The [s]rent[/s] GPU prices are too damn high!

[VirtualLarry]

Well, picked up a second GTX 1660 ti Ventus off of ebay. I don't don't suppose that you could SLI the lower-end cards? No matter, I want to use them for Compute. F@H in Dec., here I come!

Edit:

Price?

It was $210, I made an offer.

 

[Ranulf]

Price?

 

[mopardude87]

As long as you plan to hold on to 1080/60 then that is fair!

I am back at 1080p as well and GTA V/BF1/BF5 maxed out don't even come close to 6gb of vram on my 2070. I don't run RT in BF5 cause its still a performance hog and its very stuttery anyways. BF5 i barely play cause its just inferior to previous BF titles period.

Other games in the future will prob pass right pass 6gb and by then how well off will a 6gb 2060 be performance wise anyways?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

1660ti is the only thing I’d consider replacing my 280x with.
I may do it for an upcoming build, I may wait because the 280x unexciting but good enough.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Jimmy McMillan says it best, but you are close Larry

I agree, too many expensive GPUs. I miss GPU pricing from like 15-20 years ago where $200 pretty much got you high end/top of the line 2x as fast as last years model.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Yeah. The 5700XT is twice as fast as my RX480, but at $400+ for an aftermarket model it is also twice as expensive as my RX480 was when I purchased it 3 years ago. There has been zero improvement in the price/performance metric in the past 3 years. So 3 years later I have to pay double if I want to double my performance. No thank you. I'll be holding on to my RX480 for as long as I can.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Jimmy McMillan says it best, but you are close Larry

I agree, too many expensive GPUs. I miss GPU pricing from like 15-20 years ago where $200 pretty much got you high end/top of the line 2x as fast as last years model.

Well said

Yeah. The 5700XT is twice as fast as my RX480, but at $400+ for an aftermarket model it is also twice as expensive as my RX480 was when I purchased it 3 years ago. There has been zero improvement in the price/performance metric in the past 3 years. So 3 years later I have to pay double if I want to double my performance. No thank you. I'll be holding on to my RX480 for as long as I can.

I agree that’s why I’ll likely be holding on to my 280x

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Jimmy McMillan says it best, but you are close Larry

I agree, too many expensive GPUs. I miss GPU pricing from like 15-20 years ago where $200 pretty much got you high end/top of the line 2x as fast as last years model.

Shoot, I just miss the gpu pricing from 5 years ago. Back then I got my 970 for $340 and it was neck and neck with the 780 Ti for second best gpu on the market. Now $350 for an RX 5700 that's kind of the lower half of the third tier now despite a die that's only 64% the size of the one on my 970. I don't even have a gpu right now (my 970 is dead) and I can't stomach the thought of buying today. Especially not the year before a new console gen where cards age like wine into vinegar.

 

[mopardude87]

I don't even have a gpu right now (my 970 is dead) and I can't stomach the thought of buying today.

Yeah i wasn't to happy when my 1070ti died. Bought it used off a friend and ironically going back to 2006 its the one and only gpu i bought used and the only one that has failed completely as well. I wanted a 1080ti but going used i wasn't in the mood to test my luck again so i bought a brand new Strix 2070. Seems a bit faster but not worlds faster of course. Nothing i play of course takes advantage of RTX so i got so far a useless feature on it atm that i paid for technically.

Maybe i will find a contributed folding program or something beneficial to use the RT cores. Not sure if anything does but if i do i guess i can feel a bit better about the "upgrade" . Outside of this 2070 the entire upper stack looks bad in comparison price and performance wise. I got a feeling i will be sitting on this 2070 for 3 years easily.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What’s the prospect of there being a decently priced and at minimum 30% better performing card next year vs current cards?

 

[samboy]

I'm sticking with my GTX 970 for a while; my hope is that prices will drop next year:-

1. Intel is reentering the market
2. AMD will be releasing more product
3. There is a also a Chinese manufacturer bring discrete cards to market (1080ti performance level)

This should cause prices to drop....... NVidia has recently had a home run on pricing (limited competition at mid or high end) and there is plenty of room to fall.

I did have to purchase a card for a relative recently (after encouraging them to wait if possible) and chose a GTX 1660 base card off Amazon for $180. This card actually seems pretty good value for money and around 40% faster than the 970. Seems like a pretty huge step in $$ if you want something significantly better than this.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Objectively we're where CPU market was 2013-2017 where the CPUs were stuck at 4c8t at $300 mark for years without any meaningful performance or performance/price increases. There were always faster options available in the form of HEDT, you just had to pay double/triple.

My hope is that Intel entering the discrete market in 2020 and nVidia jumping to 7nm same year will finally force prices down.

 

[chrisjames61]

Power-wise, at least according to the NH profitability calculator, the 1660ti makes around $1-2/mo, after electricity costs.

I don't know anything about mining but $1-2 per month? What was it at its peak?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Which peak? Three years ago, I had old Hawaii cards outearning that by a fair margin. Things were different then.

 

[maddie]

I don't know anything about mining but $1-2 per month? What was it at its peak?

ROI, and I say again, ROI. There are much better avenues for investments.

 

[DrMrLordX]

ROI, and I say again, ROI. There are much better avenues for investments.

People liked the immediacy of returns. For awhile there, ROI on mining was amazing (until the tax man showed up). For example, back in summer of 2016, I think a used R9 290 could pull in maybe $30-$50 a month depending on what you were mining and when. Used they were $200 or less (prices were inflated thanks to mining). They had about a 6 month payoff, after which point everything was pure profit . . . not counting the rising price of the tokens you mined. If you HODLed, the ROI was insane. Anyway if you took difficulty shifts and price increases off the table, you were looking at 100% profit by the end of the year, which is really, really good. That's after taking power into account. One of the problems was scaling out your investment. Big mining setups got expensive and required special power arrangements. There was basically zero risk until early 2018.

Today, ROI is much worse, but returns are more preditable. Prices and difficulty are pretty stagnant. $2/month is substantially worse, but if the up-front investment is only $210, that's %11.4 annually which beats out most stock dividends. You don't have the benefit of compounding or increased equity though, and you can't just sell the card later at the purchase price so it doesn't have the benefit of maturation like a bond. You've gotta ride it for awhile to see net profit. The real problem is that, eventually, PoW will go away on nearly every project except maybe BTC.

 

[swilli89]

Yep.. that's why when I found a 1070 Ti for $200 locally I snatched it a few months ago and don't think I'll look for something for another year or two.

 

[maddie]

People liked the immediacy of returns. For awhile there, ROI on mining was amazing (until the tax man showed up). For example, back in summer of 2016, I think a used R9 290 could pull in maybe $30-$50 a month depending on what you were mining and when. Used they were $200 or less (prices were inflated thanks to mining). They had about a 6 month payoff, after which point everything was pure profit . . . not counting the rising price of the tokens you mined. If you HODLed, the ROI was insane. Anyway if you took difficulty shifts and price increases off the table, you were looking at 100% profit by the end of the year, which is really, really good. That's after taking power into account. One of the problems was scaling out your investment. Big mining setups got expensive and required special power arrangements. There was basically zero risk until early 2018.

Today, ROI is much worse, but returns are more preditable. Prices and difficulty are pretty stagnant. $2/month is substantially worse, but if the up-front investment is only $210, that's %11.4 annually which beats out most stock dividends. You don't have the benefit of compounding or increased equity though, and you can't just sell the card later at the purchase price so it doesn't have the benefit of maturation like a bond. You've gotta ride it for awhile to see net profit. The real problem is that, eventually, PoW will go away on nearly every project except maybe BTC.

Agreed, what I failed to write is ignoring depreciation in the calculation. I'm fairly certain that you lose more through depreciation than those earnings ($24)annually. Thought about it after the post, but realized the futility of it all. Yes, once upon a time mining was great,and maybe it will be again, but not now.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Agreed, what I failed to write is ignoring depreciation in the calculation. I'm fairly certain that you lose more through depreciation than those earnings ($24)annually. Thought about it after the post, but realized the futility of it all. Yes, once upon a time mining was great,and maybe it will be again, but not now.

That's a good point. But once you reach the point of $0 depreciation, you don't have to stop mining, it's not like the card fails to work. Plus, if you were to set it up as a business, the depreciation should cover your earnings, so that taxes should be a wash.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I figure the RTX 3xxx series will have a solid node to node bump from the RTX 2xxx series and while it would be a cold day in hell for NV to drop their margins, I figure a lot of used RTX 2xxx inventory will flood the market, bringing appreciable boosts in performance for reasonable amounts of money.

Hopefully something like all the 980Ti owners jumping to the 1080/1070 and dumping their cards for half off or less.

To get off my 980TI I'm really looking for RTX 2080/1080ti levels of performance for ~$300 bucks.

Then I'll be able to play all my games launched through 2018 at a smooth 1440p or 4k.

 

[AtenRa]

Yeah. The 5700XT is twice as fast as my RX480, but at $400+ for an aftermarket model it is also twice as expensive as my RX480 was when I purchased it 3 years ago. There has been zero improvement in the price/performance metric in the past 3 years. So 3 years later I have to pay double if I want to double my performance. No thank you. I'll be holding on to my RX480 for as long as I can.

Not only the 5700XT is double the price but after more than three years later, there is no RX480 replacement card yet from AMD.
And things are not that much better from the other camp either, the only card at the same price point of RX480 8GB at launch ($230), is the GTX1660 6GB that is not actually an upgrade if you have an OC RX480 8GB model.

I was waiting for NAVI to replace my RX480 8GB but with those prices I instead bought a 31.5" 1440p 144Hz curved monitor. No way to give them double the money for that performance more than 3 years after the RX480 release.

 

[amrnuke]

Not only the 5700XT is double the price but after more than three years later, there is no RX480 replacement card yet from AMD.
And things are not that much better from the other camp either, the only card at the same price point of RX480 8GB at launch ($230), is the GTX1660 6GB that is not actually an upgrade if you have an OC RX480 8GB model.

I was waiting for NAVI to replace my RX480 8GB but with those prices I instead bought a 31.5" 1440p 144Hz curved monitor. No way to give them double the money for that performance more than 3 years after the RX480 release.

I'm agreeing a lot.

I'm currently running just a 2200G, planning a 3600 + something upgrade.

This chart has me thinking about just snagging a used Polaris card until something tenable comes out. Not going to be doing any significant gaming in the immediate future, somewhat need the CPU upgrade, but obviously without on board graphics I need something for video.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Not only the 5700XT is double the price but after more than three years later, there is no RX480 replacement card yet from AMD.
And things are not that much better from the other camp either, the only card at the same price point of RX480 8GB at launch ($230), is the GTX1660 6GB that is not actually an upgrade if you have an OC RX480 8GB model.

I was waiting for NAVI to replace my RX480 8GB but with those prices I instead bought a 31.5" 1440p 144Hz curved monitor. No way to give them double the money for that performance more than 3 years after the RX480 release.

Thing is 5700XT IS Polaris replacement.

RX480 was replacement for 270X/280X, it had the same die size as 270X but offered double performance and was trading blows with previous top end card 290X while still priced in the super affordable mid $200 slot. We got twice the performance for same midrange price.

5700XT has the same die size as RX480, and also has performance of previous top end card from AMD VEGA64/RadeonVII, but it now costs twice as much.

AMD is doing same thing as nVidia - they're releasing faster cards, but instead of slotting everything down they just set the prices higher and higher.

What's the point in AMD releasing anything slower than 5700 as a replacement to RX480 if it's going to have the same price and performance as RX480? There is no point other than marketing and justifying inflated prices for NAVE/RTX.

 

[Insomniator]

While I agree the pricing has been lame for years... does a 480 still play everything at 1080p? Are games stressing systems more and more every year like they used to back in the 2000's? It looks like Metro Exodus (newest/most advanced AAA title I could think of) still gets a playable ~35 FPS on ultra on a 480. Drop that down to Med/High and its probably near 50fps.

If software doesn't advance like it used too -- people don't have a reason to buy new cards regardless of the performance jump. This is also especially the case with esports titles running on tin cans -- the high end GPU market is becoming more and more of a niche segment. AMD and Nvidia have zero reason to give you a 1080TI for 200 bucks, there would be no market segmentation at that point.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I don't think it's lack of demand. 4K 60Hz displays and high refresh 2K displays are super affordable these days. I've had two 4K monitors for a couple of years and I paid less than $300 each. 144Hz 27" 1440p displays are in the same price range - you can get a nice one under $300. I think the demand for higher performing cards for 4K/high refresh gaming is there, just not at the current prices (hence the name of the thread the GPU prices are too damn high).

For now I can get away with RX480 because I mainly play older games, but I'd like to have something that can play newer games in 4K at acceptable frame rates at medium'ish settings and RX480 doesn't cut it. I wouldn't mind upgrading, just not at the current asking prices. Whereas previously I was updating my videocard just for funsies, this time around I'll be holding out until the prices come down or until there is a must play game that I got to have (unlikely as I don't see Half Life 3 coming out any time soon).