The top 1%.. except Bernie

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Nov 25, 2013
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If Bernie Sanders so strongly believe the top 1% should share more of their income with the bottom 99%, why isn't he setting an example and already doing it himself? He made more than a million dollars last year (and the year before) putting him firmly in the top 1%, yet paid less than 30% in net taxes.

My point is, if he believes the top 1% should give more of their income away, let's say up to 70%, why doesn't he than already voluntarily donate 40% of his income (70% minus the 30% he already pays in taxes) to charities that help those less fortunate with scholarships, healthcare and so on? There are enough organisations out there who do this very effectively and rely on donations.

It's not because Sanders looks like poverty that he actually is poor. He's richer than 99% of all Americans and even owns 3 houses. The thing is why does nobody hold him accountable for the fact that he doesn't already practice what he preaches? If he doesn't wanna pay higher taxes, why does he expect anybody else in the top 1% would wanna do that?

I know alot of lefties here will probably hate on me for saying that, but doesn't it make sense that if you preach something, you should at least already be practicing it yourself?

Boring and predictable. Quelle surprise.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
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Have you lived in Europe? One example, in order to see an expert doctor, you literally have to make an appointment months in advance so alot of people abuse the "emergency room" service. I remember people from Holland going to Belgium and vice versa thinking they would be helped faster. Turned out both had the same waiting line problem.

Medicaire for all is more like Mediocry for all in Europe.

Do you really think there aren't many poor people in Europe? Do you really think everybody is getting decent healthcare in Europe?

Again, regulating healthcare and education entities stricter would be alot better than thinking government will do a magical job.
When is the last time you tried to make an appointment with a specialist in America? Just a heads up, most of them are months out. Once again you fell for a conservative talking point. I hate to break the news to you, but you are not an independent. You are a conservative that is disillusioned with Republicans.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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I agree but than why do you think it's "fair" that those making good money should pay higher taxes? Have I stolen money from you? No I didn't.

I agree that the very, very rich (only a handful of families) own money they even didn't have to work for, but looking at Europe, in practice socialism will result in middle class paying higher taxes.

Have you even compared how much middle class in Germany, the Netherland etc pay in comparison to middle class in the US?

Yes, the biggest difference is that folks get a hell of a lot more back in public services in western Europe for their taxes than they do in the US.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Have you lived in Europe? One example, in order to see an expert doctor, you literally have to make an appointment months in advance so alot of people abuse the "emergency room" service. I remember people from Holland going to Belgium and vice versa thinking they would be helped faster. Turned out both had the same waiting line problem.

Medicaire for all is more like Mediocry for all in Europe.

Do you really think there aren't many poor people in Europe? Do you really think everybody is getting decent healthcare in Europe?

Again, regulating healthcare and education entities stricter would be alot better than thinking government will do a magical job.

Just another propaganda parrot doing a terrible job of spreading lies and disinformation.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Regressive socialism requires that most citizens, if not all, pay at least HALF (or close to) their incomes.

You are either too stupid or too you young to know how this works, homey.....

First they propose that 70% over $10M is taxed, when they figure out its nowhere near enough they lower to 70% over $1M, then $500K, then $100K, $50K and finally they realize everybody needs to bend over for "free" shit. Because you know, nothing is EVER free so we're all all gonna get fucked.

Did I fail to mention we are already 23 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt and rising? Thats before any risky democratic socialist schemes.

#fuckofftroll
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
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Regressive socialism requires that most citizens, if not all, pay at least HALF (or close to) their incomes.

You are either too stupid or too you young to know how this works, homey.....

First they propose that 70% over $10M is taxed, when they figure out its nowhere near enough they lower to 70% over $1M, then $500K, then $100K, $50K and finally they realize everybody needs to bend over for "free" shit. Because you know, nothing is EVER free so we're all all gonna get fucked.

Did I fail to mention we are already 23 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt and rising? Thats before any risky democratic socialist schemes.
First, you pile on the straw, then you pretend to care about something you don't actually care about.

The only time Republicans care about govt free stuff is when they're afraid that other people are getting it, and not just them.
The only time Republicans care about the deficit is when it's proposed that all taxpayers benefit from govt spending, rather than just a few with the 'right' political connections.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
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Given his posting history I can only surmise that Felix gets off and being called an idiot and a troll. Don’t give him the sexual gratification.

No, I think his feelings get hurt as he keeps down voting me when I drop one of those on a post of his.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,941
767
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He is already donating 70% of his income over $10 million.

Is this true? If so, then Bernie wins this thread and a ton of respect from me.

I am an advocate that most people should donate to charity. Even though there is no law enforcing this, I still donate to charity.

I think if I truly believe people should do something, then I should already be doing it even if others don't.
 
Reactions: Vic

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Is this true? If so, then Bernie wins this thread and a ton of respect from me.

I am an advocate that most people should donate to charity. Even though there is no law enforcing this, I still donate to charity.

I think if I truly believe people should do something, then I should already be doing it even if others don't.

It's a joke, son. Bernie never made $10M in a single year. 70% of nothing is nothing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
The argument of ‘you want the country to do X collectively, therefore you must do X individually’ will never get any less dumb.

Imagine if someone said ‘you want the US to go to the moon? Then start funding your own space program while you’re waiting for Congress to pass a law.’ People would obviously think that argument was stupid, yet that’s exactly what the OP is arguing for taxes.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
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The argument of ‘you want the country to do X collectively, therefore you must do X individually’ will never get any less dumb.

Imagine if someone said ‘you want the US to go to the moon? Then start funding your own space program while you’re waiting for Congress to pass a law.’ People would obviously think that argument was stupid, yet that’s exactly what the OP is arguing for taxes.

Is it stupid though? I mean the border wall is almost fully funded via donations from real Americans.

Socialized programs like Medicare are doing really well now since true American capitalists have stopped using the program.

We have also seen a record number of conservative businesses (businesses ran or owned by Republicans) out right stop buying from foreign entities in order to reduce the trade deficit.

All of that and more is happening because it's a well known fact that Republicans/and the right are not hypocrites and they live by the rules they hold everyone else to.




/s
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
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Have you lived in Europe? One example, in order to see an expert doctor, you literally have to make an appointment months in advance so alot of people abuse the "emergency room" service. I remember people from Holland going to Belgium and vice versa thinking they would be helped faster. Turned out both had the same waiting line problem.

Medicaire for all is more like Mediocry for all in Europe.

Do you really think there aren't many poor people in Europe? Do you really think everybody is getting decent healthcare in Europe?

Again, regulating healthcare and education entities stricter would be alot better than thinking government will do a magical job.

Firstly, that - the waiting list issue - varies greatly between different European countries. Mostly depending on just how much money they put into the system.

But you do, in the end, either have to ration by wealth or by a waiting-list. Without infinite resources there's going to be some form of rationing.

Waiting lists can, and are, modified by perceived level of need or urgency of care.

The fact is, I would suggest, that there's a greater chance of getting a degree of consensus about what constitutes 'need' when it comes to health-care than for most other things. Most people do accept that trauma care for someone who's just been hit by a truck is a greater priority than tatoo-removal.

So health care seems a special case when it comes to state involvement.

And of course there are still dilemmas, arguments over the efficacy of a newly-developed drug vs the extreme cost. And state-funded health services do end up having to do calculations about 'quality of life years'. Still seems to be better than just asking how much money the patient has, though.

Also, I don't know from first-hand experience, but some Americans have told me they _still_ have to deal with waiting, because every time they need something done they have to first go through a process of disputing it with their health insurer, who will drag their feet and try to find reasons not to pay for it.

And in calling for 'regulation' you are already departing strongly from the conservative script (which calls such regulation 'red tape', and relentlessly pushes for it to be removed).

You are also failing to notice the poor track record of governments in trying to 'regulate' things like this, and provide services through contracts drawn up between their (not very-well-paid) lawyers and the (much better-paid) lawyers of the private sector.

The US system just doesn't appear to work all that well. And I don't think it's _solely_ about health-care and insurance companies being predatory. It's also just quite inefficient because there's so much duplication of effort and unavoidably such high admin costs, doing all the work associated with having a 'market'. "Regulation" could make that inefficiency worse rather than better.

I do accept there's an argument that high US health care costs might help fund more drug research than would otherwise happen. Still seems an inefficient way to achieve that end, given how much gets eaten up with what are effectively administration costs.

Never mind the main point of this linked article, the bar-chart (which I can't figure out how to embed here) says quite a lot. US expenditure double everyone else's, with worse results than any of them.

UK NHS gets results between the US and everyone else, but on the "upside" spends the square-root of ah heck-all.

That probably reflects the politics of getting funding for a fully state-run-and-funded system in a mostly capitalist country. I do wonder if it might get even more challenging in a society that is badly divided over racial politics. I think it's harder to get something like that to work if a country doesn't feel a strong sense of common identity. So I don't know what model would be best for the US to aim at, but it seems quite clear the current system isn't terribly efficient.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...medicare-for-all-plan-pus-democrats-in-a-bind
 
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Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
that totally depends on what statistic you are referring to.

And what statistic are you referring to? Infant mortality or maternal mortality maybe? Yeah, we lead the EU in those...and last infant mortality rate I saw placed us around #32 in the world, right behind Cuba.

So, pray tell, what statistic are you going to dazzle us with to prove the U.S. health care system is the envy of the world....maybe third world, but no first world industrialized nation.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Imagine if all the money from employers & employees put into the system were simply redefined as taxes instead of premiums. Imagine that the stress of being laid off wasn't complicated by the need to pay health insurance premiums when you can least afford to do so. Imagine getting a new job where you didn't have to wait to be eligible for coverage. Imagine not getting screwed by inadvertently choosing an out of network provider. Imagine how much better it could be for us all if we made a commitment to take care of each other instead of just ourselves.

Horrifying, ain't it?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
But we need more liberal tears to soften the mortar.

I think Trumps 2020 win should do the trick.
Trump is being primaried by a respectable Republican. I think you will be able to soften the mortar with the Republican babies you're about to eat and shit. You guys are going to be profoundly mentally challenged making up your minds if you want a narcissistic psychopath or not. Don't weep. You're going to get a chance at redemption. See, God loves you.
 
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