The Truth About Socialism

[Meghan54]

What can we do to bring down the costs of health care? Do we need the death panels that Palin talked about?


1 million dollar a month teenager
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...per-month-illness-no-longer-secret/360919001/

From the article you just linked:

Wellmark leaders have said they don't fault the patient or his family for the cost of his care, and they're glad it's helping to keep him alive. But they said the cost needs to be spread across a bigger pool than the 30,000 Iowans who are in the individual-insurance pool he's in.

Ommen said the pool of Iowans buying individual insurance — as opposed to policies provided by employers or public programs — includes too few young, healthy customers and too many people with chronic medical problems.

Imagine that......what everyone's been trying to tell you would happen is happening in Iowa. Too few young, healthy persons buying ins., driving up ins. costs and forcing ins. cos. to abandon markets. But you still refuse to understand how ins. works.

How to restrain health care costs? Well, gotta start by having one voice to deal with pharma and the rest. Seems to work for Canada, the EU, etc. Why not here? Not saying other countries aren't struggling with rising costs, but they do have some control over the skyrocketing drug costs, and I'd be willing to bet most of them have about zero bankruptcies from unpaid medical bills and/or hospitals shutting down because of too many unpaid medical bills from uninsured ER visits/etc.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Other countries fight costs through a variety of methods we should look into and it’s not just capping drug prices. Not having a fee for service structure, preventative care, etc. Not to mention Americans just live unhealthy lifestyles as it is.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

From the article you just linked:



Imagine that......what everyone's been trying to tell you would happen is happening in Iowa. Too few young, healthy persons buying ins., driving up ins. costs and forcing ins. cos. to abandon markets. But you still refuse to understand how ins. works.

How to restrain health care costs? Well, gotta start by having one voice to deal with pharma and the rest. Seems to work for Canada, the EU, etc. Why not here? Not saying other countries aren't struggling with rising costs, but they do have some control over the skyrocketing drug costs, and I'd be willing to bet most of them have about zero bankruptcies from unpaid medical bills and/or hospitals shutting down because of too many unpaid medical bills from uninsured ER visits/etc.

Nah, i've decided that instead we need to tax you 100% of what you earn and give it to someone who needs it more, just to stay alive. Sorry, sucks to be you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Nah, i've decided that instead we need to tax you 100% of what you earn and give it to someone who needs it more, just to stay alive. Sorry, sucks to be you.

This is how ridiculous you sound:

 

[cytg111]

Nah, i've decided that instead we need to tax you 100% of what you earn and give it to someone who needs it more, just to stay alive. Sorry, sucks to be you.

That is a fair point. In the extreme, to keep my brothers and sisters alive, then yes for gods sake, tax me a 100%.

 

[Meghan54]

Nah, i've decided that instead we need to tax you 100% of what you earn and give it to someone who needs it more, just to stay alive. Sorry, sucks to be you.

Interesting, yet pointless rebuttal.....again. Faced with facts, you turn to 2nd grade rhetoric and never speak to what's presented. Just doing what's expected of you, eh, tajjy?

 

[sdifox]

From the article you just linked:



Imagine that......what everyone's been trying to tell you would happen is happening in Iowa. Too few young, healthy persons buying ins., driving up ins. costs and forcing ins. cos. to abandon markets. But you still refuse to understand how ins. works.

How to restrain health care costs? Well, gotta start by having one voice to deal with pharma and the rest. Seems to work for Canada, the EU, etc. Why not here? Not saying other countries aren't struggling with rising costs, but they do have some control over the skyrocketing drug costs, and I'd be willing to bet most of them have about zero bankruptcies from unpaid medical bills and/or hospitals shutting down because of too many unpaid medical bills from uninsured ER visits/etc.

Cuz corporations are people too and they are better people...

Reality is even the corps want universal healthcare since it reduces their cost. But you guys are so hang up on the self gratifying concept of personal freedom to realise it is in fact far more capitalistic to go universal than the mess you have now. You know, go big and cut cost?

Americans should realise the Federal Government is the biggest corp around and everyone is a shareholder.

 

[glenn1]

That is a fair point. In the extreme, to keep my brothers and sisters alive, then yes for gods sake, tax me a 100%.

I guess we’d need to since like most progressives you’ve shown repeatedly you won’t help via voluntary charity. “I’m fine with raising my taxes” is shorthand for “hell no I won’t help unless forced to by law.” I guess your brother and sister better get ready to die since no tax increase is imminent.

 

[cytg111]

I guess we’d need to since like most progressives you’ve shown repeatedly you won’t help via voluntary charity. “I’m fine with raising my taxes” is shorthand for “hell no I won’t help unless forced to by law.” I guess your brother and sister better get ready to die since no tax increase is imminent.

That is rubbish. 1. personally I do contribute and 2nd. I do want federal oversight on my contributions there is way too many scams outthere, if you want to make sure your money is put to good use I suggest to put it on my tax bill.

 

[sdifox]

I guess we’d need to since like most progressives you’ve shown repeatedly you won’t help via voluntary charity. “I’m fine with raising my taxes” is shorthand for “hell no I won’t help unless forced to by law.” I guess your brother and sister better get ready to die since no tax increase is imminent.

We have universal healthcare, my income tax is about 1/3 of my income :shrug:

And I am in Ontario, we pay a health premium on top of regular universal healthcare insurance.

 

[mikeymikec]

I guess we’d need to since like most progressives you’ve shown repeatedly you won’t help via voluntary charity. “I’m fine with raising my taxes” is shorthand for “hell no I won’t help unless forced to by law.” I guess your brother and sister better get ready to die since no tax increase is imminent.

Where did you learn shorthand? Seriously, that manual must smell like your ass!

 

[sdifox]

Where did you learn shorthand? Seriously, that manual must smell like your ass!

He still has trouble understanding you guys spend more on healthcare spending per capita than all the other socialist countries and have shittier outcome to boot.

 

[Meghan54]

I guess we’d need to since like most progressives you’ve shown repeatedly you won’t help via voluntary charity. “I’m fine with raising my taxes” is shorthand for “hell no I won’t help unless forced to by law.” I guess your brother and sister better get ready to die since no tax increase is imminent.

Good God! You're going back to clinging to the notion that charities should be the safety net for the poor.

Let me ask you......why should people, for instance wounded vets, be forced to beg for money for their care, like via the Wounded Warriors Project? Aren't you just a tad ashamed that such a charity has to even exist?

 

[Genx87]

How you define the poor and how the vast majority of the world define the poor is a bit different, and much of humanity thinks you’re full of shit about most Americans being poor because we don’t have socialized medicine. The US has plenty wrong with it (healthcare included) but it’s got plenty right also.

Americans are typically clueless about how well they have it. I mean if we want to take it to the 1%. Then most of the country should be taxed and sent to the 99%. 99% representing the rest of the world. But when that idea comes up, wealth redistribution doesn't sound so fun anymore once it leaves our borders.

 

[Genx87]

From the article you just linked:



Imagine that......what everyone's been trying to tell you would happen is happening in Iowa. Too few young, healthy persons buying ins., driving up ins. costs and forcing ins. cos. to abandon markets. But you still refuse to understand how ins. works.

How to restrain health care costs? Well, gotta start by having one voice to deal with pharma and the rest. Seems to work for Canada, the EU, etc. Why not here? Not saying other countries aren't struggling with rising costs, but they do have some control over the skyrocketing drug costs, and I'd be willing to bet most of them have about zero bankruptcies from unpaid medical bills and/or hospitals shutting down because of too many unpaid medical bills from uninsured ER visits/etc.

I'd also imagine these countries have a more free market when it comes to these drugs than the United States. Prescription drugs in the US are a real world example the costs of protectionism is on the avg person.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Americans are typically clueless about how well they have it. I mean if we want to take it to the 1%. Then most of the country should be taxed and sent to the 99%. 99% representing the rest of the world. But when that idea comes up, wealth redistribution doesn't sound so fun anymore once it leaves our borders.

You may want to check your math, USA is around 4.4% of the world's population.
In case you didn't notice, 4.4% is much more than twice as big as 1% ...

I get your point, but, what Sanders any many other "wealth-distribution" folks are talking about are the "billionaire class." They may say "one percent", but that's simply because it's easier than ".0001 percent" or whatever ...

Edit:
My point being ... somebody who makes $500K per year has more in common with a poor family who makes $500 per year than with somebody who makes $500M per year.

 

[jmagg]

Edit:
My point being ... somebody who makes $500K per year has more in common with a poor family who makes $500 per year than with somebody who makes $500M per year.

You may want to rethink that.

 

[Genx87]

You may want to rethink that.

His response is hilarious because it shows how clueless and out of touch with reality most Americans are about income and wealth compared to a sizeable portion of the world.

 

[glenn1]

You may want to rethink that.

Nope it’s typical progressive thinking. It’s only the “rich” who need their taxes raised and never them, and “rich” is always conveniently defined to exclude them.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I will freely admit that I may be completely wrong about this " somebody who makes $500K per year has more in common with a poor family who makes $500 per year than with somebody who makes $500M per year"

 

[bshole]

Nope it’s typical progressive thinking. It’s only the “rich” who need their taxes raised and never them, and “rich” is always conveniently defined to exclude them.

Weird how the taxes on the rich have been on a steady decline for decades now. Your side is winning on this Glen and has been since the 70s.

I guess we’d need to since like most progressives you’ve shown repeatedly you won’t help via voluntary charity. “I’m fine with raising my taxes” is shorthand for “hell no I won’t help unless forced to by law.” I guess your brother and sister better get ready to die since no tax increase is imminent.

I wonder what our military would look like if we applied your logic to funding it. Technically it isn't your logic since I heard that logic in the 70s from my dad. We all know that the social safety net was created because charity alone was not getting the job done and there was tremendous amount of human suffering. It is not enough for progressives to use charity as the sole method to help the poor if conservatives/moderates aren't willing to chip in. You need the contribution of all Americans, not just the charitable to establish an achievable minimum standard.

 

[interchange]

He still has trouble understanding you guys spend more on healthcare spending per capita than all the other socialist countries and have shittier outcome to boot.

Shhhhh... All that matters is how much the gubmint is stealing from you. And of course we have better healthcare. Look at all dem fancy MRI machines!

 

[Zaap]

I will freely admit that I may be completely wrong about this " somebody who makes $500K per year has more in common with a poor family who makes $500 per year than with somebody who makes $500M per year"

Heh, yes you are completely wrong about that.

First of all.. a family making $500... a year? Where exactly is this family? Calcutta living over an open sewer? Even trying at it, there's no such thing in the US.

And people think there's some grand difference between 500k and 500m in ways that honestly are mostly imaginary. Like if you make 500m, you eat 100 lunches per day, live in a different house every night and when you buy *anything* its 100 of the most expensive one instead of just the 1 you need.

Its this imaginary belief that's behind the silly notion that replacing income taxes with consumption taxes would work, because naturally this tiny fraction numerically of people will spend (and therefore match the consumption taxes) equivalent to litterally millions of normal people... simply because they can, not that it's based on anything practical.

In other words, there's a belief the millionaire buys the gold plated BLT every day for lunch (and 100 of them at that) rather than the same $15 lunch his 500k friend does.... just 'cuz.

Anyway no. 500k and 500m actually probably live close to the same lifestyle in reality... just the 500m person has more in the bank, more and bigger stuff, and likely employs a whole bunch of other people.

500 a year has nothing much in common with anyone in the US except homeless people.

Actually that's quite a bit unfair even for a lot of homeless. There are many who actually hustle their asses and make a few hundred bucks a DAY let alone a year. Of course, that's to shoot it into their veins and support horrendous addictions but still...

 

[brycejones]

Nope it’s typical progressive thinking. It’s only the “rich” who need their taxes raised and never them, and “rich” is always conveniently defined to exclude them.

Derp

 

[werepossum]

Socialism is like water. If you have none, you have a miserable and probably short life. If you have too much, you have a miserable and probably short life. And if it's polluted, you have a miserable and probably short life.