Ok - then what is your response to the fact that owning a gun makes everyone in your household more likely to die, all else being equal? What purpose does personal gun ownership serve in our society?
You haven’t behaved that way so it would be nice to see you start doing that.
Nope, my original point of you not responding to fact checks or requests for evidence.What are you talking about. Quote one post anywhere on this forum where I have been nasty and rude to another member. You might not agree with my opinions, that's fine, but I'm not wasting time debating with someone who loses their entire god damn mind screaming insults at me for my personal opinion.
So purchasing something for self defense that makes you more likely to die is inconsequential to you? 'I'm going to buy something for safety that makes me less safe' is an irrational position, no?Tons of valid purposes - for sport, hunting, and self defense. Just because guns are cool as shit is reason enough.
The fact that it makes everyone more likely to die is inconsequential to me. It doesn't justify stampeding over our rights to protect ourselves, feed our family, and have a fun hobby.
So purchasing something for self defense that makes you more likely to die is inconsequential to you? 'I'm going to buy something for safety that makes me less safe' is an irrational position, no?
As far as fun and sports go, to be clear you're saying tens of thousands of yearly deaths are an acceptable price to pay so you can have fun?
I didn't ask you to change your mind, I politely asked for you to explain your views.I'm not budging on this issue, and neither are you, so there really isn't much point in debating it.
I will never give up my right to own a firearm.
What are you talking about. Quote one post anywhere on this forum where I have been nasty and rude to another member. You might not agree with my opinions, that's fine, but I'm not wasting time debating with someone who loses their entire god damn mind screaming insults at me for my personal opinion.
I didn't ask you to change your mind, I politely asked for you to explain your views.
Can you explain why it is rational to purchase something for safety when owning it makes you and your family less safe?
Can you explain why you think tens of thousands of yearly deaths is an acceptable price to pay for a sport/hobby?
I appreciate it that you've expressed your opinions on this topic but I hope you realize that the hole you're digging yourself into is going to cave in on you at some point in time simply because you're defending a stance that is logically indefensible. Reality is calling. Ignore it at your own risk.
If you would like to make arguments for banning alcohol, motorcycles, or whatever else I'm open to those discussions so feel free.I could strawman this over tons of different things - alcohol, motorcycles, sky diving, mountain climbing.
Again, if your position is 'I know owning a gun makes me less safe and I believe tens of thousands of deaths are a price worth paying for my hobby' that's fine, you can just say that.Bottom line is yes, I think adults have what should be an inalienable right to protect ourselves, feed our families, and yes even have hobbies.
I'm your huckleberry.Nobody here is advocating for banning all guns.
It's not a purely logical opinion.
Religious beliefs are like that.As you've repeatedly shown in this thread, the conservative platform on this issue is purely without logic, so hey, look at me finding myself agreeing with you on that.
Have just started reading this thread and am up to this post. The problem with your reasoning here is that laws make it illegal to rob people, for example, do not affect or interfere with my right to defend myself against people who might try to rob me.It is funny how people don't seem to realize that 'criminals will ignore gun laws' applies to all laws.
'Criminals will ignore laws against murder, therefore we should not have laws against murder'.
Have just started reading this thread and am up to this post. The problem with your reasoning here is that laws make it illegal to rob people, for example, do not affect or interfere with my right to defend myself against people who might try to rob me.
Outlawing an effective means of self defense that is constitutionally protected, for those for who feel that makes good sense, will not accept being made second class citizens by laws criminals will break. Here, you, in your fear of violence by mentally ill or criminally minded people, want to take away the capacity to own their best estimate of what is and has been commonly available as the best in self defense.
You want to protect everybody from guns by making those who accept the risks of defending themselves personally give up that right. No thanks. Let’s do something that will help more and more people grow up with a love of life.
In a sea of sharks you care not if they are fed, only that the ones you can catch have their teeth removed.
Religious beliefs are like that.
Have just started reading this thread and am up to this post. The problem with your reasoning here is that laws make it illegal to rob people, for example, do not affect or interfere with my right to defend myself against people who might try to rob me.
Outlawing an effective means of self defense that is constitutionally protected, for those for who feel that makes good sense, will not accept being made second class citizens by laws criminals will break. Here, you, in your fear of violence by mentally ill or criminally minded people, want to take away the capacity to own their best estimate of what is and has been commonly available as the best in self defense.
You want to protect everybody from guns by making those who accept the risks of defending themselves personally give up that right. No thanks. Let’s do something that will help more and more people grow up with a love of life.
In a sea of sharks you care not if they are fed, only that the ones you can catch have their teeth removed.
We have a member who held the same position. They even replied to this topic. Here is a little history on why they changed their mind.I'm not budging on this issue, and neither are you, so there really isn't much point in debating it.
I will never give up my right to own a firearm.
Firearms are the great equalizer. It is the only effective form of self-defense for a 90lb woman to defend herself against a 280lb attacker. It puts her on exact equal footing in defending herself.
And, very ironically, historically stripping away second amendment rights really only negatively impacted middle class and lowers ability to defend themselves. Anyone wealthy enough can hire an armed bodyguard when they go out, live in gated communities, live in areas with low crime.
What anti 2a people really are doing is a detriment to the middle and lower class
Nah gun rights > kids livesA right shouldn't be a right when it negatively affects others rights.
I will go back and look but the argument I had hoped to respond to was the idea that just because criminals will break laws does not mean we shouldn't make them. I think that is patently obvious. What I object to is the argument that because criminals will not respect gun laws does not similarly equate to non related gun laws because of the fact that outlawing guns will affect the law abiding in ways they regard as negative and to the advantage of criminals. Nobody wants to defend themselves against a gun with a knife, or an AR with a sling shot.I don't think you understood the argument he was making. In order to understand someone's argument, you first have to look at the argument it was made in reply to.
I'm not sure what you aren't hearing here - if you live in a household with a firearm you are more likely to die than if you live in a house without one.Firearms are the great equalizer. It is the only effective form of self-defense for a 90lb woman to defend herself against a 280lb attacker. It puts her on exact equal footing in defending herself.
And, very ironically, historically stripping away second amendment rights really only negatively impacted middle class and lowers ability to defend themselves. Anyone wealthy enough can hire an armed bodyguard when they go out, live in gated communities, live in areas with low crime.
What anti 2a people really are doing is a detriment to the middle and lower class
I'm not sure what you aren't hearing here - if you live in a household with a firearm you are more likely to die than if you live in a house without one.