The Ryan Budget Should Help Romney

[sunzt]

I actually like the Ryan budget and hence his pick as VP. Even though Romney says his budget "will be different" it's highly probable that if he would present a budget with "Ryan aspects" including cutting medicare and SS.

I've been advocating for cutting SS and medicare as key parts for balancing the budget and if they manage to push that through then I'd vote for them. I'm not enthusiastic about his tax cuts for the wealthy because it would only make it that much harder to balance the budget and reduce the possibility of getting it passed.

However, I remain hesitant since Ryan's attitudes on women's choice seem activist. I'd prefer if they don't touch social issues and leave it as status quo. In other words, if a bill to ban gay marriage, abortion, or affirmative action lands on the president's desk then I would feel Ryan would push Romney even more to sign it.

Anyone see it that way as well?

 

[UberNeuman]

I'm sure the seniors are just going to love him....

 

[MomentsofSanity]

In polling back when it was put out more than 50% of conservative respondants opposed it. I don't think it helps him at all.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/poll-conservatives-and-republicans-oppose-ryan-budget.php

Among conservatives, 54% are opposed. Among current seniors — who would not be affected by the changes in the Ryan Medicare plan — a full 74% are opposed, even after they’re told that Ryan’s plan affects Americans 55 years of age and younger.

 

[XZeroII]

I like people who think outside the box. I may not like all of their ideas and don't think all of their ideas should be accepted, but I like it when people try to come up with new ways to solve old problems. I think Paul might be that type of person.

 

[MontyAC]

If people are well informed they should know that Social Security and Medicare are self-sustaining and do not affect the budget. In fact, Congress, in their "great wisdom", takes the SS surplus and use that to reduce the budget. The elderly voters will not vote for this ticket.

 

[sunzt]

If people are well informed they should know that Social Security and Medicare are self-sustaining and do not affect the budget. In fact, Congress, in their "great wisdom", takes the SS surplus and use that to reduce the budget. The elderly voters will not vote for this ticket.

SS & medicare won't be self-sustaining for much longer... I partly blame those from that generation for screwing over future generations.

 

[Bitek]

Saying you believe in the Ryan budget to balance the budget is like saying you believe in unicorns to cure cancer, with the exception that at least the cancer-curing properties of unicorns have not yet been disproven.

Say if you believe in cutting SS and Medicare. The Ryan budget does cut that.
Saying the Ryan budget cuts the deficit is a fraud

 

[MontyAC]

SS & medicare won't be self-sustaining for much longer... I partly blame those from that generation for screwing over future generations.

Blame Congress for not doing anything to change the SS laws to make it sustaining for future generations.

 

[Dulanic]

SS & medicare won't be self-sustaining for much longer... I partly blame those from that generation for screwing over future generations.

That may be, but the right acts like it will save the deficits today.

 

[sunzt]

Blame Congress for not doing anything to change the SS laws to make it sustaining for future generations.

So... in other words blame that generation...

"The average age of a senator is 60 (the oldest ever) and the average age of a member of the House is 55 (the oldest in more than a century). "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15348258/ns/politics/t/grayest-congress/#.UCcVjaNnWkc

 

[sunzt]

That may be, but the right acts like it will save the deficits today.

It won't magically save it today or in a year, but over time it will reduce the budget deficits to more sustainable levels.

 

[nehalem256]

I'm sure the seniors are just going to love him....

Why wouldnt they?

Under Ryan’s plan, seniors currently in Medicare stay in the existing system. But in 2023, people over 65 would pick an insurance plan in a new Medicare exchange system, with Medicare competing with other insurers for their business.

http://news.yahoo.com/understanding-paul-ryan-medicare-reform-plan-three-minutes-144610365.html

It will only effect people age 54 and younger. I mean unless the Democrats lie about Paul Ryan's plan?

Of course if his plan is so great why is he waiting so long to implement? And why will current seniors be grandfathered into current Medicare?

 

[techs]

Ryans Medicare proposal actually makes no sense for anyone to use.

If people will have the "option" of getting a voucher that will cover less and less of the projected cost of health insurance versus the current plan which has built in limitation as to increases in costs, who would risk it?

And, if Ryan is going to give people a choice to go with either plan, and it would have to be everyone 54 and younger, those people would get no savings since he is not going to reduce SS Medicare taxes.

So, where are Ryans phoney savings coming from. There are two possibilities. The first is that private health insurance plans will cost less than Medicare and therefore save money. Not only is that crazy since Medicare blows away any current health insurance plan in services provided per dollar, the current attempt to add a private option to Medicare failed spectaculary and cost the government more money.
So, the only possible way for Ryans plan to work is to allow people who can longer afford to pay for the difference between the vouchers and the cost of insurance to just die. Fat chance. First you will have tens of millions of grandma's showing up the local welfare office or homeless shelter because they no longer have enough to pay for shelter after paying the health insurance company. And as the gap grows bigger you will just have grandma's camping out in front of hospitals to die. And I can guarantee you that states, cities and towns will try to help them, and when they can't afford any more the Federal Government will step in. And in that case it will cost the US more than if they stuck with traditional Medicare.

There IS a path out of the Medicare problem.
It starts with raising the age when Medicare is available. People live like 14 years longer than when Medicare started, and yet despite that even a 5 year change in the effective date pushes the problem 30-40 years down the road. In fact, almost to the end of the boomers.
Second we can get serious about our weight. We need a national push to lose weight. Medicare would still be viable for 20 or more years past the date the plan would go bust if we just lost some weight. In the last 30 years obesity has doubled. THAT is what is also killing Medicare. We need a fat tax. Make it cost money to be obese if you are not ill. Economic incentive works pretty good.

The point is that Ryans plan for Medicare not only saves NOTHING it actually will cost a lot more unless the government will just let grandma die for lack of care. And that is NOT going to happen

 

[LegendKiller]

I actually like the Ryan budget and hence his pick as VP. Even though Romney says his budget "will be different" it's highly probable that if he would present a budget with "Ryan aspects" including cutting medicare and SS.

I've been advocating for cutting SS and medicare as key parts for balancing the budget and if they manage to push that through then I'd vote for them. I'm not enthusiastic about his tax cuts for the wealthy because it would only make it that much harder to balance the budget and reduce the possibility of getting it passed.

However, I remain hesitant since Ryan's attitudes on women's choice seem activist. I'd prefer if they don't touch social issues and leave it as status quo. In other words, if a bill to ban gay marriage, abortion, or affirmative action lands on the president's desk then I would feel Ryan would push Romney even more to sign it.

Anyone see it that way as well?

Why, exactly, do you like it?

Do you like the fact that it doesn't have any grounding in real world economics?

Do you like the fact that it doesn't actually tell you how federal revenues are expected to increase?

Do you like that it is BS in the face of economic reality that the US had great economic times DESPITE higher tax rates than Ryan proposes?

Do you like the fact that it doesn't address one of the biggest tax loopholes of all, capital gains?

His "budget" is a fucking joke. If you don't realize that then you are a foolish person.

 

[sunzt]

Why, exactly, do you like it?

Do you like the fact that it doesn't have any grounding in real world economics?

Do you like the fact that it doesn't actually tell you how federal revenues are expected to increase?

Do you like that it is BS in the face of economic reality that the US had great economic times DESPITE higher tax rates than Ryan proposes?

Do you like the fact that it doesn't address one of the biggest tax loopholes of all, capital gains?

His "budget" is a fucking joke. If you don't realize that then you are a foolish person.

It brings SS and Medicare cuts into serious discussion for balancing the budget and that's what needs to be on the table.

 

[LegendKiller]

It brings SS and Medicare cuts into serious discussion for balancing the budget and that's what needs to be on the table.

And it does absolutely nothing to cut the military and depends on fairy tale bullshit tax gains through cuts to bridge the gap. Further, it says nothing about how to get his own running mate from dodging taxes by using the Swiss and Caymans nor how to stop the bullshit of Carried Interest.

The only reason why you should like his plan is if you derive the majority of your income from investments, you are a tax dodger and you make $1M+ a year. Otherwise you are being fucked.

 

[K1052]

It brings SS and Medicare cuts into serious discussion for balancing the budget and that's what needs to be on the table.

But keeps defense cuts off the table. Because its ok to take away healthcare for Americans but not super expensive useless wars that net us nothing.

 

[LegendKiller]

But keeps defense cuts off the table. Because its ok to take away healthcare for Americans but not super expensive useless wars that net us nothing.

This is what is so fucking hilarious about Americans. They are so superficial that as long as Ryan or some other tramp creates a veneer of budgetary nobility he'll suck the guy off. Yet they fail to realize that it's a fucking game.

As long as people like him refuse to call *ALL* candidates out on such bullshit it'll continue and we'll never get any meaningful candidate.

It's goddamn hilarious also that the supposed "budget man" and the guy who knows the US budget the best in Congress is running with a guy who has used every tax dodge to avoid actually funding the US budget. So much integrity.

 

[K1052]

This is what is so fucking hilarious about Americans. They are so superficial that as long as Ryan or some other tramp creates a veneer of budgetary nobility he'll suck the guy off. Yet they fail to realize that it's a fucking game.

As long as people like him refuse to call *ALL* candidates out on such bullshit it'll continue and we'll never get any meaningful candidate.

It's goddamn hilarious also that the supposed "budget man" and the guy who knows the US budget the best in Congress is running with a guy who has used every tax dodge to avoid actually funding the US budget. So much integrity.

When someone tells me a PE guy is looking out for my best interest I automatically get concerned. Now we have one paired with Ryan who people think is smart because he's got charts and imaginary budget crap to dazzle people with and is ultra socially conservative.

I've never considered donating money to a campaign but the Romney/Ryan ticket is tempting me.

 

[her209]

Also keep in mind that Ryan's plan exempted seniors 55 years and older from the Medicare voucher system. Those that are 55 and older still suck on the current Medicare tit.

 

[sunzt]

I never said i don't want military cuts. They are part of the equation as well, and there has been some defense cuts including sequestration. So I'm for that too.

Like I said before, i'm not a fan of his tax cuts.

My main point is that the Ryan Budget prominently brings SS & Medicare cuts to the table, which are sacred cows for both parties.

 

[sunzt]

Also keep in mind that Ryan's plan exempted seniors 55 years and older from the Medicare voucher system. Those that are 55 and older still suck on the current Medicare tit.

Yeah, I'm ok with that.

 

[berzerker60]

So basically you're saying you don't like the Ryan budget, you just like cutting Medicare and SS. That's a pretty different argument. You certainly have to admit those are popular programs with likely voters, so even if it's wise to find cost savings in them, that's a far cry from "should help Romney."

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

So basically you're saying you don't like the Ryan budget, you just like cutting Medicare and SS. That's a pretty different argument. You certainly have to admit those are popular programs with likely voters, so even if it's wise to find cost savings in them, that's a far cry from "should help Romney."

He's basically saying he's a fucking clueless misinformed idiot, which many in this thread have already proven quite thoroughly.

It's really this kind of idiot voter that is screwing the country. Someone who doesn't actually bother to probe into the facts beyond a mere surface level, and refuses to acknowledge that he's flat out wrong when shown the light. This is your modern conservative voter in a nutshell and the reason we are stuck with such moronic candidates on the right.

 

[umbrella39]

Saying you believe in the Ryan budget to balance the budget is like saying you believe in unicorns to cure cancer...

My money is on the unicorns...