The Tax Impact Of Obamacare Becoming Clearer

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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Given the choice between letting a politician decide who lives and dies, and letting the free market decide who lives or dies, I'm actually going to go with the politicians.

Politicians don't exactly have a stellar track record on this, but every time the free market has been used to put value on human life....the results have been pretty awful for the humans involved.

Politicians have a terrible record of deciding who lives and dies. Why does the idea of a politician telling people they can or cant have a service sound better to you than letting the free market decide?
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
Do you have Canadian and English friends who have tried living on a low-paying job in the States to see how capitalist healthcare works for most of the people under it?


Politicians have a terrible record of deciding who lives and dies. Why does the idea of a politician telling people they can or cant have a service sound better to you than letting the free market decide?

Because I look at history, and see that the free market has a very low value on human life. Unions came into existence precisely because the free market, when putting a value on people, valued them very very low. Because I think about basic economics, realize very quickly that the people who are most in need of care are also the ones least able to produce anything, and thus will have even lower value then a base human - which is a pretty common, renewable resource?

Because both in theory and from personal experience, health care doesn't obey typical market mechanics? You buy health insurance, making an educated guess whether or not they'll screw you, and if you guess wrong....well, since you've got a pre-existing condition, competition is non-existent?
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
So, because she's attractive, she's not credible? There's a nice sexist comment.

He might be referring to this penchant many conservatives have of validating conservative women by their looks and fondness for traditional conservative mediums... like.....guns!

The patronizing tone isn't really unwarranted, as pundits like this tend to have a piss poor record of journalistic integrity or intellectual honesty (see Ann Coulter for an example) Least there's no Adam's Apple on this one right?

Good to know she was one of the "leading investigators" into that molehill, that blip of a scandal we know as Fast and Furious.
Probably going to pass, I own enough coasters already.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
My personal interests are usually at a pretty far remove from my discussion interests. And I am way too young to be anticipating hip replacement.

Still, it seems like the biggest losers with Obamacare are seniors. Higher cost of common medical devices, higher insuring costs, reduced benefits, arbitrary choice decisions made by a death panel. Even if someone is moderately well off and considering a Cadillac health plan, the government will impose such a tax burden (40% excise tax!) that it becomes unaffordable to many.

Looks like Obama, the nation's greatest advocate of on-demand abortions, is also shooting to be the guy that rushes granny and gramps off to the graveyard.

The impact on the medical device industry is likely to be severe. Americans For Tax Reform made the following conclusion -

Ah the death panels meme. Just when I thought maybe there was an inkling of an attempt on your part to have a serious discussion you go and repeat the Republican's Product Markleting Department talking points.

Now here is a reference to something of a more serious nature. Sorry, not cute conservatice media darlings here!

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1273025
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
expect a retrograde of medical services as well: About two-thirds of hospitals evaluated by Medicare under the Affordable Care Act face penalties over the number of senior patients readmitted within a month — even if they're sick.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
What's a dead federal agent, who knows how many innocent Mexicans, and who knows how many untraceable weapons in the hands of thugs among friends, eh?

He might be referring to this penchant many conservatives have of validating conservative women by their looks and fondness for traditional conservative mediums... like.....guns!

The patronizing tone isn't really unwarranted, as pundits like this tend to have a piss poor record of journalistic integrity or intellectual honesty (see Ann Coulter for an example) Least there's no Adam's Apple on this one right?

Good to know she was one of the "leading investigators" into that molehill, that blip of a scandal we know as Fast and Furious.
Probably going to pass, I own enough coasters already.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
But.... But..... But..... our taxes weren't supposed to go up.

Anyone who believed a brand new program that is going to cost huge loads of money to start and impliment and keep running, and wasn't going to raise what we pay in some way shape and form to the government is a fool.

I mean sure we could just go back to China for money, but they have not been our biggest fans recently.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Anyone who believed a brand new program that is going to cost huge loads of money to start and impliment and keep running, and wasn't going to raise what we pay in some way shape and form to the government is a fool.

I mean sure we could just go back to China for money, but they have not been our biggest fans recently.

So anyone who believed Obama is a fool.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
The patronizing tone isn't really unwarranted, as pundits like this tend to have a piss poor record of journalistic integrity or intellectual honesty (see Ann Coulter for an example)

I thoroughly enjoy Ann Coulter's writing! Like other conservative intellects, she is quick to note the absurdity of liberal wishful thinking.

Ann Coulter

Ann Coulter is the author of eight New York Times bestsellers —

Demonic: How the Liberal is Endangering America (June 2011);

Guilty: Liberal Victims and Their Assault on America (January 2009);

If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd Be Republicans (October, 2007);

Godless: The Church of Liberalism (June 2006) (debuted at number one on The New York Times Best Seller list);

How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)(October, 2004);

Treason: Liberal Treachery From the Cold War to the War on Terrorism (June 2003) (13 weeks on the NYT Best Seller list);

Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right (June 2002) (#1 on The New York Times non-fiction best seller list); and

High Crimes and Misdemeanors:The Case Against Bill Clinton (August 1998).

Coulter is the legal correspondent for Human Events and writes a popular syndicated column for Universal Press Syndicate.

She is a frequent guest on many TV shows, including The Today Show, Good Morning America, The Early Show, The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Hannity, The O'Reilly Factor, The Glen Beck Show, HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, and has been profiled in numerous publications, including TV Guide, the Guardian (UK), the New York Observer, National Journal, Harper's Bazaar, and Elle magazine. She was the April 25, 2005 cover story of Time magazine.

In 2001, Coulter was named one of the top 100 Public Intellectuals by federal judge Richard Posner.

A Connecticut native, Coulter graduated with honors from Cornell University School of Arts & Sciences, and received her J.D. from University of Michigan Law School, where she was an editor of The Michigan Law Review.

Coulter clerked for the Honorable Pasco Bowman II of the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit and was an attorney in the Department of Justice Honors Program for outstanding law school graduates.

After practicing law in private practice in New York City, Coulter worked for the Senate Judiciary Committee, where she handled crime and immigration issues for Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan. From there, she became a litigator with the Center For Individual Rights in Washington, DC, a public interest law firm dedicated to the defense of individual rights with particular emphasis on freedom of speech, civil rights, and the free exercise of religion.

She has quite a few accomplishments as well as an acerbic wit.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Because I look at history, and see that the free market has a very low value on human life.

There is no human institution that has less regard for human life than government.

And socialist governments are by far the worst of the mass killers.

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
What's a dead federal agent, who knows how many innocent Mexicans, and who knows how many untraceable weapons in the hands of thugs among friends, eh?


A better question would be, why are a dead Federal agent and unnamed innocent Mexicans more noteworthy, more valuable, than thousands of dead US soldiers and Marines that we sent downrange over bullshit and lies?

Funny to see the focus on gun control get flipped 180, especially by the pro-gun side.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
"Gun control means keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot!"
"If guns kills people, do pencils misspell words?"


...and now that same side is trying to attribute a gun fatality by association!


Scandal hunger makes people crazy. Case in point, the GOP and it's sockpuppet gallery for the last 3.5 years.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Actually, I really would... I am a healthy, good looking, FT employed therapist with deep radio voice who owns his own house outright, and am well hung. The only problem I'd have is getting permission from my wife... I don't play some grandiose persona on the Interwebz, I have an in real life that is going along rather swimmingly, thanks

Everyone is a stallion on the intertubes...
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
I thoroughly enjoy Ann Coulter's writing! Like other conservative intellects, she is quick to note the absurdity of liberal wishful thinking.


No accounting for taste I suppose. I think those other "conservative intellects" would take offense to that, as in her quickness to expose what she hates she employs a lot of falsehoods, blatant lies, convenient omissions, obfuscation and specious reasoning that all do a pretty good job of undercutting her credibility. Her hateful demeanor and contempt for so much of this county helps in this regard too.

I think she'd do so much better if she had the pine tree extracted from her ass. I hear they can shave down those apples too...



She has quite a few accomplishments as well as an acerbic wit.

The Rich Posner one made me really laugh. This Richard Posner? http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...-posner-the-gop-has-made-me-less-conservative

That lady has moved a lot of stupid since 2001, I'm guessing he's still facepalming and hoping everyone forgets the whole thing. lol
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
Ouch, that was a liberal slapdown that even Ann Coulter would appreciate. She had already covered it in
http://www.amazon.com/Slander-Libera...f=cm_lmf_tit_3


Stop embarrassing yourself. If that was a "slapdown" then you have been beaten, robbed, stripped and forcibly corn-holed dozens of times on this forum.

Only thing getting slapped around here is jibberjabber's pud. Blondes cranking out steamers must be his joint. Ew.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
No accounting for taste I suppose. I think those other "conservative intellects" would take offense to that, as in her quickness to expose what she hates she employs a lot of falsehoods, blatant lies, convenient omissions, obfuscation and specious reasoning that all do a pretty good job of undercutting her credibility. Her hateful demeanor and contempt for so much of this county helps in this regard too.

I think she'd do so much better if she had the pine tree extracted from her ass. I hear they can shave down those apples too...



The Rich Posner one made me really laugh. This Richard Posner? http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...-posner-the-gop-has-made-me-less-conservative

That lady has moved a lot of stupid since 2001, I'm guessing he's still facepalming and hoping everyone forgets the whole thing. lol

Maybe since he put Coulter in his Top 100 list in 2001, he thinks things have downhill since?

 
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PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Stop embarrassing yourself. If that was a "slapdown" then you have been beaten, robbed, stripped and forcibly corn-holed dozens of times on this forum.

Only thing getting slapped around here is jibberjabber's pud. Blondes cranking out steamers must be his joint. Ew.

 

tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
Politicians have a terrible record of deciding who lives and dies. Why does the idea of a politician telling people they can or cant have a service sound better to you than letting the free market decide?

Obviously the lesser of two evils, not sure how you think some corporation would be better then a politician? the free market has done a lot to shape our society today however there are certain areas, like health care, defense, police, teachers where I do not think they belong...
 
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