THe Sandia Cooler - Breakthrough in Air Cooling design

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
There is a 48 page long PDF file, thats full of math and physics calculations that shows why it works.
Physicists with math > your beliefs.


There is a WORKING prototype, that SHOWS that the design works.
Working prototype design > your beliefs.

The prototype is ~10cm in diameter, and has a cooling efficiency of ~0.2 degrees Celcius pr Watt (0.2C/W).

The thing works, and it works better than current designs.



No No No No! You cannot take my horse and buggy!!
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
So how do you get the heat off the cpu and onto the spinning cooler? Right now we have a large base pressed down hard onto the cpu and the best gunk we can find to transfer heat from one to the other. Would this not require some sort of lubricating grease between the cpu and the spinning cooler that was also an amazing heat transfer material and had zero friction (or the friction would grind down cooler and get turned into heat), oh and didn't wear out/burn up/etc over time (or our cooler would need a little oil reservoir).
 
Last edited:

bridito

Senior member
Jun 2, 2011
350
0
0
The thing works, and it works better than current designs.

Betcha it won't work better than this! (BTW, just being silly...)



I just can't see Sandia hitting the market at anywhere under $100 which makes it a toy only for the superenthusiasts, plus I don't think anyone has adequately addressed the question I had over on the Cases & Cooling thread on this: What happens when a dirt particle gets stuck in the gap. Screeeeeeeeeeeeeech... Sizzlesizzlesizzle...
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
0
What happens when a dirt particle gets stuck in the gap. Screeeeeeeeeeeeeech... Sizzlesizzlesizzle...

To be honest I have the same concern.. even that point someone made about
"The greater the relative mass, the lesser of an imbalance it takes to destroy it".

Still Im surprised someone found a differnt way to do things, Im eager to see what the finished product looks like, and how much they would end up costing.

Also some peoples concern about these "eating" fingers... seems valid enough as well. That wouldnt stop me from buying one though, if its less noisy and cools better than conventual air coolers.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
So how do you get the heat off the cpu and onto the spinning cooler? Right now we have a large base pressed down hard onto the cpu and the best gunk we can find to transfer heat from one to the other. Would this not require some sort of lubricating grease between the cpu and the spinning cooler that was also an amazing heat transfer material and had zero friction (or the friction would grind down cooler and get turned into heat), oh and didn't wear out/burn up/etc over time (or our cooler would need a little oil reservoir).

Questions are answered in the PDF.
 

bridito

Senior member
Jun 2, 2011
350
0
0
To be honest I have the same concern.. even that point someone made about
"The greater the relative mass, the lesser of an imbalance it takes to destroy it".

Still Im surprised someone found a differnt way to do things, Im eager to see what the finished product looks like, and how much they would end up costing.

Also some peoples concern about these "eating" fingers... seems valid enough as well. That wouldnt stop me from buying one though, if its less noisy and cools better than conventual air coolers.

IMHO, the finger eating can be handled well enough by a simple metal wire shroud like that standard on just about every PSU fan out there. I had construction next door once and I'd have grit on every surface in my house. I'd love to see how those minirocks could be kept out of the gap, or even depositing unevenly on the surface causing the infamous imbalance. I too love the audacity of this design (Not to be compared to the book: The Audacity Of A Dope by the current occupier of the White House ), but I'm not too sure that it's ready for real world prime time.
 

snarfbot

Senior member
Jul 22, 2007
385
38
91
The prototype is ~10cm in diameter, and has a cooling efficiency of ~0.2 degrees Celcius pr Watt (0.2C/W).

The thing works, and it works better than current designs.

personally i have an ultra 120 extreme, its a pretty big chunk of metal. it keeps my oc'd cpu about 10-15 degrees over ambient. so its equal to a high end cooler in terms of c per watt. 100 watts for instance would be 20 degrees c, which is well in line with traditional coolers.

so lets not get carried away, they have do more than publish pdf's to prove that its better than a traditional heatsink/fan.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
Questions are answered in the PDF.

All I can see is the bit in the diagram about the 0.001 inch thick self regulating air bearing that "presents negligible thermal resistance". I know for a fact that if you clamp the heatsink too the cpu without any thermal grease it fries. I know this because I once knew someone who decided to clean his pc and cleaned all the mess off the top of the cpu and heatsink then put it back together - it fried and died lol. I bet there was less then a 0.001 inch thick gap when he killed is poor P4.
 
Last edited:

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
522
126

Physicists with math > your beliefs.


There is a WORKING prototype, that SHOWS that the design works.
Working prototype design > your beliefs.


That cracked me up. Couldn't have said it better if I wanted (I didn't want to though).

The design itself is thinking outside the norm.
 

snarfbot

Senior member
Jul 22, 2007
385
38
91
All I can see is the bit in the diagram about the 0.001 inch thick self regulating air bearing that "presents negligible thermal resistance". I know for a fact that if you clamp the heatsink too the cpu without any thermal grease it fries. I know this because I once knew someone who decided to clean his pc and cleaned all the mess off the top of the cpu and heatsink then put it back together - it fried and died lol. I bet there was less then a 0.001 inch thick gap when he killed is poor P4.

according to wikipedia: "Air has a thermal conductivity of 0.022 W/m•K while TIMs have conductivities of 0.3 W/m•K and higher."

in other words it would be at a serious disadvantage.
 

Ratman6161

Senior member
Mar 21, 2008
616
75
91
That cracked me up. Couldn't have said it better if I wanted (I didn't want to though).

The design itself is thinking outside the norm.

Even assuming the math works out the way they say it does, there is such a thing as over engineering. Over engineering means spending a whole lot o time and a whole lot of money to come up with a solution that is beautiful, clever, and elegant...and very expensive when a $25 chunk of metal and a cheap fan does the job. The cheap chunk of metal and fan are not as beautifully designed but they don't need to be. Sometimes if the horse and buggy is getting the job done there is nothing to be gained by buying a car.
 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
There is a 48 page long PDF file, thats full of math and physics calculations that shows why it works.
Physicists with math > your beliefs.


There is a WORKING prototype, that SHOWS that the design works.
Working prototype design > your beliefs.

The prototype is ~10cm in diameter, and has a cooling efficiency of ~0.2 degrees Celcius pr Watt (0.2C/W).

The thing works, and it works better than current designs.

oooh no you arn't making me to read a 48 page long pdf file.

I won't fold until I see a retail version
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
0
this thing is retarded. that's a hell of a lot of metal. Going to cost a lot.


The "metal" used is much less.
Look at the prototype... its like ~10cm in diameter, and like 2.5cm tall.

Vs gigantic 900g heavy metal beasts, with fans on them, that are common today.

The only thing that could make this thing abit costly is the motor that spins it around. Theyd probably need to use a desent quality part for it, and not be able to use ones as cheap as those that go into fan's on current coolers.

Their prototype #1 is around ~0.20C/W, their makeing a prototype #2 soon, where their aiming to hit ~0.10C/W (probably just a bigger version or something).
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
All I can see is the bit in the diagram about the 0.001 inch thick self regulating air bearing that "presents negligible thermal resistance". I know for a fact that if you clamp the heatsink too the cpu without any thermal grease it fries. I know this because I once knew someone who decided to clean his pc and cleaned all the mess off the top of the cpu and heatsink then put it back together - it fried and died lol. I bet there was less then a 0.001 inch thick gap when he killed is poor P4.

The tiny gaps between your P4 and your heatsink aren't moving. The air gap in this design is being violently sheared between the stationary base and the rotating top, so it does conduct heat efficiently. They have IR images of the working prototype and you can see how well the base transfers heat to the spinning part across the air gap.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Physiscists with math dont mean jack. Might I remind you that "appeal to authority" is a logical fallacy that has cost america billions of dollars and probably millions of jobs by now. In my career I've read through hundreds of pages of engineering documents searching for any data that would indicate knowledge of fatal design flaws. That sort of information does not tend to makes its way into engineering documentation, especially stuff that has been fluffed up by marketing. So you can take your 48 page marketing snowjob and shovel it.

It is only simple common sense that you attach as few moving parts as possible to any air cooling system, and that those moving parts should be as simple as possible. MANY MANY attempts have been made to do otherwise, and they have ALL failed. There is no market for a device this complex because it doubles the cost and at best even if it works correctly it will only save a few watts. And it will never work correctly because they claim it will never get covered in dust and grime. That right there is proof that they are full of it. Once it does get grimy, it will fall out of balance and lose whatever efficiency advantage it may have had. This is basic engineering 101 stuff.
 

Seero

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,456
0
0
Physiscists with math dont mean jack. Might I remind you that "appeal to authority" is a logical fallacy that has cost america billions of dollars and probably millions of jobs by now. In my career I've read through hundreds of pages of engineering documents searching for any data that would indicate knowledge of fatal design flaws. That sort of information does not tend to makes its way into engineering documentation, especially stuff that has been fluffed up by marketing. So you can take your 48 page marketing snowjob and shovel it.

It is only simple common sense that you attach as few moving parts as possible to any air cooling system, and that those moving parts should be as simple as possible. MANY MANY attempts have been made to do otherwise, and they have ALL failed. There is no market for a device this complex because it doubles the cost and at best even if it works correctly it will only save a few watts. And it will never work correctly because they claim it will never get covered in dust and grime. That right there is proof that they are full of it. Once it does get grimy, it will fall out of balance and lose whatever efficiency advantage it may have had. This is basic engineering 101 stuff.
What exactly is so complicated?
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
All I can see is the bit in the diagram about the 0.001 inch thick self regulating air bearing that "presents negligible thermal resistance". I know for a fact that if you clamp the heatsink too the cpu without any thermal grease it fries. I know this because I once knew someone who decided to clean his pc and cleaned all the mess off the top of the cpu and heatsink then put it back together - it fried and died lol. I bet there was less then a 0.001 inch thick gap when he killed is poor P4.

Funny because the P4s are supposed to have thermal throttling which prevents it from frying.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
What exactly is so complicated?

Because they have to thermally couple a spinning impeller to a stationary base. They are going to need some kind of liquid lubricated thermally conductive bearing between the two thermal masses. If such a device were feasible they would be ubiquitous by now. Yet out of a billion air cooling systems around the world, precisely 0.000% of them use non-stationary thermal masses coupled by bearings. Probably because it is cheaper to do liquid cooling at that point. The thermal mass is always decoupled from the moving parts.
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,410
0
71
Because they have to thermally couple a spinning impeller to a stationary base. They are going to need some kind of liquid lubricated thermally conductive bearing between the two thermal masses. If such a device were feasible they would be ubiquitous by now. Yet out of a billion air cooling systems around the world, precisely 0.000% of them use non-stationary thermal masses coupled by bearings. Probably because it is cheaper to do liquid cooling at that point. The thermal mass is always decoupled from the moving parts.

Well, if you want to be pedantic, part of the thermal mass in a water cooling system is the water, and it moves.


What we really need is to have the cpu spinning along with the thermal mass. They need to make a socket that can spin at 2000rpm.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Then you have non-stationary interconnects. And they are 1000 times more failure prone than non-stationary thermal masses. For example, take the ribbon cables that wrap around screen hinges. Few of those will last more than 10 years. Probably 10% dont last 2 years. If you can see the folly of flexible ribbon cables, then I suspect you can probably see the folly of this cooling device.

btw water is not a thermal mass in the sense of mechanical devices, it is coolant. For water coolers, the thermal mass contains no moving parts.
 
Last edited:
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |