The Ultimate Wal Mart Thread; Is Wal Mart good for America

[LunarRay]

alchemize,

Hard work to me means a) physically hard labor or b) long hours (or maybe even both). Sunup to sundown. Just like the "good ole days". College learnin ain't your style? Then workin hard is. If we're gonna apply a tax to every single good and service in the country, then we need some serious sweat equity in it to offset the impact.

There are some impediments to your position regarding the hours.. Federal and State OT laws would need being changed. The fact that we are in a job creation mode long hours might eliminate a position for every two or three jobs working those hours. Although, it might be cost effective to actually pay the OT than hire the next Ee.
I think we need dealing with the trade deficit and moving it back to zero or a bit in the other direction to start eliminating the accumulated two or three trillion owed.
There can be no doubt that this won't turn around so long as we import our goods and export our jobs. Eventually, all jobs or at least most will feel the impact of this. We will become equal with the rest of the world in time. Since we are the or were the rich kids we will decline our wages and the world or the folks who provide services and goods should (but don't always) increase theirs. This would be fine if the cost of goods and services here are priced to reflect this actuality. Simply stated; as the wage rates decline so should the relative price of widgets.

It is possible, I suppose for some parts or sectors of our economy to remain secure. If this occurs we will find a broadening of the lower levels of our economic standards which will necessarily cause property values to decline in areas where these folks are forced to reside. There simply has to be a Newtonian aspect to all this... equal and opposite.. $ earned by Walmart must either be $ not spent elsewhere or reduced savings or increased debt. (population growth eliminated).

With the above the reduced $ into the Treasury Coffers requires higher taxes to meet the debt service, mandated programs and etc. or increased debt.. which then has all its own set of problems.

 

[dmcowen674]

Best Buy and Circuit City hint of their demise by the hands of Wal-Mart:

12-17-2003 Best Buy Cuts Outlook

...discounters like Wal-Mart are also slashing prices on such popular items as digital cameras, camcorders, DVD players, home theater systems and big-screen TV's.

Best Buy gained nearly 4 percent on hopes that the chain could still handily meet or even beat its lowered expectations...Shares of Circuit City, meanwhile, tumbled by almost 7 percent
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like 2004 will have the plug pulled on the Circuit stores with the Best Buy not being the best and not far behind.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Best Buy and Circuit City hint of their demise by the hands of Wal-Mart:

12-17-2003 Best Buy Cuts Outlook

...discounters like Wal-Mart are also slashing prices on such popular items as digital cameras, camcorders, DVD players, home theater systems and big-screen TV's.

Best Buy gained nearly 4 percent on hopes that the chain could still handily meet or even beat its lowered expectations...Shares of Circuit City, meanwhile, tumbled by almost 7 percent
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like 2004 will have the plug pulled on the Circuit stores with the Best Buy not being the best and not far behind.

you forgot

Shares of Circuit City, meanwhile, tumbled by almost 7 percent on concern that it lost (news - web sites) more market share even with promotions and a costly store revamp. Analysts also said a move to hire some 12,000, mostly part-time staff for the holidays, also hurt the chain as many lacked sales experience.


Best Buy's profit in the quarter ended Nov. 29 was $122 million, or 37 cents a share, in line with Wall Street lowered average view, compared with $86 million, or 27 cents a share, a year ago. Including a loss on discontinued operations of $27 million, Best Buy in the year-ago third quarter had net earnings of $59 million, or 18 cents a share.


Best Buy said it expects fourth-quarter profit to range from $1.34 to $1.39 a share. Analysts' average view was $1.41, according to Reuters Research, a unit of Reuters Group Plc.

profits are still up over last year!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Best Buy and Circuit City hint of their demise by the hands of Wal-Mart:

12-17-2003 Best Buy Cuts Outlook

...discounters like Wal-Mart are also slashing prices on such popular items as digital cameras, camcorders, DVD players, home theater systems and big-screen TV's.

Best Buy gained nearly 4 percent on hopes that the chain could still handily meet or even beat its lowered expectations...Shares of Circuit City, meanwhile, tumbled by almost 7 percent
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like 2004 will have the plug pulled on the Circuit stores with the Best Buy not being the best and not far behind.

you forgot

Shares of Circuit City, meanwhile, tumbled by almost 7 percent on concern that it lost (news - web sites) more market share even with promotions and a costly store revamp. Analysts also said a move to hire some 12,000, mostly part-time staff for the holidays, also hurt the chain as many lacked sales experience.


Best Buy's profit in the quarter ended Nov. 29 was $122 million, or 37 cents a share, in line with Wall Street lowered average view, compared with $86 million, or 27 cents a share, a year ago. Including a loss on discontinued operations of $27 million, Best Buy in the year-ago third quarter had net earnings of $59 million, or 18 cents a share.


Best Buy said it expects fourth-quarter profit to range from $1.34 to $1.39 a share. Analysts' average view was $1.41, according to Reuters Research, a unit of Reuters Group Plc.

profits are still up over last year!

It's been spewed in here and on the News over and over of how these Corporations "Profits" are "UP" but miraculously they still "Lose" money and go bankrupt.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: LunarRay

We once could raise a middle class family on the income of 'Dad' alone. Mom would stay home and raise the kids.

Of course that was before the women's liberation movement and such. People can still live on one income. Look back at the life that the average middle class person had. They didn't have a huge house or two $50,000 automobiles that are so common now.

Women now choose to work over staying home because they want more money to afford the luxeries they desire. Is this the fault of companies or the fault of the consumer for wanting more and more and more and more.

People can be happy one one income, it's just that they choose not to.

What are you talking about? I don't consider huge house and two $50,000 autos middle class. That's upper class, or maybe upper middle if you wanna stretch it. Middle class is cheap homes and two $20,000 autos. If only one parent works, then that's one $10,000 autos and maybe they live in an apartment.

 

[LunarRay]

Do you think someone earning 25K$ a year can live here?

For the first time, San Diego County's skyrocketing housing market has made the region the least affordable of the state's major metropolitan areas ? worse than the San Francisco Bay Area, Silicon Valley and Orange County, the California Association of Realtors reported yesterday.

In October, only 16 percent of San Diego County households could afford to buy a median-priced, resale, single-family home, pegged at a record price of $449,340, the association found.

Ya gotta just look at what 445,000$ will get you here!

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Do you think someone earning 25K$ a year can live here?

For the first time, San Diego County's skyrocketing housing market has made the region the least affordable of the state's major metropolitan areas ? worse than the San Francisco Bay Area, Silicon Valley and Orange County, the California Association of Realtors reported yesterday.

In October, only 16 percent of San Diego County households could afford to buy a median-priced, resale, single-family home, pegged at a record price of $449,340, the association found.

Ya gotta just look at what 445,000$ will get you here!

At least living costs in Montreal aren't so bad.
If you're young and single, you can afford a decent car and an apartment on even a low paying job.
I work 25 hours a week at $10CDN an hour, and also go to school full time.
That's about CDN$13000/year gross though it's more like CDN$10000 net.

I am able to pay for a 3 1/2 apartment ($400.. a good deal I will admit), food (another $200 a month), car ($260 lease) and break even. If I wasn't going to school and working 40 hours a week even at CDN$10 I'd be able to save money.
The minimum wage here is $7 which is what places like McDonalds and Walmart will pay you.

Now the sad part.. is that of course I could never support a family on $10/hour, and myself I would get sick of living in an apartment (which is why I'm in school), but the sad part is that I'm in computer science technology, where there aren't so many jobs available. The other sad part is that even if I get a job and I'm making CDN$30000 a year gross, taxes here are so high that my living standards wouldn't be much better. After tax that would be $14000 a year, not much larger than the $10000 a year net I'm making now.

 

[LunarRay]

Ultima,

At least living costs in Montreal aren't so bad.
If you're young and single, you can afford a decent car and an apartment on even a low paying job.
I work 25 hours a week at $10CDN an hour, and also go to school full time.
That's about CDN$13000/year gross though it's more like CDN$10000 net.

I am able to pay for a 3 1/2 apartment ($400.. a good deal I will admit), food (another $200 a month), car ($260 lease) and break even. If I wasn't going to school and working 40 hours a week even at CDN$10 I'd be able to save money.
The minimum wage here is $7 which is what places like McDonalds and Walmart will pay you.

Now the sad part.. is that of course I could never support a family on $10/hour, and myself I would get sick of living in an apartment (which is why I'm in school), but the sad part is that I'm in computer science technology, where there aren't so many jobs available. The other sad part is that even if I get a job and I'm making CDN$30000 a year gross, taxes here are so high that my living standards wouldn't be much better. After tax that would be $14000 a year, not much larger than the $10000 a year net I'm making now.

Something wrong with that picture.. the 17,000 more yields only 4,000 net... really... something wrong with the numbers.. Either that or the Canadian Government is seeking to drastically reduce the birth rate...
I generally never proffer on degree endevours... but, If I were young today and starting college I'd be taking dual majors.. something solid that always is in need like Accounting and pair up with Computer Science so I could marry the two. There is nothing worse than trying to explain to a Computer focused person the reporting output I want or how I want the data to interact.. etc.. And, with out question College has become a 6 year program.. a Master's is essential.. or Walmart awaits.. IMO.

edit 16,000 to 17,000 oops

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ultima,

Something wrong with that picture.. the 17,000 more yields only 4,000 net... really... something wrong with the numbers.. Either that or the Canadian Government is seeking to drastically reduce the birth rate...
I generally never proffer on degree endevours... but, If I were young today and starting college I'd be taking dual majors.. something solid that always is in need like Accounting and pair up with Computer Science so I could marry the two. There is nothing worse than trying to explain to a Computer focused person the reporting output I want or how I want the data to interact.. etc.. And, with out question College has become a 6 year program.. a Master's is essential.. or Walmart awaits.. IMO.

edit 16,000 to 17,000 oops

Believe it or not, taxes here in Canada are very high. It can be very discouraging when you see what your "reward" is after years of hard work in school.. if you even get a decent paying job in the first place:

Here are the correct values ($15000 being full time minimum wage)

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

 

[LunarRay]

Ultima,
I don't doubt the thrust of your statement.. I am amazed that the tax structure is such that the difference between full time and part time work results in a mere 5 or 6 K$ in the pocket.. it would seem that a marginal tax rate on earnings over 17 or so would be like 60% and that floors me..

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ultima,
I don't doubt the thrust of your statement.. I am amazed that the tax structure is such that the difference between full time and part time work results in a mere 5 or 6 K$ in the pocket.. it would seem that a marginal tax rate on earnings over 17 or so would be like 60% and that floors me..

LunarRay, check my post now. I have some cold hard figures that will shock you.

 

[LunarRay]

Ultima,

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Holy Cow!
That is one heck of a high marginal rate 60%~ on the 15,000 over 45,000... Guess Canada never heard of the Laffer Curve.. or maybe you folks don't want too many $ in the hands of the folks or want to stiffle wage demands.. no benefit in it so maybe it creates stability.. I'll have to look into this.. Amazing..

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ultima,

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Holy Cow!
That is one heck of a high marginal rate 60%~ on the 15,000 over 45,000... Guess Canada never heard of the Laffer Curve.. or maybe you folks don't want too many $ in the hands of the folks or want to stiffle wage demands.. no benefit in it so maybe it creates stability.. I'll have to look into this.. Amazing..

There are some reductions for being married and more for having kids.
On $30000 gross, the tax bill will be reduced from $15765 to $13415, and if you have two kids the bill is further reduced to $11233.
On $60000 gross, the reduction for being married is from $33620 to $31270, and with two kids it goes down to $29088.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Ultima

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ultima,

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Holy Cow!
That is one heck of a high marginal rate 60%~ on the 15,000 over 45,000... Guess Canada never heard of the Laffer Curve.. or maybe you folks don't want too many $ in the hands of the folks or want to stiffle wage demands.. no benefit in it so maybe it creates stability.. I'll have to look into this.. Amazing..

There are some reductions for being married and more for having kids.
On $30000 gross, the tax bill will be reduced from $15765 to $13415, and if you have two kids the bill is further reduced to $11233.
On $60000 gross, the reduction for being married is from $33620 to $31270, and with two kids it goes down to $29088.

Are the folks there making over 60K screaming that they are "hurting" and broke like the "Rich" are here?

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Ultima
What are you talking about? I don't consider huge house and two $50,000 autos middle class. That's upper class, or maybe upper middle if you wanna stretch it. Middle class is cheap homes and two $20,000 autos. If only one parent works, then that's one $10,000 autos and maybe they live in an apartment.

Two people each making 40-60k a year is middle class. With that kind of income, couples often can afford a large house and two nice automobiles. I see it day in and day out. Believe me, these people aren't upper class.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Ultima

Believe it or not, taxes here in Canada are very high. It can be very discouraging when you see what your "reward" is after years of hard work in school.. if you even get a decent paying job in the first place:

Here are the correct values ($15000 being full time minimum wage)

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Jesus H. Christ! I hope that "free" healthcare is worth it!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Ultima

Believe it or not, taxes here in Canada are very high. It can be very discouraging when you see what your "reward" is after years of hard work in school.. if you even get a decent paying job in the first place:

Here are the correct values ($15000 being full time minimum wage)

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Jesus H. Christ! I hope that "free" healthcare is worth it!

It just may be, still waiting for Canadians in these high brackets to chime in if they feel they are "hurting" or not.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Ultima

Believe it or not, taxes here in Canada are very high. It can be very discouraging when you see what your "reward" is after years of hard work in school.. if you even get a decent paying job in the first place:

Here are the correct values ($15000 being full time minimum wage)

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Jesus H. Christ! I hope that "free" healthcare is worth it!

It just may be, still waiting for Canadians in these high brackets to chime in if they feel they are "hurting" or not.

Dude, get off your "hurting" fetish already. You have to ask yourself that question. If you made $60k but only kept $26k, how would YOU feel?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Ultima

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ultima,

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Holy Cow!
That is one heck of a high marginal rate 60%~ on the 15,000 over 45,000... Guess Canada never heard of the Laffer Curve.. or maybe you folks don't want too many $ in the hands of the folks or want to stiffle wage demands.. no benefit in it so maybe it creates stability.. I'll have to look into this.. Amazing..

There are some reductions for being married and more for having kids.
On $30000 gross, the tax bill will be reduced from $15765 to $13415, and if you have two kids the bill is further reduced to $11233.
On $60000 gross, the reduction for being married is from $33620 to $31270, and with two kids it goes down to $29088.

Are the folks there making over 60K screaming that they are "hurting" and broke like the "Rich" are here?

There is some pressure to lower taxes here, but not as much as in the US. Some Provinces have cut taxes similar to the US Feds, but they have run into Deficit troubles as a result, also similar to the US Fed. At the Federal level balancing the budget has been emphasized at the expense of Tax
Cuts, which seems to be the main concern of Canadians(balanced budget). Having had a budget surplus for the last 5-6 years in a row, some tax relief has been given as a result. That seems to be the way it will continue to be for now, giving some Tax Relief as Surplusses continue.

Canada had a fiscal crisis in the early '90's that threatened to bankrupt the Nation, so a slow painful process of getting back on track was started and continues to this day. So far it has paid off very well on the Federal level, but some Provinces continue to experience Deficit problems. Most of the Healthcare problems you hear about are a result of the Fiscal crunch and as the Surplus has allowed those problems are being gradually addressed.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Ultima
What are you talking about? I don't consider huge house and two $50,000 autos middle class. That's upper class, or maybe upper middle if you wanna stretch it. Middle class is cheap homes and two $20,000 autos. If only one parent works, then that's one $10,000 autos and maybe they live in an apartment.

Two people each making 40-60k a year is middle class. With that kind of income, couples often can afford a large house and two nice automobiles. I see it day in and day out. Believe me, these people aren't upper class.

So you are going against the other AT Experts in here now that say they are rich making over 100K but yet at the same time they are "hurting"?

 

[ReiAyanami]

yikes, how about tax scales for europe? i know UK's sales tax is 17.5% and the highest bracket is like 60% in france or something

meanwhile hong kong has the lowest with 15% flat tax rate from poor man to millionaire, same rate. not any welfare spending, cuz they don't beleive in welfare or the enviroment. also no military spending
as they've always had the red coats around to protect them. and now big red dragon can protect them (but who will protect them from big red dragon)

 

[assemblage]

K-Mart can do what Walmart is doing, they just fail to do it. I'm a cheap ass though and I hit up all the specials from the different grocery stores. I rarely get groceries from Walmart. I get meat (that's not on sale), vegetables, dog food, and oil from Sams though. I usually pick K-Mart for items so I don't have to fight the crowds and be around all those scummy people.

 

[LunarRay]

For comparison.. This is how Ireland calculates its income tax.. And, they do have free health care available.

Personal allowances and income tax rates
Ireland operates a system of tax credits rather than personal allowances.

The income tax credits for 2003 are:

Single persons ?1,520
Married couples ?3,040
PAYE Credit* ?800
* Not available to proprietary directors and the self employed

The income tax rates for 2003 are as follows:
Single persons
20% on the first ?28,000
42% on the balance

Married persons (one spouse working)
20% on the first ?37,000
42% on the balance

Married persons (both spouses working)
20% on the first ?56,000
40% on the balance

Social Security and Levies

Employees
In addition to income tax there are also social security taxes that have to be paid on earned income. From 1 January 2003 employees social security is charged at the rate of 4% on income up to ?40,420. In both cases, the first £127 of weekly earnings is exempt.

There is a health levy which is charged at the rate of 2% on all income (without limit). The health levy does not apply if aggregate earnings are less than ?18,512.

Self-Employed
Self-employed individuals pay social security at the rate of 3%, plus the 2% health levy on all income without limit.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Ultima

Believe it or not, taxes here in Canada are very high. It can be very discouraging when you see what your "reward" is after years of hard work in school.. if you even get a decent paying job in the first place:

Here are the correct values ($15000 being full time minimum wage)

Gross salary: $15000 Tax bill: $1500 Net Salary: $13500 Tax rate: Around 10%
Gross salary: $30000 Tax bill: $15765 Net Salary: $14235 Tax rate: 52.5%
Gross salary: $45000 Tax bill: $24626 Net Salary: $20374 Tax rate: 54.7%
Gross salary: $60000 Tax bill: $33620 Net Salary: $26380 Tax rate: 56.0%

Jesus H. Christ! I hope that "free" healthcare is worth it!

It just may be, still waiting for Canadians in these high brackets to chime in if they feel they are "hurting" or not.

Dude, get off your "hurting" fetish already. You have to ask yourself that question. If you made $60k but only kept $26k, how would YOU feel?

Dont forget the 15% sales tax....

 

[Zebo]

Walmart used to be my favorite store right after the home depot. I admired Sam Walden greatly for his frugalness (you guys know he drove a old 1973 pickup and lived in a 130K house till his death?) and buy American ideal. He made it all work and grew it into an empire..until the 90's walmart actually had the best customer service too with unfettered return policy, knowledgeable employees working the tackle section who knew what was bitting at the local lake, and freindliness was manditory of you'd be fired.. Today it a sweat shop selling pure junk from china so i don't shop there anymore.

as far as good or bad for america I donno. you can simply shop someplace else like I do if you're unhappy..when that options not available then it's bad and they'll be sued for anti-trust.