The Retirement Gamble

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0

- People need to learn more about saving for retirement
- Most investment houses are trying to sell you something, not look out for your best interest
- Pay attention to fees because they are a killer
- It's hard to beat an index fund
- Jack Bogle is the man
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,479
3,597
126
- People need to learn more about saving for retirement
- Most investment houses are trying to sell you something, not look out for your best interest
- Pay attention to fees because they are a killer
- It's hard to beat an index fund
- Jack Bogle is the man

None of this is really new but many people aren't willing to spend a little bit of time and effort to understand how they should be\are preparing for retirement. It boggles my mind how so many people pay so little attention to something that will make a massive impact on your own life. Look at all the people who have just recently or are just now getting back into the market!

There are all kinds of tools out there if they bothered to spend a tiny bit of time on the issue:

One of my favorites for investigating fees and what performance would need to justify the fee:
http://apps.finra.org/fundanalyzer/1/fa.aspx
 
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Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
I like frontline, great program.

Watching it now...

PS. I don't EVER plan on retiring....neither do I want to. I have to keep busy. Either way, we still have a 401k plan....but I treat it more as "emergency fund" vs retirement plan.......until I have an emergency fund (which is no where near)
 
Last edited:
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
None of this is really new but many people aren't willing to spend a little bit of time and effort to understand how they should be\are preparing for retirement. It boggles my mind how so many people pay so little attention to something that will make a massive impact on your own life. Look at all the people who have just recently or are just now getting back into the market!

There are all kinds of tools out there if they bothered to spend a tiny bit of time on the issue:

One of my favorites for investigating fees and what performance would need to justify the fee:
http://apps.finra.org/fundanalyzer/1/fa.aspx
thanks for link
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
A 'Cliff's' should include that:

- The US system used to be a LOT better for workers, with guaanteed pensions for many.

- The replacement of pensions by 401(k)'s was not so much an intentional policy decision as something we stumbled into accidentally, that was a tax dodge for high earners.

- But the massive potential for Wall Street to profit by getting average workers to put their retirement funds in these devices led them to campaign for their widespread use.

- That a not uncommon 2% per year fee for the accounts (the average is 1.3%) can lead to over half the money being given to Wall Street over decades.

- That while managed investment products demand higher fees that are highly profitable over time for Wall Street, they do not provide returns that justify the fees. That studies show over time index funds with low fees outperform the large majority of managed funds after fees every year, and outperform pretty much all of them over time.

I think a major point of the show was the reminder that we have shifted to a much worse policy for workers on retirement.

The show didn't get into the wider issues, but policies from globalization to all increases in productivity not going to workers (even as the economy doubled) to destroying pensions are massive wealth transfers to 'the 1%' and to corporations (who globally are sitting on something like $32 trillion in cash).

These are all setting records - concentration in wealth, corporae profits, idle cash at the top, at the same time workers are doing worse and worse.

For the first time in American history, the next generation not doing as well as the previous.

The show was about the retirement savings - and how people are not well informed about ther 401(k)'s.

One comment: 'you put up 100% of the capital, take 100% of the risk, and get 30% of the return').

It's no wonder that Wall Street wants control of Social Security as well - so they get a cut out of people's retirement, so much that giving Wall Street privatization was Bush's #1 domestic priority his second term - it's trillions in new profits for them over time, while estimated to cost several times as much for workers in overhead expenses (despite some potential benefits as well on average, and losses in other cases).

It also makes the case that 401(k)'s were greatly helped by being started during a stock boom; it doesn't mention privatization was hurt further by the economic crash.

To the person who said they 'can't sympathize' with the people, you have a problem.

Bottom line: the political system that's supposed to serve the people, instead is serving the wealthy a lot of the time, and that often means less for the people.

Like the economic crash and a number of these things, this wasn't so much some evil plan as just 'things happening this way' for reasons of various interests.

But there isn't the political will to say 'let's protect the people's interests'.

One more point the documentary makes: the fact that the large majority of 'financial planners' workers interact with in this have no real standards for that role, and are primarily salespeople serving the profits of the firms over the interests of the people; that there is a standard they could meet for having a 'fiduciary duty' to the client, which would obligate them to put the client's needs first, but they don't want to do that.

Instead, they only have to meet a "suitability" standard, meaning to not put the client in an investment wildly inappropriate.

The government agency involved proposed requiring the fiduciary standard for these financial planners; Wall Street lobbied against it with Congress, and it was withdrawn.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
"This message is hidden because xBiffx is on your ignore list."

I'm sure I missed a very valuable contribution.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Retirement is something that really has me uneasy. I'm in my early thirties and feel that I'm doing better saving than the majority of my peers, yet it still seems like I'll be working until my death bed.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
Retirement is something that really has me uneasy. I'm in my early thirties and feel that I'm doing better saving than the majority of my peers, yet it still seems like I'll be working until my death bed.
Really? Seems to me that if you educate yourself and start strong from the beginning (mid-20s), it's relatively simple.

I've seen some stat about some percentage of people that have less than $50k in retirement savings. I think it was over half. Pathetic. If you don't have that by the time you're 30-35ish, you've failed.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,402
386
126
I love the Frontline series, but they are complicating an issue thats not that complicated. Many 401ks default you to a target year retirement fund. These funds typically have fees between .65% - 1.5%. This is suitable for most people. So all they have to do is to elect to be apart of the 401K and forget about it. You need to do a little bit of due-diligence in everything you do, retirement included.

I personally am in the Spartan S&P 500 fidelity index fund with 0.05% fee and the Spartan International fund with .17% fee.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/315911701
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Really? Seems to me that if you educate yourself and start strong from the beginning (mid-20s), it's relatively simple.

I've seen some stat about some percentage of people that have less than $50k in retirement savings. I think it was over half. Pathetic. If you don't have that by the time you're 30-35ish, you've failed.

I think you might be out of touch with wages and expenses for a typical person in their 20's/30's. I'm quite educated in financial matters, but just don't make a salary that permits me to sock away huge sums of money every month.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,402
386
126
Retirement is something that really has me uneasy. I'm in my early thirties and feel that I'm doing better saving than the majority of my peers, yet it still seems like I'll be working until my death bed.

Retirement doesn't worry me that much with the exception of rising health costs. S&P 500 companies are paying out the highest dividends they have ever paid. They have record high balance sheets and as long as you are buying more shares over time you get to share in that success. Strangely I am a bit more worried about all the people with minimal 401ks realizing that Social Security isn't going to be enough. I think they will vote to raid (tax) Roth IRAS and 401ks to bolster their lax retirement savings. Every few years a senator tries to pass a bill that converts 401ks into government bond plans. Could be tin foil hat stuff though. Hard to tell.

http://www.humanevents.com/2010/05/04/republicans-sound-alarm-on-administration-plan-to-seize-401ks/
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
"This message is hidden because xBiffx is on your ignore list."

I'm sure I missed a very valuable contribution.

So what would you invest in / how would you manage your money? Just curious.

And yeah his post was worthless.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
I think you might be out of touch with wages and expenses for a typical person in their 20's/30's. I'm quite educated in financial matters, but just don't make a salary that permits me to sock away huge sums of money every month.
Wasn't directly entirely at you, just in general. I think people in general are more likely out of touch with how much they can afford to spend and how much they need to save.
 

AustinInDallas

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2012
1,127
0
76
www.amitelerad.com
sounds basically like a summary of "A Random Walk Down Wallstreet"

-over time, randomly selection stocks and buy and holding(or an index fund) will out preform almost any managed fund
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
sounds basically like a summary of "A Random Walk Down Wallstreet"

-over time, randomly selection stocks and buy and holding(or an index fund) will out preform almost any managed fund

We have a winner!

Thank you for posting this within the first page.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
No, I didn't. I simply asked what he would do. No wonder he blocked you.

Meaning, you asked for retirement advice (i.e. what retirement management choices would he make). No wonder you think he should have.
 
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