The Trump Tariffs thread

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,478
9,326
136
You give Trump way too much benefit of the doubt when you treat this as a trade war rather than a massive socialized tax. His explanations are stupid because they're some bullshit he makes up to pretend this isn't just a tax hike on all of us.

Well, it's both, surely? It's a tax on Americans, but Trump is also extremely stupid, so in his head it's about giving 'payback' to nefarious foreigners. Hence the way it's particularly vicious towards the world's poorest countries - that end up with highest tariff rates because of the insane formula they've used combined with the fact that countries like Cambodia or Sri Lanka are too poor to buy anything much that the US produces (but maybe export a few specific minerals or crops that the US can't produce domestically).
 
Last edited:

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,715
9,523
136
I read an interesting piece this morning that claims Trumps tariffs aren't about money or the economy. Rather they are a method of control. Basically any college or country or big business that caves to Trump will always be controlled by him because on a whim he can threaten them and they will alter their behavior to suit him. Universities will cave and businesses will cave and end any DEI programs he doesn't like etc. Any countries that cave under the economic pressure are screwed the same way.

Makes sense to me, and when he has control of everything he will manipulate things thus altering the landscape of the country. We are fucked, too bad the Republicans are fucking cowards.
IF democracy holds (fire away) Republicans can be voted out of office.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,806
3,592
136
Is this just a giant trump tariff tax on everyone and everything so the rich don't have to pay taxes?

This is what happens when a political party doesn't hold their own party accountable and doesn't tax their rich enough so they accumulate enough wealth to purchase a government only friendly to the wealthy.
That's a theory, but I see a couple flaws. First, it assumes Trump is thinking strategically ("4D chess!") and that's a fairly big assumption. More likely is that he has an idiotic view of global trade, and truly believes tariffs are a solution. Secondly, although the GOP is having a challenging time trying to figure out their precise tax legislation, I don't believe anyone actually thinks that the (D) minority in Congress could actually block a reconciliation bill. (By definition, the minority can't. They'd need to peel off a few (R) votes in the House.)

If that's the case, Trump doesn't need to blow up the global economy to get his preferred tax cuts for the rich. They already had one insane idea called the "current policy baseline" where they argue that extending the 2017 tax regime wouldn't actually cost anything. Or assuming they can get the debt limit increased by many T$, they could do what they've always done which is blow up the federal debt at a breakneck pace.

Sure, MAGA is pretty dumb so they may miss this stealth middle class tax increase for what it is. But forcing a painful global recession and making the U.S. a near economic pariah seems to be a pretty clumsy way to achieve GOP fiscal policy.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,389
9,225
136
Lutnick: "Let Donald Trump run the global economy. He's knows what he's doing. He's been talking about it for 35 years. You gotta trust Donald Trump in the White House ... it's broken. Let him fix it ... Let Donald Trump fix the American economy."

Donald Trump has declared bankruptcy six fucking times! What is this clown smoking. It's a cult!

Lutnick's willing to risk that his BILLION$ will see him through it OK. What a guy!

Reporter: - "The market is tanking"

Trump: - "Things are going very well. Gotta go now. I got to play in a golf tournament"

Just like every other time in our history a Republican gets elected and totally destroys a good economy left by the Democratic President

Not all businesses are suffering. The Joe Biden ‘miss me yet’ stickers are flying off the shelves.

The man is delusional and our media is a joke for not calling him on it to his face.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,856
3,326
136
That's a theory, but I see a couple flaws. First, it assumes Trump is thinking strategically ("4D chess!") and that's a fairly big assumption. More likely is that he has an idiotic view of global trade, and truly believes tariffs are a solution. Secondly, although the GOP is having a challenging time trying to figure out their precise tax legislation, I don't believe anyone actually thinks that the (D) minority in Congress could actually block a reconciliation bill. (By definition, the minority can't. They'd need to peel off a few (R) votes in the House.)

If that's the case, Trump doesn't need to blow up the global economy to get his preferred tax cuts for the rich. They already had one insane idea called the "current policy baseline" where they argue that extending the 2017 tax regime wouldn't actually cost anything. Or assuming they can get the debt limit increased by many T$, they could do what they've always done which is blow up the federal debt at a breakneck pace.

Sure, MAGA is pretty dumb so they may miss this stealth middle class tax increase for what it is. But forcing a painful global recession and making the U.S. a near economic pariah seems to be a pretty clumsy way to achieve GOP fiscal policy.
I don't think this is all trump's ideas though. It's been malicious chaos since even before he took office. It honestly feels like they are destroying the US from the inside. None of this is good for the country and his policies seem to only benefit the few. God I hate this timeline.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
60,845
16,144
136
My 1997 Japanese sedan, which I seldom drive (1000mi/year ballpark, 36k total) had check engine light come on in December. Brought to a recommended Japanese car specialty shop who quoted me almost $7000 to fix the laundry list of malfunctioning stuff. I could have sold it to the state for $1200 and shopped for another car, I have the money, but I didn't have an idea of what I wanted in a replacement car, so I had them do the work.
Next time it comes on, try borrowing a code reader from AutoZone or the like, and looking up the trouble codes yourself. Check engine light, unless flashing, is generally some sort of emissions issue. But for $7k, hopefully they replaced so many things that it will be years before you see another one.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,389
9,225
136
2.7 trillon evaporated from today's stock market plunge. the largest decline since Trump last crashed the market in March 2020.

Republicans cheering after Trump imposed the largest tax hike in US history.

Trump: - "We have six or seven trillion dollars coming into our country, and we’ve never seen anything like it"

This POS can't speak without lying

Our total imports never exceeded $3.5 trillion and 25% tariff of that is less than $900 billion
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,111
9,861
136
Assuming this doesn’t get reversed or to toned down at all I can promise you they will resort to price controls by summertime.

While you're not far off.. I think:

Next summer, not this summer.

He's got a lot of good will built into the MAGA base.. and they will screw the billionaires before they screw him or the base!
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,987
8,690
136
Driving down the prices of stock and US real estate is a wet dream for people who already have all of the money.

I'm not sure why people think Trump and the GOP don't know exactly what they're doing.

None of them care about the middle or working class. They want to buy up the country to do with what they want. This is how you do that.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,478
9,326
136
From

Speaking to reporters on Thursday amid tumbling US stock markets and $2tn wiped off Wall Street after his tariffs reveal on Wednesday, Trump said:

"I think it’s going very well. It was an operation like when a patient gets operated on and it’s a big thing. I said this would be exactly the way it is … We’ve never seen anything like it. The markets are going to boom. The stock is going to boom. The country is going to boom."

He went on to add:

"The rest of the world wants to see is there is any way they can make a deal. They’ve taken advantage of us for many years … I think it’s going to be unbelievable …"


I think he left out the word "go". As in "The country is going to go boom!"
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,806
3,592
136
I don't think this is all trump's ideas though. It's been malicious chaos since even before he took office. It honestly feels like they are destroying the US from the inside. None of this is good for the country and his policies seem to only benefit the few. God I hate this timeline.
Well yeah he's pretty dumb overall, so he listens to some trusted advisers. Unfortunately the sycophants in his inner circle are all dumb asses as well.

I haven't kept close tabs, but I couldn't name a qualified professional in his orbit these days.

I don't know what it will look like, but at some point business leaders will (should?) revolt against all this destruction. They assumed everything would be like 2017-2019, so tech bros in particular were happy to kiss the ring. But blowing up the global economy and the stock markets will piss off more important people than it pleases.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,189
9,640
136
Yup





This is kind-of interesting



So it's the curse (and simultaneous benefit) of having your currency as the global reserve, that is the core of the issue? Usually that's painted as a massive benefit the US has, it's why Truss couldn't get away with her unfunded tax cuts here, while the US, apparently, might have. Trump seems to see it as a problem to be 'solved' by a means that causes worse problems than you started with.
This is like Macroeconomics 101 stuff that
Pretty sure we are headed for stagflation by Q3.
So we should expect low interest rates and “free capital” for billionaires to play with again?
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,530
1,089
126
This is like Macroeconomics 101 stuff that

So we should expect low interest rates and “free capital” for billionaires to play with again?
The oligarchy is going to further enrich itself and then use that money to buy up everything. Once it has everything it will replace human labor.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
4,447
6,689
136
There it is



After multiple White House aides insisted that the new tariffs were not a negotiation, Trump said he would be open to negotiating with other countries about the duties.

Trump said he would be open to tariff talks with other counties if they offer something phenomenal, Reuters reported him saying on Air Force One.

Top trade aide Peter Navarro told CNBC less than an hour earlier that the sweeping tariffs are “not a negotiation.””
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,000
53,241
136
This is like Macroeconomics 101 stuff that

So we should expect low interest rates and “free capital” for billionaires to play with again?
Well stagflation would imply low/no growth and high inflation so low interest rates would just make that worse.

The primary issue here is that in essence trade wars like this are in effect a significant net productivity decline for the economy. When productivity goes down there isn’t a lot you can do about it. Life will get worse.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,856
3,326
136
Well yeah he's pretty dumb overall, so he listens to some trusted advisers. Unfortunately the sycophants in his inner circle are all dumb asses as well.

I haven't kept close tabs, but I couldn't name a qualified professional in his orbit these days.

I don't know what it will look like, but at some point business leaders will (should?) revolt against all this destruction. They assumed everything would be like 2017-2019, so tech bros in particular were happy to kiss the ring. But blowing up the global economy and the stock markets will piss off more important people than it pleases.
I don't have much hope these days but your last paragraph is one of two things that give me a sliver of hope. We also need to try and turn his base on him and his enablers. That is going to be hard considering the billionaires control all of the media his base views and hears.
 
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