The Southern Poverty Law Center tags Moms for Liberty an extremist group

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Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,514
351
126
Call it like I see it.

Go back and answer the questions I presented.

Not much else to say. Your posts speak for themselves.
My message consistently has been this: The left is trying to politically sabotage another organization because it is getting too powerful.

How hard can it be to understand this statement? If you agree with it fine. If you don't agree with it, then its fine that way too.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,001
18,348
146

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
I said everything that needs to be said by me. The left is trying to delegitimize its opposition before the next elections. Anything else above this is just cherry.
Yes, they are. And that is what the Right is trying to do as well. That is part of what campaigning is about. You seem to not really understand this. Both sides seek to shine a light on the ugly parts of the other. The right just happens to have some really ugly parts right now.

My message consistently has been this: The left is trying to politically sabotage another organization because it is getting too powerful.

How hard can it be to understand this statement? If you agree with it fine. If you don't agree with it, then its fine that way too.
I would say that sabotage is a strong word here. As others have pointed out nothing said about that organization is untrue. Sure some of it is opinion, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and tell it to anyone that wants to listen. No matter what that opinion is. The real problem you have is that more people want to listen to SPLC's opinion than MfL's.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,514
351
126
The thread has been created. Ask any question related to Modi in that thread, including how he treats the opposition.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
136
Yes, they are. And that is what the Right is trying to do as well. That is part of what campaigning is about. You seem to not really understand this. Both sides seek to shine a light on the ugly parts of the other. The right just happens to have some really ugly parts right now.


I would say that sabotage is a strong word here. As others have pointed out nothing said about that organization is untrue. Sure some of it is opinion, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and tell it to anyone that wants to listen. No matter what that opinion is. The real problem you have is that more people want to listen to SPLC's opinion than MfL's.
He doesn’t seem to get how politics works at a very basic level. Yes, opposing parties criticize each other! Like…duh?

Well maybe he gets it at some level because he has tried to recast ‘criticism’ as ‘defamation’ - maybe because that’s the tool Modi has been using against his political opponents recently who criticize him. I don’t blame him for being ignorant of US law as after all I’m ignorant of Indian law. I do blame him for continuing to make the same false claims after being educated on the matter though.
 
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Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,514
351
126
Yes, they are. And that is what the Right is trying to do as well. That is part of what campaigning is about. You seem to not really understand this. Both sides seek to shine a light on the ugly parts of the other. The right just happens to have some really ugly parts right now.


I would say that sabotage is a strong word here. As others have pointed out nothing said about that organization is untrue. Sure some of it is opinion, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and tell it to anyone that wants to listen. No matter what that opinion is. The real problem you have is that more people want to listen to SPLC's opinion than MfL's.
The right has very ugly parts in the US, the ones in the left are just unreported. It's just that the media hasn't dared to report it.

Regarding Moms of Liberty, I don't agree with most of their objectives. I do care about Parental Rights. But they have a right to exist as much as everyone has a right to express their opinions so long they are not breaking the law.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
136
The right has very ugly parts in the US, the ones in the left are just unreported. It's just that the media hasn't dared to report it.
Nice #bothsides attempt. Give me a call the next time the left tries a coup.

Also feel free to give me a call the first time you see in a given year that deaths from left wing terror attacks exceed those from right wing terror attacks. Or hell, come even remotely close.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,514
351
126
Nice #bothsides attempt. Give me a call the next time the left tries a coup.

Also feel free to give me a call the first time you see in a given year that deaths from left wing terror attacks exceed those from right wing terror attacks. Or hell, come even remotely close.
It happens in my country, you see, we have some unique cases called Maoists.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
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It happens in my country, you see, we have some unique cases called Maoists.
We aren’t talking about India.

In America groups ideologically aligned with the Moms For Liberty recently attempted to overthrow the government. Extreme right wing extremists routinely carry out terrorist attacks here and have been the #1 source of terror deaths in America for decades, eclipsing Islamic terror.

So yeah, the reason why you hear about the right doing more bad things in America is because they are doing more bad things. This is obvious.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,001
18,348
146
Let’s not forget the American right recently attempted to voluntarily cause a global financial crisis to get changes to US food stamp policy.

Indeed, holding the world hostage over food. Their base is extreme. There’s no more far right, it’s just the right now
 
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Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,514
351
126
We aren’t talking about India.

In America groups ideologically aligned with the Moms For Liberty recently attempted to overthrow the government. Extreme right wing extremists routinely carry out terrorist attacks here and have been the #1 source of terror deaths in America for decades, eclipsing Islamic terror.

So yeah, the reason why you hear about the right doing more bad things in America is because they are doing more bad things. This is obvious.
I can show you an instance from the UK deal?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
The right has very ugly parts in the US, the ones in the left are just unreported. It's just that the media hasn't dared to report it.
That would only be true is you believe that the Right has not been doing their job of shining a light on the Left's ugly side. As far as I can tell, the right has done a very good job calling out the left one any and all problems in their party, it is just that the problems the left have, and they do have some, are quite minor in comparison.
Regarding Moms of Liberty, I don't agree with most of their objectives. I do care about Parental Rights. But they have a right to exist as much as everyone has a right to express their opinions so long they are not breaking the law.
Please understand that SPLC labeling them a hate group, or pretty much anyone labeling anyone anything else, does not prevent them from existing in the United States. The Ku Klux Klan still exists and openly holds meetings and marches in the US. The only time it becomes an issue is if they break some pretty specific and very narrowly defined laws, or if the US Government is doing it directly. Neither is the case here, so both sides are welcome to call each other anything they want all day long.
I know, free speech in America is kind of wild. You can say just about anything to, or about, just about anything and it is acceptable and even considered normal. The SPLC calling people terrorists or hate groups is normal and happens all the time, the only time people care is when they have a point. Which in this case many people think they do.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
136
That would only be true is you believe that the Right has not been doing their job of shining a light on the Left's ugly side. As far as I can tell, the right has done a very good job calling out the left one any and all problems in their party, it is just that the problems the left have, and they do have some, are quite minor in comparison.

Please understand that SPLC labeling them a hate group, or pretty much anyone labeling anyone anything else, does not prevent them from existing in the United States. The Ku Klux Klan still exists and openly holds meetings and marches in the US. The only time it becomes an issue is if they break some pretty specific and very narrowly defined laws, or if the US Government is doing it directly. Neither is the case here, so both sides are welcome to call each other anything they want all day long.
I know, free speech in America is kind of wild. You can say just about anything to, or about, just about anything and it is acceptable and even considered normal. The SPLC calling people terrorists or hate groups is normal and happens all the time, the only time people care is when they have a point. Which in this case many people think they do.
It's amazing how often people confuse freedom of speech with freedom from criticism for that speech.

Like I've said before true freedom of speech is both the ability to speak without government restraint (absent a very few things) AND the acceptance of consequences for your speech like people criticizing you, choosing not to associate with you, etc. If you don't accept the consequences for your speech then it's just demanding indulgence.

I think anyone who wants to should be able to sit on the corner and speak the virtues of Nazism to anyone who will listen. I also think they need to be prepared for people to say mean things to them and shun them for it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
I’m guessing IST, which is like +10 for me in EDT
Coming from a caste society might explain his belief that free speech means he gets to speak while those he considers inferior are required to listen quietly.
America doesn't work that way. Free speech means we all get to speak, including to freely rebut and criticize speech we disagree with.
Same thing with these LGBT issues in the school. The US Constitution guarantees all persons equal protection of the laws and thus equal access to the public spaces. This Moms for Liberty group wants to deny LGBT parents (and their allies) from equal access to the public schools.
It's a healthy debate but I'm confident that in the end the US system of political equality and freedom for all will win out.
If that makes someone from a country that doesn't even allow religious freedom think I'm a 'leftist,' because I support these core American principles of freedom, then so be it.
 
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