "docking" stations, they just suck. You still have to have a second power supply, the video performance is utter and complete garbage from the USB video on them, and it's just a hassle. At minimum you connect two cables, have to either unbundle your laptop power supply from your carrying case and plug that in behind your desk, or buy a second power supply for the office that you leave there.

I know Apple tried with Thunderbolt, which addresses all of that, but a legit Thunderbolt setup using a Macbook Pro is REALLY REALLY expensive considering the specs you're dealing with.

Just having a desktop for those users is a godsend. No docking at all, just wake the PC, and have the data synced with cloud services so when they're on the road they can access it all in a usable fashion from their travel unit.

 

[Blandge]

Another thing which bugged them was the fact that real snap-in docks went away in 99% of the PC world. The convenience was awesome. Get a reasonable laptop (not ultrabook small, but compact enough at 4 or 5 lbs with good specs, and have a legit docking station with power, dual display, gigabit ethernet, plenty of USB, and you just snap it in.

Now with the prevalence of USB "docking" stations, they just suck. You still have to have a second power supply, the video performance is utter and complete garbage from the USB video on them, and it's just a hassle. At minimum you connect two cables, have to either unbundle your laptop power supply from your carrying case and plug that in behind your desk, or buy a second power supply for the office that you leave there.

I have experienced this and a docking station is very convenient.

I know Apple tried with Thunderbolt, which addresses all of that, but a legit Thunderbolt setup using a Macbook Pro is REALLY REALLY expensive considering the specs you're dealing with.

Just having a desktop for those users is a godsend. No docking at all, just wake the PC, and have the data synced with cloud services so when they're on the road they can access it all in a usable fashion from their travel unit.

More expensive than buying a full desktop to keep at your desk? A Thunderbolt setup is maybe a couple hundred dollars? I see the dilemma here, but I'm not fully convinced that Thunderbolt is dead in the water yet.

 

[Cerb]

Why? I have a computer at work, and a computer at home, why would you assume the need for a portable device?

Because otherwise you wouldn't buy one. The docking station is the solution to constantly cycling peripheral connections on a portable computer. If you've no use for a computer you can take with you, then inserting and removing peripheral connections should not be an issue, regardless of form factor.

 

[mrmt]

As I said earlier, a desktop is still cheaper for any given performance level, will run cooler, be upgradable and more repairable. In addition, it will probably last longer due to better cooling.

You are trading mobility for a cheaper price, which is a valid trade off. But if you need mobility, or at least think you need mobility, why not go laptop? And cheaper price isn't enough to sway buyers most of the time.

What I'm trying to show here is that the desktop isn't necessary most of the time. Your notebook can do most of the things your desktop does + mobility. Unless you are in a workstation or gaming, why bother with desktop?

You work in a lab. I doubt you never had to go to a meeting and wished for a notebook to take notes or make small adjustments in models or documents.

 

[NTMBK]

I've never ever seen anyone using a Thunderbolt setup, and I work at a company of tech nerds.

 

[mrmt]

The PC gaming industry made $20B in 2012 year. To give you a comparison, worldwide music sales (that is THE ENTIRE GLOBAL MUSIC INDUSTRY) made $16.5B. Unless your claim is that music isn't mainstream then I'm not sure you have a case.

Intel + Microsoft makes over 120 billion per year, add revenues from HP, Lenovo, Dell, Acer, Asus and others... and yes, gaming isn't mainstream, but a small niche in the PC ecosystem.

And nobody builds a computer to listen to music, you have your iPod for that.

Plus you are forgetting the thing that makes PCs great. They don't need a killer app because they are good at everything. That's what makes desktops unique.

Yes, they are good at everything, when you are by your desk. Go to a meeting room, a train, airplane, a hotel room or even your bed and your desktop is as good as dead.

With laptops running almost everything at acceptable levels of performance and the excellent battery life of nowadays, why bother with desktops?

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

You are trading mobility for a cheaper price, which is a valid trade off. But if you need mobility, or at least think you need mobility, why not go laptop? And cheaper price isn't enough to sway buyers most of the time.

What I'm trying to show here is that the desktop isn't necessary most of the time. Your notebook can do most of the things your desktop does + mobility. Unless you are in a workstation or gaming, why bother with desktop?

You work in a lab. I doubt you never had to go to a meeting and wished for a notebook to take notes or make small adjustments in models or documents.

Any laptop that could replace my desktop would be very heavy which would defeat the whole purpose of having a laptop. Not to mention it would contain all the heat within a tiny chassis. Good luck upgrading it too.

Right now I'm doing IC design on a FPGA. The synthesis will take hours and hours on a fast CPU. I do realize most people do not do that kind of stuff. Anyways, for meetings I bought a cheap ultrabook on Black Friday while for everything else I use my desktop. To me that is the ideal setup. Small and light portable with a high-end desktop. I also have a Nexus 5.

 

[mrmt]

Right now I'm doing IC design on a FPGA. The synthesis will take hours and hours on a fast CPU. I do realize not most people do that kind of stuff. Anyways, for meetings I bought a cheap ultrabook on Black Friday while for everything else I use my desktop. To me that is the ideal setup. Small and light portable with a high-end desktop. I also have a Nexus 5.

See? You are niche. You should be better served by Xeon workstations than by a pedestrian desktop.

 

[Blue_Max]

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

That was just one example but yes, we'll be synthesizing on a Xeon workstation. I just practice/learn on my desktop. It doesn't really make a difference whether I synthesize on a Core i7 or Xeon other than the amount of time it takes. It doesn't need ECC ram.

I also code, transcode, and of course game on my desktop. Being able to do all of that on dual monitors and multitask is just awesome. Need more RAM, no problem I can put another 12GB. CPU is slow, go look for a 990X. Want to use CUDA on a GPU with good double precision, buy a Titan.

On the other hand, my brother-in-law doesn't do any of that stuff. But he sure does love his new desktop. He also has a rMBP that gets no use anymore.

 

[Zodiark1593]

See? You are niche. You should be better served by Xeon workstations than by a pedestrian desktop.

Problem there is the expense compared to a high performance desktop. Sure buisnesses have no issue buying them, but how bout the hobbyist or gamer? A for that niche arguement, there seem to be enough productivity users around to argue.

 

[tolis626]

Any laptop that could replace my desktop would be very heavy which would defeat the whole purpose of having a laptop. Not to mention it would contain all the heat within a tiny chassis. Good luck upgrading it too.

Right now I'm doing IC design on a FPGA. The synthesis will take hours and hours on a fast CPU. I do realize most people do not do that kind of stuff. Anyways, for meetings I bought a cheap ultrabook on Black Friday while for everything else I use my desktop. To me that is the ideal setup. Small and light portable with a high-end desktop. I also have a Nexus 5.

This.My laptop weighs in at about 3kg (6lbs?) if my memory serves me well.It's not exactly portable.I agree that the only laptops that do make sense are ultrabooks.Really portable,not almost portable,and with excellent battery life.You have a proper desktop at home and voila!All is well.You have mobility and don't sacrifice performance or anything when you need it.
To me,the only dying segment are the ultra high end laptops.The ones with the big GPUs and CPUs and screens that weigh as much as a desktop and approach it in size,all just to have proper computing power portable.These,I think,are on their way out.Everything else stays,desktop or mobile.

See? You are niche. You should be better served by Xeon workstations than by a pedestrian desktop.

I do want to point out that the laptops of most of these people who are in such desperate need of mobility end up being used like desktops,being hooked to a power supply and being used around the house,usually in few places.The people who have a laptop and are actually mobile are fewer than you think.

 

[CHADBOGA]

I've gotten pushback at a couple major clients now that had tried to go exclusively ultrabook. We're now putting the power users back on desktops, and using Surface Pro 2s for their travel systems.

What didn't they like about the Ultrabooks?

 

[frozentundra123456]

You are trading mobility for a cheaper price, which is a valid trade off. But if you need mobility, or at least think you need mobility, why not go laptop? And cheaper price isn't enough to sway buyers most of the time.

What I'm trying to show here is that the desktop isn't necessary most of the time. Your notebook can do most of the things your desktop does + mobility. Unless you are in a workstation or gaming, why bother with desktop?

You work in a lab. I doubt you never had to go to a meeting and wished for a notebook to take notes or make small adjustments in models or documents.

Seems like you missed the entire point of the post I made, or are ignoring it.

In any case, the PI from our lab, PhDs and various grad students do go to meetings and make numerous presentations. We have one shared laptop for that, but we have about 10 desktops for the day to day data handling. We save money, have an easier to use system, and dont have to bother with docks, external keyboards, whatever. That is the point I am trying to make. The "desktop is dead, mobility is everything" argument does not apply to everyone.

 

[mrmt]

I do want to point out that the laptops of most of these people who are in such desperate need of mobility end up being used like desktops,being hooked to a power supply and being used around the house,usually in few places.The people who have a laptop and are actually mobile are fewer than you think.

I should be biased because mobility is #1 for me, but I think there is an important distinction here. Most people don't actually need much mobility, but they like to have some of it, and here is the desktop problem. With the desktop problem you have 0 mobility.

For most people the notebook is simply more convenient than a desktop. It saves space on the house, it is mobile, it's easier to setup than a desktop.

 

[mrmt]

In any case, the PI from our lab, PhDs and various grad students do go to meetings and make numerous presentations. We have one shared laptop for that, but we have about 10 desktops for the day to day data handling. We save money, have an easier to use system, and dont have to bother with docks, external keyboards, whatever. That is the point I am trying to make. The "desktop is dead, mobility is everything" argument does not apply to everyone.

See? There is no killer app for the desktop, and except for plugging and unplugging cables, you would have the same capabilities of a desktop with a notebook, the only thing worth pondering is whether you want to afford mobility or not.

Btw, how's a desktop easier to use? Plug an external keyboard/monitor is no hassle at all. And it seems that you could work on a notebook if you want. It's just a question to probe whether this trade off is worth the money for your team.

 

[mikeymikec]

More expensive than buying a full desktop to keep at your desk? A Thunderbolt setup is maybe a couple hundred dollars? I see the dilemma here, but I'm not fully convinced that Thunderbolt is dead in the water yet.

Well, in the ten years I've been in business, I've encountered two customers using Firewire. Maybe Thunderbolt will surpass that? One difference between the two is that Firewire has (had?) a niche.

 

[frozentundra123456]

See? There is no killer app for the desktop, and except for plugging and unplugging cables, you would have the same capabilities of a desktop with a notebook, the only thing worth pondering is whether you want to afford mobility or not.

Btw, how's a desktop easier to use? Plug an external keyboard/monitor is no hassle at all. And it seems that you could work on a notebook if you want. It's just a question to probe whether this trade off is worth the money for your team.

There is no point in continuing this discussion. I have stated my feeling as to why a desktop has advantages in some situations. You dont acknowledge anything I say, but just keep repeating the same statement about how easy it is to dock a laptop. We are just talking past each other.

You do admit that mobility has a price. I guess where we disagree is that I feel mobility is not always a need, and I gave an example of that.

 

[Morbus]

PC gaming isn't mainstream.

Lol... Another myth.

Seriously, have you any data to back that up? Because last time I checked, the biggest selling games are all PC. Diablo, World of Warcraft, The Sims... And then Steam. And then all the rest. PC gaming is king dude. Just king. And it drives everything.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Lol... Another myth.

Seriously, have you any data to back that up? Because last time I checked, the biggest selling games are all PC. Diablo, World of Warcraft, The Sims... And then Steam. And then all the rest. PC gaming is king dude. Just king. And it drives everything.

I noticed that BestBuy has a dedicated PC gaming endcap / aisle now. If that isn't mainstream...

 

[mrmt]

Seriously, have you any data to back that up? Because last time I checked, the biggest selling games are all PC. Diablo, World of Warcraft, The Sims... And then Steam. And then all the rest. PC gaming is king dude. Just king. And it drives everything.

PC gaming is a 20 billion/year industry, that's less than half of what Intel alone earns per year. Add Microsoft, Adobe, Dell, Acer, IBM, Lenovo, Asus, Nvidia, and all other companies of the PC ecosystem, and yes, gaming becomes a niche.