The Rockettes Have a Choice—Perform for Trump or Lose Their Jobs

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momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
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It wasn't uncoroborated, it came from the letter from the union, which is hardly a bad source. Whether or not that ended up being the case it's a perfectly reasonable thing to report and is in no way 'fake'.

It seems that people are really threatened by admitting they were taken in by all the right wing fake news and are trying to find ways to apply it to all news so it loses its meaning. It's a weird and sad act of willful self delusion.

Article Headline -

The uncorroborated portion of the article is a Perez Hilton "source" - this by definition is "hearsay".

Perez Hilton also claims to have a source who told him “the union who represents the Rockettes told the group of girls who contracted to do ALL promo events, that if they don’t perform in the Trump inauguration, they will be sued/and or fired,” a threat not found in the letter obtained by Broadwayworld.com.[/QUOTE]

edit: as I said before. I didn't call it fake news. It was semi-news, that was taken somewhat out of context to appear scandalous. There is very little impact to this sort of news anyways. Anybody who would find outrage in it already had plenty of other reasons to dislike Trump. Anybody sympathetic to Trump has a lot more shit to deal with than Rockette union performance coercion.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
It wasn't uncoroborated, it came from the letter from the union, which is hardly a bad source. Whether or not that ended up being the case it's a perfectly reasonable thing to report and is in no way 'fake'.

It seems that people are really threatened by admitting they were taken in by all the right wing fake news and are trying to find ways to apply it to all news so it loses its meaning. It's a weird and sad act of willful self delusion.
lol So a left wing organization can write up some false propaganda and another left wing organization can publish it as news, but it's not "fake news" like "all the right wing fake news". Gotcha.

As always, your spin to the left is as reliable as a neutrino's.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
Article Headline -

The uncorroborated portion of the article is a Perez Hilton "source" - this by definition is "hearsay".

Uhmm, it comes from the text of the email from the union rep? This is by definition not hearsay.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
lol So a left wing organization can write up some false propaganda and another left wing organization can publish it as news, but it's not "fake news" like "all the right wing fake news". Gotcha.

As always, your spin to the left is as reliable as a neutrino's.

Wait, you are alleging a conspiracy between Jezebel and the rockettes union?? I love it. Fake news is news created with the intent to deceive. There is zero evidence that was the case here. This is so simple anyone can grasp it, no matter how brainless.

I have genuinely lost track of all the conspiracies you believe in at this point. Absolutely hilarious.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
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READ even what the ARTICLE ITSELF SAYS!

a threat not found in the letter

Please READ THE ACTUAL ARTICLE. FROM THE QUOTED LETTER:

If you are not full time, you do not have to sign up to do this work. If you are full time, you are obligated. Doing the best performance to reflect an American Institution which has been here for over 90 years is your job. I hope this pulls into focus the bottom line on this work.


The threat of firing was in the letter, but there was an additional stipulation that covered more people that was not.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Please READ THE ACTUAL ARTICLE. FROM THE QUOTED LETTER:



The threat of firing was in the letter, but there was an additional stipulation that covered more people that was not.

No. Possibly an implication, but no direct threat. Hence why they used that specific language. And in order to use the term "fired" they resorted to Perez Hilton hearsay.

Are you saying you know more about journalism than Jezebel? Why haven't they issued a correction on that statement?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
There will be bad apples on both sides, but you also lie and exaggerate. Ivanka may be Donald's child, but she isn't a child, she is a grown woman. It's one thing to confront a child as an adult and another to confront another actual adult. And no grandchildren were attacked. That's just your right wing bullshit. Another witness said the perp didn't yell, he spoke, while agitated. While I wish he kept his mouth shut, I ain't gonna keep quite while Trumpist dbags like yourself make mountains out of molehills.

Both sides have bad apples anyway, the left and the right. That's inevitable.

But while not all Trump supporters are racists, all racists support Trump.

There have been hundreds and hundreds of hate related crimes since the election, and while some small percent are hoaxes, far too many are not.


There are a lot of lily white self proclaimed liberal racists out there, don't let them fool you because they don't wear it openly on their sleeves while waving the confederate flag around like conservatives.

https://www.encounterbooks.com/book...foKPQbIVxILuMnXWRFSoiekHh9xWVEXqCRxoCnOLw_wcB

Progressive Racism

America’s political culture has been tragically warped by progressives through their rejection of the color blind standard established by the Constitution and once championed by the civil rights movement and its leader Martin Luther King.
Progressives have been able to persuade an influential section of the country to believe that whites are guilty before the fact and blacks are innocent even when the facts show they are guilty. The racial morality play of “white supremacy” and black “oppression” provides an indispensable myth for advancing their political agendas, which is why it has proved so durable.

The fact that racial injustice is the most problematic aspect of the nation’s heritage is also the reason that it is the focus of the progressive assault on America and its social contract. For obvious reasons, progressives largely concentrate on one race—American blacks, or “African-Americans” as they have come to be known through at least five permutations of linguistic political correctness since World War II: “coloreds,” “Negroes,” “blacks,” “persons of color” and—only then— “African-Americans.” The injustices of slavery and segregation and the historic sufferings of this community form an arguable basis for the progressive indictment, but only by systematically ignoring the historic gains—unprecedented and unparalleled—of this same community, which are the direct result of America’s tolerant and individual-centered social contract.

The introduction to this volume, “The Reds and the Blacks,” explains how the left’s melodrama of “oppression” and “social justice” is an extension of Marx’s discredited formulas of class oppression, which if successful will lead to the same results. Parts I and II that follow address the falling-away of the civil rights movement from the values championed by Martin Luther King, precisely because they are the values enshrined in the American founding and diametrically opposed to the socialist values of progressives.

“Memories in Memphis,” is an account of my visit to the National Civil Rights Museum housed in the motel where King was murdered. Inexplicably, the Civil Rights museum honors not only Dr. King but the anti-Semitic and anti-American racist Elijah Muhammad along with Malcolm X who derided King and the civil rights movement, claiming that racist America would never let them succeed. The museum provided a summary statement of the transformation of the civil rights movement after King’s death.

Until that moment the civil rights movement was a mass effort to integrate African-Americans into America’s multi-ethnic democracy. Less than a decade later it had become a movement to refashion racial grievances into a general assault on white people, on America and on the idea of a society in which people were judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. It was now color-coded instead of color-blind. The post-King civil rights movement was a creation of the political left and an assault on the most basic tenet of America’s social contract, enshrined in the 14th Amendment: the commitment to equal rights for all individuals, and thus to race-neutral standards and governmental practices. This commitment was anathema to progressives who were collectivists. They changed the course of the civil rights cause into a movement to transform the very meaning of the 14th Amendment and turn it into its opposite by institutionalizing racial preferences—the same kind of discriminatory practices that had characterized the era of segregation just passed. Destroying King’s legacy, progressives set out to recreate a race-conscious political culture in which blacks and a handful of designated minorities were singled out as groups to be racially privileged above all others, and particularly above whites who were made targets of exclusion, suspicion and disapprobation regardless of their actions or beliefs.

The third part of this volume recounts an effort I conducted in the spring of 2001 to oppose a campaign by the left to secure reparations for slavery 137 years after the fact. Reparations for slavery became a favored project of progressives because it made sure that the heritage of America’s “peculiar institution” remained alive and well a century and more after its abolition. In fact, reparations were a cause that had been first proposed in 1969, during the civil rights era – and was rejected by every major civil rights organization. At the time of the proposal there were no slaves alive to receive reparations, while the vast majority of Americans who would be forced to pay them were descended from immigrants who had arrived in America well after slavery was abolished. The clear goal of the radicals who launched the campaign was to indict America as a racist society, and sow the seeds of racial division and conflict. It also provided an ideological justification for a shakedown effort of the kind that had come to characterize the civil rights leadership of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Pay us or we’ll denounce you as racists.

Democratic congressman John Conyers was the author of the legislative bill supported by the reparations movement. During the controversy, a Republican majority in the House of Representatives prevented Conyers’s legislation from being passed out of the Judiciary Committee and sent to the House floor, a fact that the left seized on to insinuate that Republicans were racists. Yet when Democrats won control of the House in 2006 and Conyers became chair of the Judiciary Committee under a newly elected African-American president, the bill was not passed and the reparations issue, which had been infused with such ersatz moral urgency until then, faded quickly from view. Few episodes seem better designed to illustrate how race had become a political weapon for a movement driven more by its anti-American and anti-white animus than a desire to correct actual injustices.

Yet this animus is so integral to the progressive mind-set that they refuse to let the reparations idea die. In June 2014, the prestigious Atlantic Monthly published a lengthy and widely praised, “Case for Reparations” by Ta-Nehisi Coates. Coates’ argument shared the features characteristic of all reparations proponents – anti-white racism and anti-American fervor, along with a consistent failure to confront the complexity of the facts. Slavery existed in black Africa for a thousand years before a white European ever set foot on the continent. The African slaves who were shipped to the western hemisphere were enslaved in the first place by black Africans and then sold to European traders. At the time of the Atlantic slave trade, slavery had existed in all societies and among all ethnicities for 3,000 years and was never regarded as immoral until white Christians declared it so in the late 18th Century, and then launched the anti-slavery movement.

In 1787 a new nation was established on the American continent formally dedicating itself to the proposition that all men were created equal. In a little over a generation, Americans abolished slavery – an institution that still exists in Africa today. There were not 250 years of American slavery as Coates and others falsely maintain but 76 – from the adoption of the Constitution in 1787 until the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. To enforce that Proclamation and end slavery three hundred and fifty thousand mostly (but not exclusively) white Americans sacrificed their lives in a war bloodier than all America’s wars since.

Why should the government that led the world in liberating slaves be punished more than a hundred years later, and when all slaves and slave owners are dead? Coates attempts to answer the question by devoting the bulk of his essay to the plight of inner city black communities. In his presentation, segregation and discriminatory housing laws – legacies of slavery’s racist attitudes – form the moral grounds for a current reparations claim. But in making this claim Coates ignores the remarkable rise of the black middle class, virtually non-existent in 1940, but which now encompasses half of all African Americans. This fact alone nullifies his argument that slavery and segregation – both now long past — are chiefly responsible for black poverty. Like other reparations advocates, Coates contemptuously dismisses the notion that the decline of the black family and pathologies associated with welfare dependency and absent fathers might lie at the root of the problem. Like them he also fails to acknowledge the trillions of welfare dollars that have been devoted to ameliorating black poverty and failed, or to explain why reparations trillions would lead to a different result.

Finally this volume examines the way progressive attacks on a chimerical “white supremacy” have been destructive for all citizens. The principal target of this racism, as already noted, is the idea of equal treatment for all individuals under the law, an idea that progressives seek to replace with group identities and group privileges based on race and gender. The idea of an equality of individuals without regard to race, ethnicity or gender, on the other hand, is the very idea that informs the American identity, and unites its diverse communities into a single nation.

There will always be racists and bigots. Only utopians will fail to understand this and seek to deploy the coercive powers of the state to make everyone engage in the gestural politics of politically correct right-thinking. By contrast, people connected to the realities of this world recognize that America is the most tolerant of societies. Americans’ cultural acceptance of racial, ethnic and gender minorities is virtually without parallel in human history. Interracial marriage, once the strongest racist taboo, is now hardly noticed, whether among ordinary Americans or cultural celebrities; large American cities – Detroit, Philadelphia and Atlanta – are run by African American administrations and an African American has been twice elected to the White House. In their battles with “white supremacy,” progressives cling to a past that is already remote. They have become the true reactionaries of our time, and it is hardly surprising that they are its new racists as well.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
No. Possibly an implication, but no direct threat. Hence why they used that specific language. And in order to use the term "fired" they resorted to Perez Hilton hearsay.

Are you saying you know more about journalism than Jezebel? Why haven't they issued a correction on that statement?

Saying you are obligated to do something as part of your job very clearly implies you can lose your job for not doing it. The headline is fine based solely on the letter.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
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Saying you are obligated to do something as part of your job very clearly implies you can lose your job for not doing it. The headline is fine based solely on the letter.
So me and Jezebel agree that news shouldn't report on implications based on their statement. Instead they resorted to hearsay reporting of Perez Hilton. I think it's a small mistake by them to do that. As it crosses the line a bit between news and gossip. You disagree with us both and find implications an acceptable substitute for statements of fact.

is that an accurate summary?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
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So me and Jezebel agree that news shouldn't report on implications based on their statement.

I don't know why you're speaking for Jezebel but as someone who reads that site fairly regularly I sincerely doubt they would agree with your description of their position.

Instead they resorted to hearsay reporting of Perez Hilton. I think it's a small mistake by them to do that. As it crosses the line a bit between news and gossip.

Jezebel is literally part of a gossip site network, haha.

Regardless, they reported on both the letter from the union and additional information provided by Perez Hilton, while providing needed context for the additional info. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

You disagree with us both and find implications an acceptable substitute for statements of fact.

No, I find the headline to be reasonable conjecture from the documents provided. There is no substitution.

is that an accurate summary?

Lol, no.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
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They literally said "a threat not found in the letter"

Reconcile that for me. I won't speak for you or Jezebel anymore. I apologize for that. But please explain.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
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They literally said "a threat not found in the letter"

Reconcile that for me. I won't speak for you or Jezebel anymore. I apologize for that. But please explain.

That such a threat was not explicitly stated in the letter. It was certainly implicitly stated in the letter though, which is again fine for me.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
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Fine for you under the context of a gossip site or news reporting?

I would hold the New York Times to a higher standard than a blog, even if both are reporting news. There's not much else to say other than I think it's fine in this context.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Without read this entire thread, the Rockettes are paid to be performers. They are paid, they should and will go where their boss wants them to perform. Period.
Let's flip this question around to a baker that doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
Or
A employee who won't sit in the same office space as someone whom they don't like at work.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,831
34,771
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So as long as the anti-gay bakers call themselves the Culinary Arts Studio, you'd be fine with them refusing to bake their culinary creations for gay weddings? Again, I call shens.

The basis of that argument would hinge on convincing the body that reviews complaints that you are indeed primarily an "artist" for the purposes of said business. A bakery that makes wedding cakes as a matter of course but declines to do so for a gay couple in an explicit violation of state law would not appear to meet that standard.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
I would hold the New York Times to a higher standard than a blog, even if both are reporting news. There's not much else to say other than I think it's fine in this context.
So back to my point. It was uncorroborated, to which you initially said no. But then said the implication is acceptable given their nature as a gossip site. Fun exercise. Would do again. Thanks.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
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So back to my point. It was uncorroborated, to which you initially said no. But then said the implication is acceptable given their nature as a gossip site. Fun exercise. Would do again. Thanks.

Right, and we established that it was corroborated. What's the confusion?
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
We all get assignments and work we don't agree with but do anyway, if they want to abstain then that is their choice but it is also up to their employers discretion as to if they remain employed.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Wait, you are alleging a conspiracy between Jezebel and the rockettes union?? I love it. Fake news is news created with the intent to deceive. There is zero evidence that was the case here. This is so simple anyone can grasp it, no matter how brainless.

I have genuinely lost track of all the conspiracies you believe in at this point. Absolutely hilarious.
Man, a nuclear bunker buster could not penetrate your +1,000,000 Shell of Stupid. No, I am not alleging any conspiracy. I am saying that a left wing source created an accusation based partially on truth, then another left wing organization sensationalized it as news because it fits their left wing bias. The two are similarly driven by the same desire to destroy the right wing and promote the left wing into power, so they need no conspiracy. Had one Rockette been protesting performing for Obama's event, the story would have not been written, or would have been a hit piece on the Rockette. We see the same behavior when Breitbart publishes some half-truth and FoxNews runs with it. We simply see that behavior much less often because the great preponderance of the main stream media are left wingers.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
There are a lot of lily white self proclaimed liberal racists out there, don't let them fool you because they don't wear it openly on their sleeves while waving the confederate flag around like conservatives.

https://www.encounterbooks.com/book...foKPQbIVxILuMnXWRFSoiekHh9xWVEXqCRxoCnOLw_wcB

Progressive Racism
I would agree that progressives are racists as far as believing things such as blacks are unable to get ID, but I have a couple issues with that article. First, when a nation establishes itself by uniquely saying "All men are created equal" and yet accepts genetic slavery, that is a non-trivial issue. It's as though I champion private property rights while picking your pocket every day of your life. Second, while we did fight a boody civil war primarily to end slavery while keeping together the union, we were fighting ourselves. I don't think we deserve any majors kudos for fighting to abolish slavery while we were also fighting to keep it.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The basis of that argument would hinge on convincing the body that reviews complaints that you are indeed primarily an "artist" for the purposes of said business. A bakery that makes wedding cakes as a matter of course but declines to do so for a gay couple in an explicit violation of state law would not appear to meet that standard.
There is a HELL of a lot more artistic freedom in building a wedding cake than in being a Rockette. Rockettes are given a well choreographed script which they must follow exactly. They may not kick in a direction of their choice, or to a height of their choice, or to a beat of their choosing. They may not even select their own clothing.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
Without read this entire thread, the Rockettes are paid to be performers. They are paid, they should and will go where their boss wants them to perform. Period.
Let's flip this question around to a baker that doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
Or
A employee who won't sit in the same office space as someone whom they don't like at work.
A business can refuse someone for bad behavior not for who they are as a person.

You can't refuse service for being gay, however you can refuse someone for not wearing a shirt or shoes.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,990
18,337
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This is how I see it:

Baker doesn't want to make cake because doesn't agree with lifestyle, doesn't fear being sexually assaulted by gay couple.

Rockette doesn't want to perform due to DT's flagrant attitude towards sexual assault, probably disgusted and fear the same fate for themselves after the inauguration.

My brain doesn't equate these two particular situations. If the baker feared for some kind of personal harm or sexual assault in some way due to awesome cake making skills, I could possibly entertain the equation.
 
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