The "regular" MacBook makes the MacBook Air look like Fred Flinstone's abacus.

[slugg]

I went to the Apple Store for the first time in forever. I'm contemplating a new Mac laptop of sorts.

The important part is that the non-pro, non-air MacBook looks and feels modern and amazing, and now the MacBook Air seems like a dated device. The screen and form-factor on the Vanilla MacBook is phenomenal, while the screen and form-factor on the Airs are about 6 years old, and it shows.

The bad part about the Vanilla MacBook is that, despite its $1300 price tag, it's just barely faster than a $300 ChromeBook. If I could get MacBook Air performance in the Vanilla MacBook form factor, I'd be sold in a heartbeat.

What say you?

 

[Ice_Dragon]

I'm not a fan of the "MacBook" or the Core M processor. I think they're both terrible.

I actually liked back in 2008 when the 13" MacBook Pro was simply the MacBook.

The Air I think can go now.

Of course you're looking still looking at someone who wants desperately to hold onto the Mac mini so what do I know?

 

[Zodiark1593]

It's a shame the "regular" Macbook is as fast as an abacus.

 

[Eug]

I went to the Apple Store for the first time in forever. I'm contemplating a new Mac laptop of sorts.

The important part is that the non-pro, non-air MacBook looks and feels modern and amazing, and now the MacBook Air seems like a dated device. The screen and form-factor on the Vanilla MacBook is phenomenal, while the screen and form-factor on the Airs are about 6 years old, and it shows.

The bad part about the Vanilla MacBook is that, despite its $1300 price tag, it's just barely faster than a $300 ChromeBook. If I could get MacBook Air performance in the Vanilla MacBook form factor, I'd be sold in a heartbeat.

What say you?

I agree. Ever since the Air came out, I've been saying they should release a 12" model with better resolution ergonomics, and ever since the Retina came out, I've been saying they should release a 12" model with Retina.

The 12" Retina is just soooooooooo much nicer in terms of screen and form factor. However, the problem is that the keyboard on the 12" Retina is worse than the Air's, and the trackpad is worse than the Pro's. (I don't remember the trackpad on the latest Air, but it's like the older Airs, it's also superior to the 12" MacBook's trackpad.)

I'm hopeful they'll scrap the Airs this month, and introduce new Pros with a slimmer form factor than their current form factor.

 

[Tsavo]

I'm hopeful they'll scrap the Airs this month, and introduce new Pros with a slimmer form factor than their current form factor.

They are going to be called Macbook Air Pro, and Macbook Pro Air.

They are also going to release an iPad Air Pro, an iPhone 7, an iPhone 7 Air, an iPhone 7 Air Pro, and an iPhone 7 Pro Air.

I'm looking forward to the Apple Pen Pro Air, too.

 

[Essence_of_War]

I agree. Ever since the Air came out, I've been saying they should release a 12" model with better resolution ergonomics, and ever since the Retina came out, I've been saying they should release a 12" model with Retina.

I agree with this, it is embarrassing that the 11'' air comes with a 1366x768 TN panel. The 1440x900 TN panel on the 13'' air is only slightly better. At least it's 16:10...

However, the problem is that the keyboard on the 12" Retina is worse than the Air's, and the trackpad is worse than the Pro's. (I don't remember the trackpad on the latest Air, but it's like the older Airs, it's also superior to the 12" MacBook's trackpad.)

I'm mixed on this. I very much like the new key switches on the 12'' macbook, but I slightly prefer the trackpad that actually physically clicks. bit better.

 

[Eug]

If I had to choose today though, I'd probably get a 12" MacBook. Overall I like them better than the Airs, and I can deal with the relatively slow CPU, since it's still faster than my current Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro.

That said, the current Pros are noticeably faster even just for OS navigation.

However, since I plan on waiting anyway, that's OK. Usually Apple's first iteration of anything is deficient somehow, and in the case of the 12" MacBook some of those deficiencies include the number of ports and the speed. This should improve with time at least for the speed. And in terms of the "feel" for the speed, there are diminishing returns as you get faster. 2.26 GHz Core 2 Duo feels OK, but not fast. MacBook 12" feels better than OK, but not as good as the screaming fast Core i7.

Even if they do release a Skylake 12" MacBook this month though, I will likely continue to wait, since Kaby Lake will likely introduce other benefits such as 4K output support (for such TVs and monitors) and full hardware 10-bit HEVC decode support without stressing the CPU at all. Considering I've made it this far with a Core 2 Duo, a Kaby Lake (or Cannonlake?) 12" MacBook should last me a very long time too. OTOH, if the Pros get a new form factor, maybe I'll get a 13" Pro instead. Either way, the wait continues.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Eug,

Is your dislike of the new trackpad because it doesn't physically click? If so, are you worried that if they make the slimmer pro form factor that you're asking for that they will drop a physically moving trackpad in those also? It also seems like they'd want to swap to the new butterfly keyboard switches too to save space...

 

[rugby]

It's a shame the "regular" Macbook is as fast as an abacus.

I use one on a daily basis. It's fine for regular operations. Will I create deployment images on it? No. Will I live in Microsoft office and Safari? Yes. Will I put it in my coat pocket vs. a laptop bag? Yes.

 

[Eug]

Eug,

Is your dislike of the new trackpad because it doesn't physically click? If so, are you worried that if they make the slimmer pro form factor that you're asking for that they will drop a physically moving trackpad in those also? It also seems like they'd want to swap to the new butterfly keyboard switches too to save space...

The newer Pros also don't physically click, as they are also ForceTouch trackpads. However, they do move every so slightly and have a better feel IMO compared to the 12" Retina MacBook.

I suspect if they went for a slimmer form factor, they'd maintain the feel of the Pro TrackPad as a differentiator. If they didn't, I'd just spend less money to get the 12" MacBook.

I don't need uber fast speed in my laptops since I run desktops at home for the heavy lifting. But I like nice keyboards and trackpads, which are two of the main advantages of laptops over tablets.

 

[Printer Bandit]

all these Air and Pro names are confusing.

SJ wouldn't approve.

 

[phexac]

While I do like the display and the form factor on the new MacBook, there are a few issues that make it a no go for me:

1. The processor is way too weak.
2. The keyboard is very uncomfortable.
3. Complete lack of ports. In particular, I don't like the lack of a Thunderbolt port since I really like the ability to hook up my laptops to the 27" Thunderbolt display when working with them at home.

Hopefully future generations either address these issues or offer more value in other areas to compensate.

The keyboard really needs work, regardless of anything else given that it's the part of the computer with which the user interacts the most.

 

[rugby]

While I do like the display and the form factor on the new MacBook, there are a few issues that make it a no go for me:

1. The processor is way too weak.
2. The keyboard is very uncomfortable.
3. Complete lack of ports. In particular, I don't like the lack of a Thunderbolt port since I really like the ability to hook up my laptops to the 27" Thunderbolt display when working with them at home.

Hopefully future generations either address these issues or offer more value in other areas to compensate.

The keyboard really needs work, regardless of anything else given that it's the part of the computer with which the user interacts the most.

The keyboard is the future and once you get used to it you think the older style is antiquated. The lack of ports is the wave of the future. Thunderbolt 3 will use the USB-C connector and push 40Gbps. But yes the processor is slow as is the SSD drive in it. But for regular stuff it's fine.

 

[TheStu]

The keyboard is the future and once you get used to it you think the older style is antiquated. The lack of ports is the wave of the future. Thunderbolt 3 will use the USB-C connector and push 40Gbps. But yes the processor is slow as is the SSD drive in it. But for regular stuff it's fine.

The SSD is slow? It's a PCIe SSD, with respectable speeds across the board. Or is it 'slow' in comparison to the absolute FASTEST SSDs in the world?

Anyway, I like mine, but I was coming from a 2010 MBA, so everything about it is superior (other than the arrow keys, they throw me off too much).

 

[phexac]

The keyboard is the future and once you get used to it you think the older style is antiquated. The lack of ports is the wave of the future. Thunderbolt 3 will use the USB-C connector and push 40Gbps. But yes the processor is slow as is the SSD drive in it. But for regular stuff it's fine.

That keyboard is definitely not the future. It's a compromise forced by the small form factor.

Just because the low profile, low travel keys from the other MacBooks are common on laptops these days and people are used to them, does not mean that I find my desktop mechanical full keyboard "antiquated." If anything, it emphasizes the compromises we have to make for the sake of the thin form factor.

 

[rugby]

The SSD is slow? It's a PCIe SSD, with respectable speeds across the board. Or is it 'slow' in comparison to the absolute FASTEST SSDs in the world?

Anyway, I like mine, but I was coming from a 2010 MBA, so everything about it is superior (other than the arrow keys, they throw me off too much).

Ok, it's slower than other SSD drives I've used. I've got a 2012 Mac Mini with an SSD drive in it and that is significantly faster than the Macbook's SSD drive. It's still fast, just not as fast as other drives.

 

[rugby]

That keyboard is definitely not the future. It's a compromise forced by the small form factor.

Just because the low profile, low travel keys from the other MacBooks are common on laptops these days and people are used to them, does not mean that I find my desktop mechanical full keyboard "antiquated." If anything, it emphasizes the compromises we have to make for the sake of the thin form factor.

You do know that Apple made their standalone keyboard exactly like this, right? It's the future.

 

[nerp]

That keyboard is definitely not the future. It's a compromise forced by the small form factor.

Just because the low profile, low travel keys from the other MacBooks are common on laptops these days and people are used to them, does not mean that I find my desktop mechanical full keyboard "antiquated." If anything, it emphasizes the compromises we have to make for the sake of the thin form factor.

Agree. Some of these people who think these keyboards are great clearly have never sat down and cranked out 10,000 words on my Topre.

The latest iteration of MacBook keyboards take a fairly poor keyboard and make it worse. There is nothing redeemable about them. They're OK for tapping a few FB posts but serious writing requires something better. If you don't agree with this, you either don't write much or forgot what a good quality mechanical keyboard feels like.

 

[Tegeril]

Agree. Some of these people who think these keyboards are great clearly have never sat down and cranked out 10,000 words on my Topre.

The latest iteration of MacBook keyboards take a fairly poor keyboard and make it worse. There is nothing redeemable about them. They're OK for tapping a few FB posts but serious writing requires something better. If you don't agree with this, you either don't write much or forgot what a good quality mechanical keyboard feels like.

Or you don't like super long throw distance, loud keyboards.

 

[Rakehellion]

Pro Air

Sounds like a pair of basketball shoes.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Once Apple gets Skylake into the MacBook, I'm sold. Don't want no ancient Broadwell chip in such an expensive system.

 

[nerp]

Or you don't like super long throw distance, loud keyboards.

My Topre is very quiet. Not all mechanical keyboards are clicky or loud. And "super long throw distance" c'mon. Don't make excuses for typing on al dente noodles. They key travel on the newer apple keyboards is too short, plain and simple. You bottom out instantly, it's bad for your fingers, touch typists are forced to type more slowly. To say that standard key travel is now suddenly "super long throw distance" because apple has decided excessively short distance is the new normal is apologizing at its worst. The keyboards suck and everyone knows it. It's OK to admit Apple doesn't do everything perfectly.

 

[Artdeco]

I have a rMB, love it. If I was editing videos all day, I don't think it'd be my laptop of choice, but it's fine for my needs, and I love the keyboard and trackpad.

 

[Eug]

Flintstone

 

[vbuggy]

Eug,

Is your dislike of the new trackpad because it doesn't physically click? If so, are you worried that if they make the slimmer pro form factor that you're asking for that they will drop a physically moving trackpad in those also? It also seems like they'd want to swap to the new butterfly keyboard switches too to save space...

I updated all my Macbooks to '15s last year, and as someone who's never bought into the massively-overhyped-by-fanbois trackpad since many of my Windows laptops are perfectly fine as well, and those of which aren't have redeeming features (like... ohh... a screen that's a trackpad for example) - but at the same time having never felt that the Macbook trackpad experience has been anything less than very decent overall, I have a real problem with the '15 models.

The lack of a physical click isn't a problem. You really don't notice the difference in terms of the actual haptic feedback. The problem is that it's actually now noticeably inferior to the majority of Windows laptops I use for detection of even one-finger clicks at times. Two finger clicks especially are egregiously often misinterpreted as one. According to Apple when I sent one 13" away repeatedly this is working normally.

Which is why I often carry a 1st-gen Magic trackpad or a mouse now with the MBPs, something that I'd never even contemplate with even e.g. the Surface Pros.

I'm pretty sure Apple is aware of the problem, and they'll stealth fix it eventually as usual, covered by a tech press that doesn't jump on every single problem a company's hardware has, when it's Apple.