The surprise quiz next week

[Cogman]

How about this, given that the quiz has to be a surpize, what if the student just makes the assumption that the quiz is going to be on the current day of school that they are on. Yes the student may be wrong about the day the quiz is, but the quiz will not be a surpize for the student because he is already expecting it for that day. If that is the case, the quiz will never be a surprize if the teacher anounces it. The only way it can truely be a surprize is if the teacher does not announce it to the class, in that case, the quiz can be on any day without the students being surprized by it.

 

[JayMassive]

Originally posted by: sm8000
Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet because he would know that only a great fool would reach or what he is given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known that I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me....so you could have put the poison in your own cup, depending on your strength to save you, so clearly I cannot choose the wine in front of you. But you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you wouldhave put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

I'm glad somebody posted that...i really didn't want to have to type it out...

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: Cogman
The only way it can truely be a surprize is if the teacher does not announce it to the class, in that case, the quiz can be on any day without the students being surprized by it.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

This is what I was alluding to in my original post. The only way the quiz can truly be a surprise is if it is not announced. The paradox is partially caused by a linguistics issue.

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: JayMassive

Originally posted by: sm8000
Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet because he would know that only a great fool would reach or what he is given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known that I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me....so you could have put the poison in your own cup, depending on your strength to save you, so clearly I cannot choose the wine in front of you. But you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you wouldhave put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

I'm glad somebody posted that...i really didn't want to have to type it out...

Copy & paste

 

[Shaker8]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Teacher - "Students, there will be a surprise quiz next week."

Erudite Student, thinking to him/herself - "'Surprise' dictates I will not know the day of the quiz.

This is not a true paradox as the wikipeda judge to criminal one is.

By saying students there will be a surprise quiz next week you are all assuming that the quiz day will be the surprise, as the student did in the first sentence. That is incorrect.

As posted above the only way for it to be a surprise is if the teacher didn't tell the student about the quiz until he gave it to him al la "pop quiz".

The surprise is actually what is on the quiz.

This of course can't be applied to the wikipeda judge to criminal on because of the fact that no one could be surprised by the end result of a hanging.

EDIT: Holy cow don't know how those 4 blank post got there? Sorry new to these forums is there any way for me to remove them?

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: Shaker8
EDIT: Holy cow don't know how those 4 blank post got there? Sorry new to these forums is there any way for me to remove them?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=42&threadid=2012611&enterthread=y

 

[Shaker8]

Hey Thanks,

I was a little freaked out when i got done with my post and saw all of those empty post

 

[imported_Seer]

The problem lies in the teacher making the original claim. We can simplify the claim to the following analogy:

There are 5 boxes in front of me. One box as _______ in here (the surprise, or quiz). If you open the following boxes one at a time, you will NEVER know whether or not the box as the quiz in it, EVEN IF you've already opened the other four and there is only one left.

Now, if we look at it this way, we immediately recognize the original statement as an impossible claim by the teacher. She's lying about her abilities to surprise you, there is no paradox! What she can do:

-Have the quiz next week, and it will be a surprise 4/5 of the days

or

-Possibly have a quiz next week, and it will be a surprise 5/5 days.

 

[imported_Baloo]

She's announced already, there can be no surpise except as to the time and day. And it could be friday, but at what hour?

 

[nortexoid]

Here is the answer according to logic.

Suppose the (material) conditional statement 'If it is Thurs. and we have not had the surprise quiz, then we cannot have it on Friday' is true. This does not allow us to infer the consequent, viz., that we cannot have it on Friday. For, in order to infer that by an application of modus ponens, we need to assume the antecedent. But it's not Thursday yet, so we can't. The rest of the argument breaks down here, but we can make the whole argument explicit according to the following.

1. If it's Thurs and no surprise quiz, then it's not on Fri.
2. If it's not on Fri., then if it's Wed. and no surprise quiz, then it's not on Thurs.
3. If it's not on Thurs., then if it's Tues and ....

Each of the premises of the argument is a nested conditional statement, each of which requires, for the conclusion to follow, a supposition of the antecedent of the last conditional in the nesting of the preceding conditional (premise). (Sorry, that is extremely wordy.) It suffices then to show that there are no grounds to suppose the antecedent of (1) - i.e, the antencedent of the first conditional - in order to show that the conclusion does not hold simpliciter, that is, not on condition of all of the premises. Well, this is easy to show, since it is supposed by the statement of the surprise quiz paradox that it is not yet Thurs.