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[Destiny]

i wonder why no1 plays sladar now.. its still a good hero, he can chase or escape has stun and amazing ulti with low cd

Slardar is my favourite hero to use in pub games... but lately I've been playing support because no one in pubs want to buy wards...

Hi, I'm a sexy asian girl, trade me rare couriers please...

Have you had that one yet?

Do you have Panda courier? I'll give you anything for the Panda courier.... :biggrin:

 

[{bad}]

Slardar is my favourite hero to use in pub games... but lately I've been playing support because no one in pubs want to buy wards...

i have opposite problem, from last 6 month most of the games i have lost are because of carry.
nearly in every game supports buy wards, courier, smoke etc and e1 de-ward
but its carries that make us lose..
in 30% cases carry will are low level ppl who don't know how get game in higher tiers, they can't e farm treads in safe lane in 1st 15 mins.

and in 70% cases carries are good they farm well and supports gift them all the kills and farm. then they become cocky and starts jumping into other team and keep on dying.

e1 when we are defending tier 3 towers some fool will jump into 5 heroes and die. we have no choice to save our only carry or die trying so. this thing really irritates me.

every1 types fight behind tower, hold hold and some1 will jump out into 5 heroes and force us 2 fight in bad positions,


i really have no idea how some1 with 600 wins is in same game when all other 9 players have 1100+wins.

 

[Zeze]

Sometimes you can tell out of the 10 people in the game, if MM put you on the highest end (you are the best skilled compared to 9 others) or on the lowest end (you are the low skilled).

One game I would have an amazing game where they know how to properly trilane (must deward and must make kills or worthless). They also buy endless wards from the start, and abuse smoke whenever the game is stagnant. 5 people are constantly talking on mic. I consider myself a seasoned player, but sometimes I hardly do much they carry the game with amazing supports.

Then RIGHT ON THE NEXT GAME, no one is talking, Bat buys Vanguard, we don't even have a courier, LOL.

Talk about all over the place.

 

[BergeLSU]

Sometimes you can tell out of the 10 people in the game, if MM put you on the highest end (you are the best skilled compared to 9 others) or on the lowest end (you are the low skilled). One game I would have an amazing game where they know how to properly trilane (must deward and must make kills or worthless). They also buy endless wards from the start, and abuse smoke whenever the game is stagnant. 5 people are constantly talking on mic. I consider myself a seasoned player, but sometimes I hardly do much they carry the game with amazing supports. Then RIGHT ON THE NEXT GAME, no one is talking, Bat buys Vanguard, we don't even have a courier, LOL. Talk about all over the place.

Play AR for 10 matches. The highs and lows are insane.

I'm addicted to the random hero I get each game. I finished my A-Z some time in March and have played -AR exclusively since (unless I play with my friends who are new, then we do SD)

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Sometimes you can tell out of the 10 people in the game, if MM put you on the highest end (you are the best skilled compared to 9 others) or on the lowest end (you are the low skilled).

One game I would have an amazing game where they know how to properly trilane (must deward and must make kills or worthless). They also buy endless wards from the start, and abuse smoke whenever the game is stagnant. 5 people are constantly talking on mic. I consider myself a seasoned player, but sometimes I hardly do much they carry the game with amazing supports.

Then RIGHT ON THE NEXT GAME, no one is talking, Bat buys Vanguard, we don't even have a courier, LOL.

Talk about all over the place.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about Dota. For a game that so emphasises teamwork, it's sad that this happens all the time.

 

[{bad}]

Sometimes you can tell out of the 10 people in the game, if MM put you on the highest end (you are the best skilled compared to 9 others) or on the lowest end (you are the low skilled).

One game I would have an amazing game where they know how to properly trilane (must deward and must make kills or worthless). They also buy endless wards from the start, and abuse smoke whenever the game is stagnant. 5 people are constantly talking on mic. I consider myself a seasoned player, but sometimes I hardly do much they carry the game with amazing supports.

Then RIGHT ON THE NEXT GAME, no one is talking, Bat buys Vanguard, we don't even have a courier, LOL.

Talk about all over the place.

i understand that everyone doesn't have same skill level, their will be some new players who are learning and some good old experienced players, and they should also be put in same game so that low skilled can play with higher skills and watch and learn, that's how everyone learnt dota.

problem that i have is why put some1 with who is really new against 9 high skill people, that guy doesn't know what happening in game. his team abusing him other team only targets him. its really bad experience for that guy ans other 9 players also don't enjoy game.

i still remember when i was on 999 wins, my team got player who was playing his 5th game of dota 2. he picked disruptor and asked us which skills 2 take. he was really confused for 1st 10 mins because he didn't e1 recognize hero models.

though from his gameplay we could c he was good and experienced player of dota 1. though he wasn't too much help but he didn't feed also. we just got lucky and won that game.

except him no1 was below 750 wins. how he came into our game i still don't understand

 

[DrunkenSano]

except him no1 was below 750 wins. how he came into our game i still don't understand

It could be that all four games he played he won, so the first game he played against newish people and won. The second game he played against descent players he won, third game he played against good players and fourth he played against really good players.

The fact that he didn't feed already puts him above the 'new' category, also depending his last hits and denies, it could also be factored in to smurf possibility in the matchmaking system.

So the system could be taking it in that it is a smurf account or an already experienced player.

 

[{bad}]

It could be that all four games he played he won, so the first game he played against newish people and won. The second game he played against descent players he won, third game he played against good players and fourth he played against really good players.

The fact that he didn't feed already puts him above the 'new' category, also depending his last hits and denies, it could also be factored in to smurf possibility in the matchmaking system.

So the system could be taking it in that it is a smurf account or an already experienced player.

but then he sould be with ppl who have played 600-700 games not 2000+ games

 

[BergeLSU]

It could be that all four games he played he won, so the first game he played against newish people and won. The second game he played against descent players he won, third game he played against good players and fourth he played against really good players.

The fact that he didn't feed already puts him above the 'new' category, also depending his last hits and denies, it could also be factored in to smurf possibility in the matchmaking system.

So the system could be taking it in that it is a smurf account or an already experienced player.

He was almost certainly paired with 1 or more people with 800+ wins. Team MM is impossible with that big of a knowledge gap. If you stick him in low level or even mid-level games, his friends would easily pub-stomp. Put him in the higher brackets, and he is lost.

 

[Juddog]

Alright got in an argument last night; can one of the more experienced players please explain this to me?

Basically I was playing Leshrac, and was laning with Meepo. The player was level 85 or some such, I'm level 12 now, we're playing against bots on the hardest setting. This was my 2nd time playing Leshrac.

So I'm working on the basic skills, trying to last hit, etc., got first blood against one of the bots when it tried to snatch the rune in the beginning, so I was doing ok. Occasionally while I was in the lane I popped that ability which damages things around you, forgot what it's called offhand, but it generates energy and just randomly damages stuff (not the ult, the one you start with "E").

Anywho I'm last hitting, occasionally popping the ability, and harassing the enemy, and the Meepo guy starts yelling at me in chat saying that I'm "hogging the creeps" and that I should be "pulling" instead. Can someone please explain what this "pulling" thing is about, and why a ranged who was laning with a melee isn't supposed to last hit? I thought the goal was to last hit the creeps to get cash, upgrade your stuff, and try to gank when you can? Near the end of the game his score was 0 kills, 4 deaths, versus mine which was 6 kills, 2 deaths. At this point he started insulting me again about hogging the creeps or whatever after whining that the game was taking too long.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Alright got in an argument last night; can one of the more experienced players please explain this to me?

Basically I was playing Leshrac, and was laning with Meepo. The player was level 85 or some such, I'm level 12 now, we're playing against bots on the hardest setting. This was my 2nd time playing Leshrac.

So I'm working on the basic skills, trying to last hit, etc., got first blood against one of the bots when it tried to snatch the rune in the beginning, so I was doing ok. Occasionally while I was in the lane I popped that ability which damages things around you, forgot what it's called offhand, but it generates energy and just randomly damages stuff (not the ult, the one you start with "E").

Anywho I'm last hitting, occasionally popping the ability, and harassing the enemy, and the Meepo guy starts yelling at me in chat saying that I'm "hogging the creeps" and that I should be "pulling" instead. Can someone please explain what this "pulling" thing is about, and why a ranged who was laning with a melee isn't supposed to last hit? I thought the goal was to last hit the creeps to get cash, upgrade your stuff, and try to gank when you can? Near the end of the game his score was 0 kills, 4 deaths, versus mine which was 6 kills, 2 deaths. At this point he started insulting me again about hogging the creeps or whatever after whining that the game was taking too long.

First off, edict isn't really that good against creeps, but really good against buildings. The idea is that the damage is spread between how many characters there are to hit, and the whole idea of creeps is that there's usually more than one. Use it against heroes when they're alone or in a small group, or against towers when no enemy creeps are around.

So when you're laning, the best setup is if only one person gets all the experience and all the gold, and the other person(s) are there mainly for the first person's protection. I have doubts about the carry ability of Meepo TBH, but whatever the case may be, he's probably a more farm-dependent hero than Leshrac. So the idea is that if you're laning with him, you do something other than lane like you would normally do and take valuable XP and gold from him.

Things you can do:
1) harass your opponents - especially if you have more regen than they do, you just run up and hit them. If they come up for a last hit, attack them. If they're standing there doing nothing, run up and attack them. etc. At low levels you do a lot of damage compared to later in the game and harassing can really hurt an enemy.

2) roam and look for kills on other lanes - probably best if you're in a trilane, because then you have some backup to ensure the kill.

3) stack and pull. The idea of stacking and pulling is that in a safe lane (the radiant bottom lane and the dire top lane) the natural creep equilibrium (red lines) is quite close to the tier 1 tower (white dot). You'll have to forgive my horrendous drawing skills. However, if you push the lane towards the enemy's tier 1, there are a whole lot of ways in which someone could sneak up on you without you noticing and kill you (on the dire side, the blue arrows in the picture). Therefore, it's best to keep the creep equilibirum towards the tower so that you're safe from ganks and other unfortunate incidents.

There are ways to do this. Obviously, when you attack a creep, you push the creep wave forward. So, to balance this, every time you hit an enemy creep, you should be hitting your own creeps once. It's best to last hit them so you can deny exp to your opponents, but for the purposes of creep equilibrium hitting them at any time will do. If your opponents are good, however, they'll want to pull the creep equilibrium back to their tower because it's safer for them. So they'll want to deny as well. This is where stacking and pulling comes in.

The idea behind stacking camps is that if the creep camps are empty, they refill on the minute, every minute for the entire game. The obvious way to make sure it's empty is to kill the creeps. The other way is to stack.

What you do is you attack the creeps at :52, then walk away immediately. The creeps follow you, and if you time it right, when it gets back to :00, the creeps are far enough away that they don't interfere with the control zone and a new set of creeps spawn. The exact timing is sometimes really lenient but sometimes it's really strict, so it takes practice and experience to stack precisely, especially when you start stacking more than 2 camps. A good rule of thumb is that when you pull, you run towards your own base. That means your enemy doesn't see you stacking, and it doesn't expose you to unnecessary attack.

Pulling is the idea of getting lane creeps to aggro on neutral creeps, so that they leave the lane. When you're in lane, what you do is attack the creep camps I've circled at either :15 or :45, and then run towards the lane, following the arrow. The neutral creeps will attack the lane creeps then run back, pulling the lane creeps into the neutral camp where they will attack each other.

The reason you stack and pull is simple: one stack of the neutral camp is not enough to completely kill off a wave of lane creeps, but two is. If you don't kill off the entire wave, they tend to run back into lane just when the next wave arrives, which defeats the whole purpose - now you have an extra strong wave that's going to push the lane towards the enemy tier 1, and you don't deny as much exp.

Stacking and pulling is a really good way to deny exp and gold from your enemy, and it's also a good source of extra experience for supports, who shouldn't really be taking exp from your farm-dependent hero. The idea is that you're far away enough that the carry gets all the exp for themselves, but you're still close enough that if the enemy want to initiate or harass, you can back up your laning buddy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFwJqcga7V0

There are tons of guides and videos that show you how to do this, and it's probably better if you practice against bots or on an empty map first before doing it in pubs where people might get annoyed at you if you screw up.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Had the worst night last night, 6 losses in a row .
The first two weren't so bad, I was playing with a couple of friends who I know are in a higher bracket than I am and I played OK, but the game gave the other team a better comp in all random.
The next 2 were just bad teams, end ended up being stomps.
The final two again ok teams but the other team had MUCH better players and were just complete stomps.
I was so angry I almost queued up for a 7th but decided against it.

Maybe I need to take a day break from solo queueing.

 

[Juddog]

First off, edict isn't really that good against creeps, but really good against buildings. The idea is that the damage is spread between how many characters there are to hit, and the whole idea of creeps is that there's usually more than one. Use it against heroes when they're alone or in a small group, or against towers when no enemy creeps are around.

So when you're laning, the best setup is if only one person gets all the experience and all the gold, and the other person(s) are there mainly for the first person's protection. I have doubts about the carry ability of Meepo TBH, but whatever the case may be, he's probably a more farm-dependent hero than Leshrac. So the idea is that if you're laning with him, you do something other than lane like you would normally do and take valuable XP and gold from him.

Things you can do:
1) harass your opponents - especially if you have more regen than they do, you just run up and hit them. If they come up for a last hit, attack them. If they're standing there doing nothing, run up and attack them. etc. At low levels you do a lot of damage compared to later in the game and harassing can really hurt an enemy.

2) roam and look for kills on other lanes - probably best if you're in a trilane, because then you have some backup to ensure the kill.

3) stack and pull. The idea of stacking and pulling is that in a safe lane (the radiant bottom lane and the dire top lane) the natural creep equilibrium (red lines) is quite close to the tier 1 tower (white dot). You'll have to forgive my horrendous drawing skills. However, if you push the lane towards the enemy's tier 1, there are a whole lot of ways in which someone could sneak up on you without you noticing and kill you (on the dire side, the blue arrows in the picture). Therefore, it's best to keep the creep equilibirum towards the tower so that you're safe from ganks and other unfortunate incidents.

There are ways to do this. Obviously, when you attack a creep, you push the creep wave forward. So, to balance this, every time you hit an enemy creep, you should be hitting your own creeps once. It's best to last hit them so you can deny exp to your opponents, but for the purposes of creep equilibrium hitting them at any time will do. If your opponents are good, however, they'll want to pull the creep equilibrium back to their tower because it's safer for them. So they'll want to deny as well. This is where stacking and pulling comes in.

The idea behind stacking camps is that if the creep camps are empty, they refill on the minute, every minute for the entire game. The obvious way to make sure it's empty is to kill the creeps. The other way is to stack.

What you do is you attack the creeps at :52, then walk away immediately. The creeps follow you, and if you time it right, when it gets back to :00, the creeps are far enough away that they don't interfere with the control zone and a new set of creeps spawn. The exact timing is sometimes really lenient but sometimes it's really strict, so it takes practice and experience to stack precisely, especially when you start stacking more than 2 camps. A good rule of thumb is that when you pull, you run towards your own base. That means your enemy doesn't see you stacking, and it doesn't expose you to unnecessary attack.

Pulling is the idea of getting lane creeps to aggro on neutral creeps, so that they leave the lane. When you're in lane, what you do is attack the creep camps I've circled at either :15 or :45, and then run towards the lane, following the arrow. The neutral creeps will attack the lane creeps then run back, pulling the lane creeps into the neutral camp where they will attack each other.

The reason you stack and pull is simple: one stack of the neutral camp is not enough to completely kill off a wave of lane creeps, but two is. If you don't kill off the entire wave, they tend to run back into lane just when the next wave arrives, which defeats the whole purpose - now you have an extra strong wave that's going to push the lane towards the enemy tier 1, and you don't deny as much exp.

Stacking and pulling is a really good way to deny exp and gold from your enemy, and it's also a good source of extra experience for supports, who shouldn't really be taking exp from your farm-dependent hero. The idea is that you're far away enough that the carry gets all the exp for themselves, but you're still close enough that if the enemy want to initiate or harass, you can back up your laning buddy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFwJqcga7V0

There are tons of guides and videos that show you how to do this, and it's probably better if you practice against bots or on an empty map first before doing it in pubs where people might get annoyed at you if you screw up.

Ahh ok - so is this considered standard behavior in low-MMR pubs though? He wasn't exactly carrying anything with his craptastic score. Also do you still get exp if the lane creeps kill the neutral creeps, or do you hang around and last hit?

 

[Zeze]

Alright got in an argument last night; can one of the more experienced players please explain this to me?

Basically I was playing Leshrac, and was laning with Meepo. The player was level 85 or some such, I'm level 12 now, we're playing against bots on the hardest setting. This was my 2nd time playing Leshrac.

So I'm working on the basic skills, trying to last hit, etc., got first blood against one of the bots when it tried to snatch the rune in the beginning, so I was doing ok. Occasionally while I was in the lane I popped that ability which damages things around you, forgot what it's called offhand, but it generates energy and just randomly damages stuff (not the ult, the one you start with "E").

Anywho I'm last hitting, occasionally popping the ability, and harassing the enemy, and the Meepo guy starts yelling at me in chat saying that I'm "hogging the creeps" and that I should be "pulling" instead. Can someone please explain what this "pulling" thing is about, and why a ranged who was laning with a melee isn't supposed to last hit? I thought the goal was to last hit the creeps to get cash, upgrade your stuff, and try to gank when you can? Near the end of the game his score was 0 kills, 4 deaths, versus mine which was 6 kills, 2 deaths. At this point he started insulting me again about hogging the creeps or whatever after whining that the game was taking too long.

Stacking & Pulling Guide.

Stacking info on Wiki

You're going to get me to write forever. I'll summarize above:

1. Jungle creeps are an untapped resource (gold & exp). If your carry isn't facing super hard harassment, you should always stack and pull. That way carry gets the lane creep gold & exp, and you get them from jungle. If you're not doing this, you're wasting a free resource and leeching EXP from carry even if you're not last hitting. That Meepo is correct (although he's an ass about it).

2. Pulling simply means you aggro the jungle creep and pull them into your lane creeps. This accomplishes 3 things:

A- Lane creeps die to jungle so you deny exp & gold for your enemy.

B- You also last-hit jungle creeps for gold/exp.

C- The lane creeps will go to that jungle spot instead of pushing the lane (safe for your carry).

3. Then what is the point of stacking? Well pulling a single camp will get destroyed by your 1 wave of lane creeps. Only 1 lane creep will die. This doesn't accomplish A & C. If you stack once, then 2 camps' worth of jungle creeps will destroy the lane creeps.

In higher level pubs, people commit trilane (1 mid, 1 offlane, 3 in safe lane). In trilane you MUST be pulling & stacking. Or all 3 of you will be level 2 forever. You should also be making kills or absolutely shut down the enemy offlane to make it worthwhile.

An effective pulling & stacking is very frustrating for the enemy player. They end up with minimal gold/exp and an entire wave or two are missing and the lane will be pulled to their tower all the time, making it dangerous for them to farm. The enemy can counter it by placing a ward nearby the pulling camp (blocks the spawn). But you can re-counter it by buying sentry and destroying that observer ward.

You should really learn this (not hard) because this isn't some hidden trick. P&Sing is an every day intermediate knowledge that happens in most games.

Fucking love this game. So much depth. Cheers.

 

[Zeze]

Ahh ok - so is this considered standard behavior in low-MMR pubs though? He wasn't exactly carrying anything with his craptastic score. Also do you still get exp if the lane creeps kill the neutral creeps, or do you hang around and last hit?

Depends on what you define low-MMR. It happens all the time.. probably except very low level.

Just being around the dead jungle creep gives you EXP. But you gotta last hit to get gold.

Since the jungle creep is neutral, the enemy also splits EXP with you if he's around. And a good enemy player would pester around the pulling process.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Ahh ok - so is this considered standard behavior in low-MMR pubs though? He wasn't exactly carrying anything with his craptastic score. Also do you still get exp if the lane creeps kill the neutral creeps, or do you hang around and last hit?

No. I think I'm solidly in the middle of Normal bracket, and I'm barely at the skill level where courier and wards are considered standard purchases for supports. Stacking and pulling is useful, but only if people know what to do when you stack and pull - i.e. your lane partner needs to know to tank and kite the creep wave to avoid tower damage, they need to know how to last hit under a tower, etc. A couple people I've played with either ask if I can stack and pull, or thank me when I do it, or do it themselves if I'm playing the carry, but AFAIK it's far from the norm at my level. But if you pull it off, it's a huge bonus if they have a farm-dependent hero, you're denying heaps of exp, much more than if you denied creeps in lane, and they're losing about 150-200g per wave, which is pretty big early game. Plus you get a bunch of extra exp and farm from killing off the neutral creeps.

One other thing that you can do is double-pulling. Because a single stack of the medium-size camp is not enough to kill an entire creep wave, something tricksy you can do is just as the original neutral camp is about to die, you pull another neutral camp into the creep wave. You use tangoes or a quelling blade to cut paths between the trees, and pull so that the creeps aggro the second neutral camp and follow them as well. You need to time this right, because if the neutrals arrive before the first camp is killed the lane creeps won't aggro onto the neutrals and they'll just run back to their own camp. If you do it too late, the lane creeps will have killed off the neutrals and run back into the lane before the neutrals get there.

The advantage of this is that you don't need to wait to double-stack, but the disadvantages are that it's a lot more difficult and requires some pretty good timing and judgment, it requires more management (so if you get pulled away by a gank opportunity your creeps survive and push the lane forward), and it wastes tangoes, or 225g if you buy a quelling blade and you're a support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL0UOJIsFwU

The video's from dota 1, but the same principle applies. You can see that he completely screws up the third pull so two(?) creeps go back to the wave. And if you watch the mini-map, they get back into the lane right after the next creep wave, so that will result in a super-strong wave which will push even more than if he had just left the equilibrium to its own devices. Also, the reason he had to triple-pull in the first place is that he autoattacked the neutral creeps. If you don't, and just last hit the neutrals and start attacking the lane creeps when they're below half-health, normally only a double pull is required.

 

[LucJoe]

Depends on what you define low-MMR. It happens all the time.. probably except very low level.

Just being around the dead jungle creep gives you EXP. But you gotta last hit to get gold.

Since the jungle creep is neutral, the enemy also splits EXP with you if he's around. And a good enemy player would pester around the pulling process.

What? Pretty sure the enemy will only get EXP if they score the last hit on the jungle creep. If the last hit is scored by you or your own creep wave, the enemy, even if they are in range, gets nothing.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

What? Pretty sure the enemy will only get EXP if they score the last hit on the jungle creep. If the last hit is scored by you or your own creep wave, the enemy, even if they are in range, gets nothing.

That's what I thought too. If they get the last hit, you get nothing. If you get the last hit, they get nothing.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

http://www.twitch.tv/d2l/b/420047234?t=1h6m

Amazing game betweeen Na'vi vs Fnatic. The reddit is exploding over this. Grab a drink and enjoy the match.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1gtilf/d2l_navi_v_fnatic_holy_shit/?sort=top

video is 3 hours long.
where should I ff to for the good stuff?

 

[Destiny]

video is 3 hours long.
where should I ff to for the good stuff?

The very last awesome battle in Slow motion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6fXE2xfP9g&feature=youtu.be

 

[Ayrahvon]

Oh hey, AT plays dota! Stack pulling is a must in pretty much any lane with hard carry support combo. Stacking is vital to the pull because if you do not stack you'll actually push the lane.

Even with a stacked creep camp, do not hit the jungle creeps except to last hit. The idea is to deny your entire set of creeps so the other team does not get XP and so that your lane stays close to tower.

I do not know what level you think you're playing at, but I would say 9/10 games I play have at the very least a courier at start, usually wards as well. It helps that I often play support in pub games.

If people want to group just pm for my steam account name (actually I think it's the same as this).

 

[{bad}]

having super easy games from last 3 days. opponents level so low
only 800-1000 wins sad.
no fun. m bored ;(

 

[Juddog]

Thanks for the info; sounds like I will have some fun strategies to start learning!

 

[DrunkenSano]

Ahh ok - so is this considered standard behavior in low-MMR pubs though? He wasn't exactly carrying anything with his craptastic score. Also do you still get exp if the lane creeps kill the neutral creeps, or do you hang around and last hit?

Meepo is a hard hero in general and if a carry has a slow start, it can snowball in the later game. That's why carry heroes get priority over last hits and is babysat in the beginning of the game.

 

[{bad}]

@Zeze can u give me link to ur dotabuff profile