The Trump Tariffs thread

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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,416
6,441
136
To be honest, these 100 plus countries doesn't matter. There are only really three trading blocs worth talking about; the EU, China and India. The rest is rounding errors mostly.

India seems to be folding to the Trump pressure. The EU and China won't fold so easily.

But its the uncertainty in the economic rules that governs everything now. No investments worth of any size will now be approved. Too much chaos. And as the video posted above by @biostud, the disparity in the prices and capability between Chinese manufacturers and American ones is vast. 800% pricing differential. Trump would have to put on 800% tariffs on China to get American manufacturers a boost. Otherwise he is just tinkering on the edge.

In reality he is trying to raise revenue to pay for his tax cuts for the rich folk. A former Australian Prime Minister;
Yeah, we have a high sales tax on 25%, but that is on all goods and services, whether it is produced in US, EU or Denmark so it doesn't discriminate. And when there is uncertainties about the tariffs it will take very long time if ever before moving production to the US, because who will invest in US production? What about tariffs on raw materials and sub contractors.

As given as an example in this video, if Apple where to move its iPhone production to the US, then TSMC, Samsung, Qualcomm, Sharp would also need to move production to the US, while it would still be cheaper to keep the production for the rest of the world where it is now. Who will pay those extra costs? The same problem for every product produced more advanced than agriculture and raw materials. And another problem also mentioned in this video, is that for decades US has been where you wanted to to if you were a smart entrepreneur or student wanting to start a business, with the targeted deportations and imprisoning....not so much.

 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,868
9,582
136
It won't be a recession, it will be the greatest depression ever! No one has seen a depression like the one coming.
The only good thing I can see happening if this is true is the possible DESTRUCTION of the Republican Party. Ah, but I will not hold my breath.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,868
9,582
136
The faithful sit through the sermons. They know what their master tells them to know. And nothing else.
I think you have to be functionally illiterate to not be offended by the utterances of Donald Trump. Thinking people they are not.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,868
9,582
136
They aren't a church, they are a cult.
There are religious cults with some sophistication. Trump lacks the intelligence and imagination to develop and perpetuate anything of the sort. His is a garden variety cult, the sort of thing a 6th grader of low IQ would develop. It will die when he dies. The America we knew, however, is apt to be in ruins.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,868
9,582
136
Does the American states have sales taxes? Should we take these into account? California seems to be in 7% range. New York is higher.
I think it can vary some from county to county but I believe my sales tax is 10.25% right now here in Alameda County, California. It's been edging up gradually for years. Not so long ago it was in the 9% range. Some things are sales tax exempt, in particular groceries, also IIRC, if I buy a vegetable seedling at a nursery, and I suppose if I buy, say, tomato seeds.

Personally, I think sales taxes are an unfair institution. I mean, you've already paid taxes on your income. Charging tax when you spend your money is double jeopardy. That and there's no bias rich versus poor in a sales tax other than the fact that the rich can afford to buy more.
 
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Reactions: RnR_au

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,670
15,615
146
I do use ever-increasing Amazon Prime. I save more than enough in lower prices and shipping costs to offset the stupid price I pay for their service. The video and gaming parts are just icing on the cake for me.
I also use Microsoft Office...but I own the disks for Office 2010. That's more than good enough for me. (and, yes, I know...it's only a license, not actual ownership...but software has been that way for decades.)
You know you can get free shipping from them without paying for prime right?
 
Reactions: Muse

RnR_au

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2021
2,383
5,688
106
Personally, I think sales taxes are an unfair institution. I mean, you've already paid taxes on your income. Charging tax when you spend your money is double jeopardy. That and there's no bias rich versus poor in a sales tax other than the fact that the rich can afford to buy more.
idk... I haven't given alot of thought into this, but I feel sales taxes are more reasonably than income taxes. As long as the minimum wage was boosted, imagine if the income tax was zero, but the sales tax was say 30%. Or even higher. There are so many dodgy schemes for rich folk to avoid paying income tax. Ok noone pays income tax. The rich folk still likes their nice things, and their nice houses needs a craptonne of heating etc etc. All of this nice stuff has hefty sales tax on it.

I know... there will be some loop hole so that some sales taxes can be avoided... but while we are at it... maybe we can make land taxes completely replace company taxes. Another area rife with dodgy accounting.
 
Reactions: Josh128

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,914
3,217
136
To be honest. I was thinking this morning and I think this is the plot the movie Hudsucker proxy
 

Josh128

Senior member
Oct 14, 2022
741
1,249
106
I think it can vary some from county to county but I believe my sales tax is 10.25% right now here in Alameda County, California. It's been edging up gradually for years. Not so long ago it was in the 9% range. Some things are sales tax exempt, in particular groceries, also IIRC, if I buy a vegetable seedling at a nursery, and I suppose if I buy, say, tomato seeds.

Personally, I think sales taxes are an unfair institution. I mean, you've already paid taxes on your income. Charging tax when you spend your money is double jeopardy. That and there's no bias rich versus poor in a sales tax other than the fact that the rich can afford to buy more.
That 10.25% surely includes local sales tax of 4% to 5% or so, at least thats how most states do it.
 
Reactions: Muse

Josh128

Senior member
Oct 14, 2022
741
1,249
106
idk... I haven't given alot of thought into this, but I feel sales taxes are more reasonably than income taxes. As long as the minimum wage was boosted, imagine if the income tax was zero, but the sales tax was say 30%. Or even higher. There are so many dodgy schemes for rich folk to avoid paying income tax. Ok noone pays income tax. The rich folk still likes their nice things, and their nice houses needs a craptonne of heating etc etc. All of this nice stuff has hefty sales tax on it.

I know... there will be some loop hole so that some sales taxes can be avoided... but while we are at it... maybe we can make land taxes completely replace company taxes. Another area rife with dodgy accounting.
I think this may be what the Trump administration is looking to do, but it still overwhelmingly favors the wealthy, because there is a certain income threshold below which almost every dollar made must be spent to make ends meet, while above that threshold, most income will go untaxed if not spent. Where then will the money come from to pay for basic services, roads, etc.?
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,371
10,080
136
Cool channel, thanks

Dunno how it ended up on my recommended list a few years ago, but I watch it sometimes.

The narrator left/ lost his job a few years ago and was so depressed.. he sold everything and just wanted to drive across America as a getaway. Started recording his travels.. and eventually 1 of his vids went viral.

So now he can sustain it. Sometimes they visit towns and eat there and give reviews on them.

There was one near Albany, NY a few months ago.. I would have never found that restaurant otherwise but it was good.
 
Reactions: DAPUNISHER
Dec 10, 2005
27,437
11,708
136
idk... I haven't given alot of thought into this, but I feel sales taxes are more reasonably than income taxes. As long as the minimum wage was boosted, imagine if the income tax was zero, but the sales tax was say 30%. Or even higher. There are so many dodgy schemes for rich folk to avoid paying income tax. Ok noone pays income tax. The rich folk still likes their nice things, and their nice houses needs a craptonne of heating etc etc. All of this nice stuff has hefty sales tax on it.

I know... there will be some loop hole so that some sales taxes can be avoided... but while we are at it... maybe we can make land taxes completely replace company taxes. Another area rife with dodgy accounting.
Or you can just close those loopholes and enforce laws against the cheaters. We shouldn't throw up our hands because some people are shitheads.

Sales taxes are bad because of the marginal utility of money declining as you get more money, which is also why progressive income taxes should be viewed as the most "fair".
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
31,060
29,165
146
Dunno how it ended up on my recommended list a few years ago, but I watch it sometimes.

The narrator left/ lost his job a few years ago and was so depressed.. he sold everything and just wanted to drive across America as a getaway. Started recording his travels.. and eventually 1 of his vids went viral.

So now he can sustain it. Sometimes they visit towns and eat there and give reviews on them.

There was one near Albany, NY a few months ago.. I would have never found that restaurant otherwise but it was good.
Yeah, I just vanished 3hrs on skimming through his vids. Great job of showing how poor, folks right here in the U.S. are. A lot of those towns need zero work to use for post apocalyptic films and shows. I sort of get why most rural are MAGA. They are ready to burn it all down because they are already at teh bottom. The fuck do they care about your investment portfolio or retirement savings? Or deporting people they think are using up state and fed dollars, that lies have made them believe would otherwise being going to them?

Tariffs are something they probably think will impact richer folks and not them.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,371
10,080
136
Yeah, I just vanished 3hrs on skimming through his vids. Great job of showing how poor, folks right here in the U.S. are. A lot of those towns need zero work to use for post apocalyptic films and shows. I sort of get why most rural are MAGA. They are ready to burn it all down because they are already at teh bottom. The fuck do they care about your investment portfolio or retirement savings? Or deporting people they think are using up state and fed dollars, that lies have made them believe would otherwise being going to them?

Tariffs are something they probably think will impact richer folks and not them.

Dems gave them social nets, medicaid, subsidies, food stamps and yet they spit all over dems now. So why even try now for them when they clearly want to chop off the hand that feeds.

It's why I wish if a dem somehow comes to power.. I don't want him to waste time fixing the country, I want him to break the country apart so we can finally get out of this national nightmare of being forced to live together. What's the point of building something when there are so many MAGA dedicated to destroying everything?

It's like you make a dish only for someone to spit in it every chance for LOL's. We're beyond trying to actually be able to fix those people. They haven't changed, they will not change.

Like any dysfunctional family you just need to move the fuck out and live your lives away from each other. And hopefully we can start deporting MAGA so they could all live next to each other.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,416
6,441
136
Dems gave them social nets, medicaid, subsidies, food stamps and yet they spit all over dems now. So why even try now for them when they clearly want to chop off the hand that feeds.

It's why I wish if a dem somehow comes to power.. I don't want him to waste time fixing the country, I want him to break the country apart so we can finally get out of this national nightmare of being forced to live together. What's the point of building something when there are so many MAGA dedicated to destroying everything?

It's like you make a dish only for someone to spit in it every chance for LOL's. We're beyond trying to actually be able to fix those people. They haven't changed, they will not change.

Like any dysfunctional family you just need to move the fuck out and live your lives away from each other. And hopefully we can start deporting MAGA so they could all live next to each other.
It is a dilemma. If people have been fed misinformation and lies for a long time and have received poor education, should you still try to make them a better society? and if yes how so?
 
Reactions: DAPUNISHER

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,371
10,080
136
It is a dilemma. If people have been fed misinformation and lies for a long time and have received poor education, should you still try to make them a better society? and if yes how so?

I believe in cutting my losses quickly.. so the next person they blame will be their overlords themselves.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,094
43,136
136
I see with Trump's help the market has broken out the high grade hopium that he's going to delay. I doubt it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,094
43,136
136
the treasury secretary just had to say, we think we will make some good deals. and the market pump begins. it's all just such a joke the whole system.

Anything besides basically a superficial agreement isn't possible because Trump literally thinks the trade surplus any country has with us is sitting in some government account which they can decide to pay out to him. He is a weapons grade moron.
 
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