The Three Easy Steps to Avoid Poverty

[Paratus]

So a study done by the bookings institute says that of US citizens who follow this three step sequence about 3/4 will find themselves in the middle class as defined by 300% of the poverty level. Only 2% will be below the poverty level.

The three step sequence is:

• Graduate from High School
• Don't have kids before your 21 and married (edit didn't have this quite right)
• Get a full time job

This list is basically a no brainer, but it plays nice to the, "lift yourself up by your bootstraps" and "you get what you deserve" crowds. (I'm going to leave the difficulty in getting a full-time job for later)

What's interesting is when you break out the outcomes by race, doing the right things does not pay off the same depending on your race:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...k_families_who_do_everything_right_still.html

African Americans don't receive the same benefit as whites for doing the right things.

This also shows up in how well the respective populations do if they screw up one of the sequences.

Again African Americans have worse outcomes than whites.

Remember these are people who are doing the right things to better themselves.

Discrimination still exists in this country, it's better, but here's another indication it still exists. Equal effort should lead to roughly equal outcomes, statistically speaking. Here it doesn't always.

We are all running the same race but some Americans are being forced to run with a handicap. If you believe the American ideal of equality that's wrong.

 

[disappoint]

Can you say oversimplification batman?

 

[Indus]

That is bullshit.. I have all of these 3 yet it's been hard to get a full time well paying job since 2008. I've had to work in Singapore as they offered better pay and benefits than America.

 

[HomerJS]

Can you say oversimplification batman?

Not quite as simple as "If you just work hard anyone can succeed in America"

 

[disappoint]

Not quite as simple as "If you just work hard anyone can succeed in America"

Or the similar but less often heard: "If you just work hard you're a male porn star."

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Not quite as simple as "If you just work hard anyone can succeed in America"

The American dream died before you or, the OP were born.

 

[Paratus]

Can you say oversimplification batman?

That is bullshit.. I have all of these 3 yet it's been hard to get a full time well paying job since 2008. I've had to work in Singapore as they offered better pay and benefits than America.

I know it is. It's like saying if you want a 7 figure salary just work hard and be CEO.

It's just that most discrimination is dismissed as playing the victim card by people to lazy to help themselves.

Well here are minorities doing the right thing even by conservative standards to help themselves and still not getting ahead in the same percentages as the majority.

I can't wait to hear the excuses.

 

[pcgeek11]

Life is not fair and even. Get used to it.

There are way more variables than just those three.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That is bullshit.. I have all of these 3 yet it's been hard to get a full time well paying job since 2008. I've had to work in Singapore as they offered better pay and benefits than America.

Define "well paying". I have a feeling it's in excess of 300% of the federal poverty line if you had to move to Singapore to meet your standards.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

That is bullshit.. I have all of these 3 yet it's been hard to get a full time well paying job since 2008. I've had to work in Singapore as they offered better pay and benefits than America.

What kind of work are you doing that a company in Singapore (A nation where there a view toward Westerners as being lazy and whiny by default though that is true for most of Asia) would hire you versus a US company here in the states?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Life is not fair and even. Get used to it.

There are way more variables than just those three.

Their maybe a few more however those listed are like the foundational choices for the "not fucking yourself over from the start" set of choices.

 

[halik]

Remember these are people who are doing the right things to better themselves.

Discrimination still exists in this country, it's better, but here's another indication it still exists. Equal effort should lead to roughly equal outcomes, statistically speaking. Here it doesn't always.

We are all running the same race but some Americans are being forced to run with a handicap. If you believe the American ideal of equality that's wrong.

Ceteris Paribus, that is. Which isn't the case in real life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap_in_the_United_States

I would bet large amount of money if you create the same distributions in o/p for Asians, they'd dominate the other two cohorts.

 

[Linux23]

Life is not fair and even. Get used to it.

There are way more variables than just those three.

says the person who has no handicaps in life.

 

[Atreus21]

So a study done by the bookings institute says that of US citizens who follow this three step sequence about 3/4 will find themselves in the middle class as defined by 300% of the poverty level. Only 2% will be below the poverty level.

The three step sequence is:

• Graduate from High School
• Don't have kids before your twenties
• Get a full time job

This list is basically a no brainer, but it plays nice to the, "lift yourself up by your bootstraps" and "you get what you deserve" crowds. (I'm going to leave the difficulty in getting a full-time job for later)

What's interesting is when you break out the outcomes by race, doing the right things does not pay off the same depending on your race:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...k_families_who_do_everything_right_still.html

African Americans don't receive the same benefit as whites for doing the right things.

This also shows up in how well the respective populations do if they screw up one of the sequences.

Again African Americans have worse outcomes than whites.

Remember these are people who are doing the right things to better themselves.

Discrimination still exists in this country, it's better, but here's another indication it still exists. Equal effort should lead to roughly equal outcomes, statistically speaking. Here it doesn't always.

We are all running the same race but some Americans are being forced to run with a handicap. If you believe the American ideal of equality that's wrong.

A 4th element is getting and staying married. That's the best anti-poverty vehicle out there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/can-marriage-cure-poverty.html?_r=0

 

[Paratus]

Life is not fair and even. Get used to it.

There are way more variables than just those three.

Yes there are which is why they studied more than single individuals.

Also when life isn't fair to an entire race we would generally call that systematic discrimination.

Maybe the differences could be lessened so lifting yourself up by your bootstraps works similarly well for all Americans. :hmm:

 

[fskimospy]

Yes there are which is why they studied more than single individuals.

Also when life isn't fair to an entire race we would generally call that systematic discrimination.

Maybe the differences could be lessened so lifting yourself up by your bootstraps works similarly well for all Americans. :hmm:

Also important to note that society is a dynamic system. If everyone did those things we would have an economic realignment that changed the game.

It doesn't mean doing those things is useless, but I imagine it would have less of an impact than people think.

 

[Paratus]

A 4th element is getting and staying married. That's the best anti-poverty vehicle out there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/can-marriage-cure-poverty.html?_r=0

It can help. Glad you agree that marriage has more benefits to individuals and society than just child rearing. :thumbsup:

 

[Atreus21]

It can help. Glad you agree that marriage has more benefits to individuals and society than just child rearing. :thumbsup:

Loyalty to a partnership for mutual help, the preservation of chastity, and the transmission of life (to quote C.S. Lewis). Those are the benefits (faithful) marriage imparts.

 

[Paratus]

Also important to note that society is a dynamic system. If everyone did those things we would have an economic realignment that changed the game.

It doesn't mean doing those things is useless, but I imagine it would have less of an impact than people think.

I agree. I'm aware of the fallacy of assuming if one person can do it, than anyone can do it and if anyone can do it everyone can do it.

As you said if everyone was doing it the system would change.


I do find this a strong rebuttal to the cries of "if only you did the right things you wouldn't be poor, stop blaming racism!"

Well here's data that shows you can do the right things and still don't have a good of chance at the same outcome because of your race.
That shouldn't be the case IMO.

 

[Genx87]

I'm interested in seeing how the war on drugs plays a part in all of this. Without the numbers I will assume the WoD has put the black community at a severe disadvantage when it comes to job seeking due to felony convictions over consuming or distributing a product the market demands.

 

[JockoJohnson]

I agree. I'm aware of the fallacy of assuming if one person can do it, than anyone can do it and if anyone can do it everyone can do it.

As you said if everyone was doing it the system would change.


I do find this a strong rebuttal to the cries of "if only you did the right things you wouldn't be poor, stop blaming racism!"

Well here's data that shows you can do the right things and still don't have a good of chance at the same outcome because of your race.
That shouldn't be the case IMO.

So is your conclusion that it must be racism? Any other factors that may contribute as to why people can't succeed?

 

[Exterous]

It's just that most discrimination is dismissed as playing the victim card by people to lazy to help themselves.

Well, this really doesn't dispel that as I don't see a 'works hard' or 'isn't lazy' metric on your chart. Having a full time job or a high school diploma does not directly correlate with hard work

Well here are minorities doing the right thing even by conservative standards to help themselves and still not getting ahead in the same percentages as the majority.

I can't wait to hear the excuses.

I find it extremely unfortunate that they did not include asians or do an Socio Economic measurement. I think its very odd that Asians and Latinos are frequently left out of studies like this or lumped into another ethnic group. This seems extremely shortsided or narrative creating to me. It is also my suspicion that groups in very poor areas that 'do the right thing' are more likely to fail than people not in poor areas. It would be clarifying to see a whites and blacks comparison by geographic region and socio economic strata. My suspicion is that this won't be nearly as click baity though

 

[Paratus]

So is your conclusion that it must be racism? Any other factors that may contribute as to why people can't succeed?

I'm open, what do you have?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Race and/or sex is not a hindrance in being hired and/or successful at the company where I work. Minorities and women are in senior executive positions.

 

[Paratus]

Race and/or sex is not a hindrance in being hired and/or successful at the company where I work. Minorities and women are in senior executive positions.

It's not in my directorate at work either...

Unfortunately our two experiences are just anecdotes.