The ultimate AGP video card today?

[wanchan]

Trying to replace dying Radeon 9700 Pro on my 5-year old system...
What do you recommend as today's best AGP video card? Would appreciate your advices and comments!

Here is what I've got......

What system I will use the AGP video card for:
- CPU: Intel Pentium 4 2.2 GHz; Socket 478; Chipset 845/ICH2; Memory DDR266 (2GB)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IRXP: 1 x AGP 4X slot (1.5V - 1.8V) and AGP 2.0 compliant
- Power supply: Enermax 530W Power [Model: EG651P-VE (FMA)]
- PC case: Lian Li PC-70 USB ATX Full-Tower (Silver)
- Display: NEC LCD 1850E (Planning to upgrade to Dell 2707WFP 27" soon)
* No upgrade plan for the rest - this will be my last video card for the system

What I will use the AGP video card for:
I am a movie buff watching a lot of HD videos and movies. I am not a gamer but thinking about trying out some of those bad boys just for fun.

The card should have at least 256mb RAM, and better RAM clock speed and the RAM type.
I don't really need fancy stuff like TV turner and such...Since this will be my last video card upgrade till the system becomes useless (CPU/mobo wise) I need a card that lasts a bit longer.

What I am considering:
nVidia 7800GS or 7600GT: Since they are both quite affordable, I am thinking...just pick up the better one...

Again thanks for the help!

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: wanchan
Trying to replace dying Radeon 9700 Pro on my 5-year old system...
What do you recommend as today's best AGP video card? Would appreciate your advices and comments!

Here is what I've got......

What system I will use the AGP video card for:
- CPU: Intel Pentium 4 2.2 GHz; Socket 478; Chipset 845/ICH2; Memory DDR266 (2GB)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IRXP: 1 x AGP 4X slot (1.5V - 1.8V) and AGP 2.0 compliant
- Power supply: Enermax 530W Power [Model: EG651P-VE (FMA)]
- PC case: Lian Li PC-70 USB ATX Full-Tower (Silver)
- Display: NEC LCD 1850E (Planning to upgrade to Dell 2707WFP 27" soon)
* No upgrade plan for the rest - this will be my last video card for the system

What I will use the AGP video card for:
I am a movie buff watching a lot of HD videos and movies. I am not a gamer but thinking about trying out some of those bad boys just for fun.

The card should have at least 256mb RAM, and better RAM clock speed and the RAM type.
I don't really need fancy stuff like TV turner and such...Since this will be my last video card upgrade till the system becomes useless (CPU/mobo wise) I need a card that lasts a bit longer.

What I am considering:
nVidia 7800GS or 7600GT: Since they are both quite affordable, I am thinking...just pick up the better one...

Again thanks for the help!

This is the best AGP around $164.

Although for $190 You would get
A new mobo
New low power CPU
And 4GB of DDR2

Or you could use 2GB to bring it down to the price of the 3850 AGP.

That new setup would be your best choice for a low cost HD video system with blu ray, H.264 and HD decoding, not to mention expandability for a PCI-E card in future to run Hyrbrid Crossfire / more modern CPU's.

 

[Skunkwourk]

could try this guy in FS/FT
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...y=y&keyword1=x1950+agp

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: wanchan
What I am considering:
nVidia 7800GS or 7600GT: Since they are both quite affordable, I am thinking...just pick up the better one...

At what [quite affordable] price can you get these? Because you can easily end-up throwing good money after bad on this setup by the impact of your CPU, AGP 4x bus, and DDR266 RAM.

Radeon HD 3850 would be a waste of money because the rest of your system will be a significant bottleneck to this card's potential. 7600GT or 7800GS would probably define the upper-limit for cards that will not be significantly limited.

In addition, ATI has released 'hotfix' versions of every Catalyst driver since 7.12 to address driver issues with AGP versions of its Radeon HD 2xxx and 3xxx cards. You may want to steer clear of those, at least until ATI can finally put-out a stable Catalyst driver for them.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: wanchan
What I will use the AGP video card for:
I am a movie buff watching a lot of HD videos and movies.

For your uses, the only card(s) that make sense at all are the ATI 2600 Pro's and 2600XT's; they're the only AGP cards (besides the poorly priced 2400 Pro's) that provide HD video acceleration. None of nVidia's AGP cards do, and I'm pretty sure that the X1950 Pro's don't either, although I'm not 100% positive about the X1950's. Newegg has a really good deal on an AGP 2600XT: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814161208

 

[stepone]

Realistically you're going to need a new cpu, mobo, ram & graphics card as your system has reached the point of diminishing returns where a new graphics card would really be a waste.
However if you insist then get the 2600xt that myocardia lists, but remember that graphics cards won't accelerate most downloaded HD x264 movies only blu ray movies (although you can use the cyberlink h264 decoder in some instances to enable hardware acceleration).

 

[wanchan]

Thanks for the helpful hints. They helped me cover as many perspectives as a PC shopper could think of.

A little personal note...
I am in a weird situation - working in Hong Kong at this moment. Unlike in the States. I have to run around and shop at local stores. Nevertheless Newegg links are welcome and serve as great references. As such, my primary motive for this video card upgrade is to replace my current defective Radeon 9700 Pro with a mid-range one that both meets my purposes and helps the system last for another year. In a year when I am back to the States I will do an overall system upgrade.

I will settle with ATI 2600 Pro/XT then. I originally thought about nVidia 7800GS or 7600GT because I am seriously fed up with ATI Catalyst drivers.

My budget for the card is around USD100. I found some that fit the bill at my local stores.
But one big problem though...the video cards are all AGP 8X while my mobo's AGP slot supports only 4X according to Gigabyte. Can I use 8X card on AGP 4X mobo? Hmmm....

 

[happy medium]

Grab yourself a used 6800gt off ebay. Your cpu will still be be the bottleneck but it will run fine.

 

[wanchan]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Grab yourself a used 6800gt off ebay. Your cpu will still be be the bottleneck but it will run fine.

Thought about Leadtek Winfast 6800Ultra which I can get from a trusted seller at less than USD80 locally in Hong Kong. Is it any good for HD movies?

 

[wanchan]

Thought about Leadtek Winfast 6800Ultra which I can get from a trusted seller at less than USD80 locally in Hong Kong. Is it any good for HD movies?

I did a bit of catch with the latest and some considerations. They sound amatuar but I am trying get the whole thing done quick. Appreciate your comments and critiques.

ATI Family:
- 2600 Pro/XT (first candidate for HD movies, in)
- X1950 (not yet sure how compared with others)
- 3650 (too much for my system, out!)
- 3850 (too much for my system, out!)

nVidia Family:
* 6800Ultra (not yet sure how compared with others)
* 7600GT (second candidate, in)
* 7800GS (too much for my system, out!)
* 7950GT (too much for my system, out!)

 

[Andrew1990]

The 6800Ultra is better than the 7600GT in most situations. The 7600GT is similar to a 6800GT. The 2600XT would be the one I chose out of all of them just for the fact that ATI cards have better HD features IMO.

 

[ther00kie16]

Looks like newegg has this 3650 AGP? I wasn't aware of this and seems like an intriguing option as opposed to the overpriced 3850 when compared to pci-e counterpart. At less than $100, it just might make it bearable.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: wanchan
Thought about Leadtek Winfast 6800Ultra which I can get from a trusted seller at less than USD80 locally in Hong Kong. Is it any good for HD movies?

GF 7 Series has significantly improved video decoding efficiency over GF 6 Series, though neither truly supports advanced HD decoding on the level of GF 8 Series and ATI HD 2xxx/3xxx. I recommend avoiding any GF 6800 AGP variant due to certain decoding features being disabled or non-working on the 6800 AGP parts:

PureVideo Product Comparison

The 6800Ultra is roughly on-par with the 3D performance of 7600GT, anyway, so that should knock 6800 out of the discussion entirely.

I think its a bit of a gamble with the Radeon HD 2xxx or 3xxx AGP cards, given the ATI driver situation for those parts, but they would be the best for HD decoding out of all cards discussed thus far. The HD 3650 is somewhere between HD 2600PRO and 2600XT in gaming performance, so its not overkill like the HD 3850 would be.

If you can find a store that will let you exchange the Radeon HD 2xxx/3xxx should you be striken by ATI driver problems, that would eliminate the risk of being stuck with it.

 

[wanchan]

Originally posted by: A lot of valuable info before this......If you can find a store that will let you exchange the Radeon HD 2xxx/3xxx should you be striken by ATI driver problems, that would eliminate the risk of being stuck with it.

I will make sure ask for that, and it shouldn't be a big problem here.

Aaahh, that is kindda info I really wanted. Thanks many times tcsenter!
I was concerned with the possible heat issues with 6800Ultra myself after readings and discussions. So 6800Ultra is out for sure.

After a series of calls to stores, it seems prices go like this for these three, in HK.
ATI HD 2600Pro about USD100 (zero tax and no shipping),
add USD10 I will get 2600XT; and for about USD120 I will get X195Pro.
Price-wise they really don't make too much different to me however I am concerned about which is the wisest choice for my situation. Might just get 2600Pro though!

 

[wanchan]

Dupe, sorry!

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: wanchan
Is it any good for HD movies?

Yes, as long as your CPU is powerful enough to brute-strength the HD movies, but yours is far from it. No nVidia cards before the 8600GT's had HD acceleration, and the 8600's were never made in AGP. And for an extra $10, the 2600XT is obviously the card to choose. A few months ago, it was $50 more than the 2600 Pro. Note that they will perform identically, when watching HD, but if you game like you say you might, the 2600XT will be worth every extra cent.

 

[ghost recon88]

+1 for the HD2600XT AGP

 

[ther00kie16]

For HD, definitely 2600xt. However, the x1950 will destroy the 2600xt in games. Only disadvantage is the lack of hardware acceleration for HD.

 

[evolucion8]

I second that, but strangely, the gaming performance of the Radeon HD 2600XT is very erratic, in old games pre 2005, the X1950PRO crushes the HD 2600XT, but in newer games, sometimes the HD 2600XT is twice as fast as the X1950PRO, specially with Anti Aliasing off, once it's off, the gap reduces, but still faster overall, I recommend the 2600XT, the X1950PRO doesn't accelerate completely the HD content, it reduces the CPU usage from 100% to at least 60% or 70% of the CPU cycles of an average CPU, which is lower than not having a hardware accelerated HD content videocard like the 7900GS, but a HD 2600XT can reduce the CPU usage by as much as 20%, which is outstanding.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
but a HD 2600XT can reduce the CPU usage as much as 20%, which is outstanding.

That should be "by as much as 80%", or "down to 20%", although I'm sure that's what you were meaning to say.

 

[evolucion8]

Yeah, my english is not perfect yet hehe

 

[wanchan]

I'm very much discouraged about buying HD2600Pro/XT after reading buyer feedback at Newegg. The feedback clearly shows that the AGP version of HD2600Pro/XT is not dying but dead, killed by AMD's cease in driver development. I highly doubt those OEM manufacturers can release any decent drivers. My tentative conclusion is that I am not going to buy something already dead and not supported.

Second, in my gut I don't trust the concept of pseudo-AGP bridge used in HD2600Pro/XT. I like genuine AGP much better.

In strong contract, nVidia GeForce 7600GT is well received by buyers such as those on Newegg (Model#: 512-A8-N559). I am still fiercely debating with myself. I might either try to get 7600GT as cheap as possible (USD120 in HK) or just cheaper 7600GS. However tcsenter's comments greatly made me concerned about GF 7600 series limited capability.

In short, at this moment I am totally unable to decide which to go for, HD2600 Pro or GF 7600GT/GS.

Again I can forget about gaming even entirely. But as I've said, I love watching HD videos and movies.

 

[wanchan]

Call me crazy, damn or whatever. I bought this.
"SAPPHIRE 100228L Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X HDCP Ready Video Card - Retail"

Paid for about USD150 in Hong Kong. I read great review about it, and the price was very cheap. I could not help. Plus I got very tired of debating with myself about what to get - had two sleepless nights.

Just hope my PSU will take it, and CPU does not bottleneck it, too much......

Again thanks all for your helpful comments and great patience. Though the result was a bit different :biggrin:

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: wanchan
Just hope my PSU will take it, and CPU does not bottleneck it, too much......

A 3850 uses less power than a 2600XT, though not alot less. Your CPU will be a huge bottleneck, though.

 

[wanchan]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: wanchan
Just hope my PSU will take it, and CPU does not bottleneck it, too much......

A 3850 uses less power than a 2600XT, though not alot less. Your CPU will be a huge bottleneck, though.

I bought 3850 honestly because the price difference b/w 2600XT and 3850 was very small in HK - less than US$20.

Would a CPU upgrade be worthwhile at all? I guess the fastest single core CPU is 3.2Ghz which I saw being sold less than US$40 at used parts stores in HK. As for my mobo's slow 4X AGP bus, I will guess I have to deal with it till the end......

I am also concerned that my new 3850 might run into power heat problems. Not because the unit has intrinsic heat problem, but because I rarely turn off my computer - like once in 1-2 weeks. Oh, this computer is also my P2P seed box.