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[Mr. Pedantic]

First of all, what is your suggestion regarding the problem of hero choice? Is there a mode that lets you pick a hero and start with full gold as if you went random? Otherwise it's just going to be you with a random hero vs my random hero and i'll probably get meepo or some crap and the test won't prove anything.

Also, I don't play 1v1. If I did, I wouldn't buy a RoH. I recognize the need for a courier, and I buy one if nobody else on my team is willing or able. In a 1v1 I'd never be able to start with a RoH.

Additionally, I think player skill counts for a lot more than item choice. This really proves nothing.



And as far as your "I've laid it out how you will be totally outlaned", you ignored the actual hp regeneration of the RoH.

Here is a more realistic scenario.

You trade hits, the RoH guy takes 3-4 more damage because of your vastly superior items, but 7 seconds later he is fully healed from regen while you are still down 20 hp from max. Repeat a couple times, RoH guy is still at max hp, you are down by 100 hp. You use a tango. Repeat a couple more times, you use another tango. Repeat a few more, you use your last tango. Continued harras slowly brings you down 250 hp from max. You think about using salve, your jungle ganks me and my jungle ganks you, I escape because my hp was topped off with the RoH, you also escape because of your higher max hp, but your salve is disrupted and now you have no more consumables.

Ah, but you can buy more with the courier! Problem is, so can I. No matter what you do from this point, your hp regen is 5 per second lower than mine. As we level up, stats from levels and damage from spells makes that 5-6 point stat boost you had at the start smaller and smaller as time goes on. You are forced to spend hundreds of gold on additional tango to keep your hp topped off, while mine are topped off for free due to the RoH.

Ultimately, I recognize your basic point- tango and stats gives you a stronger start. The problem is, if harass is constant, that benefit only lasts for the first minute of the game before you run out of consumables. The red potion in LoL was a popular first item for players who just wanted to dominate the first couple minutes, but it was always a gamble. If you couldn't press your advantage and take first blood with the potion you were almost always left behind later when it ran out and you had nothing to show for it. I feel that going mass branches + tangos is a similar sort of strategy. If you can capitalize on it, it's great and it pays off. If you can't, you eventually sell the branches at a loss, and burn multitudes of tangos on regen just to stay in lane, and after 5 minutes you are actually behind on gold.

Your argument seems to be that you will ALWAYS win your lane. I can't see how you could honestly expect to win it more than about 50% of the time, if you are winning it every time then you should be in v high elo or on a pro team, not wasting your time in pugs. My argument is that roh lets me win my lane sometimes, but even if I don't win my lane I can still sustain myself and have hp available for when my jungle or mid lane can come over and go for a gank. If I was hugging the tower and spending all my gold on tangos that just won't be nearly as easy.

If you're laning against another hero 1v1 you should never be the only person hitting a creep. Every time you last hit, unless you've zoned your opponent out of the lane, your opponent should be trying to deny you. EVERY SINGLE TIME. The reason +stats(and by extension, +damage) is better than +hp/s is because it helps you last hit. Against a good opponent, the only last hits and denies you should be getting where you're down 10 damage in the early game is when he screws up. You said you'll buy more regen with the courier; in a situation like this, you won't have gold for it.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I'm coming to the face the fact that I think I'm going to be bad at this game forever.

 

[BergeLSU]

I'm at 25 minutes looking for a match now. I don't know what would change to cause this, but it seems to be happening to a lot of people. Could the servers be filled?

 

[Destiny]

Dota 2 Beta is now OVER!

Game Page: http://bit.ly/186ZKGm
Beta Is Over: http://www.dota2.com/thebetaisover/

The DOTA 2 i've been playing - do i still need to update to the non-beta version?

 

[CWRMadcat]

Nope. I've won 259 games, lost 251, and I have 3 abandons due to my FIOS line going bad a couple weekends ago. I have lost 3 games of my last 10.

WIN skeleton king 6-3-4 second highest level on my team, 3rd highest in game
LOSS medusa 9-7-8 second highest level on my team, 5th highest level overall
WIN clinkz 6-0-2 highest level in the game
WIN juggernaut 7-1-9 second highest level in the game
LOSS spirit breaker 10-11-12 highest level on my team, 5th highest overall
WIN spirit breaker 2-2-9 lowest level on my team, but higher than the entire enemy team, because i was out of lane and ganking after early game

I know DOTA 2. I am not a pro, and I don't play with a premade team, but I know how to play the game and I am not just slipping by and winning games because of landing in lucky teams- I know what I am doing and I carry or enable my team's carry to win in the majority of games I play.

If you think using the bonus random gold on a naked RoH opener is actually good in any capacity, you really don't know what you're doing.

You get 853 gold for randoming. You can either buy a RoH (technically you're 22 gold short but whatever), or you can buy a set of tangos (90), a salve (100), bracer/wraith/talisman (525/485/470), and 2-3 branches (106-159) for a full inventory. You'll come out with a full inventory of items, a +11-12 damage advantage, in addition to a larger hp and mana pool.

You might scoff at a mere 11-12 damage advantage, but it is huge. For certain heroes like shadowfiend, that damage makes all the difference for picking up that early cs to stack souls for necromastery, which then ramps up your damage so quickly that lane domination becomes even easier. The same thought process can be applied to pretty much any other hero that actually needs items. With supports you're better off spending bonus gold on upgrading the courier.

You're way too fixated on the +5 hp/sec healing provided by the RoH in perpetuity without realizing that it's largely irrelevant. The tango + salve combo is standard because it's just the right amount of healing in the early laning phase. Even if we assume your RoH keeps you topped off, you're going to fall behind in cs to your opponent. The early cs your opponent gets will translate into other items that will push you further behind (i.e. bottle).

Even if you want regeneration, there are better items to do that. Tranquil boots cost you 975 and give you ms, armor, regen, and a triggered heal. RoH builds into mostly very expensive situational items.

You say that you win with naked RoH, but all that really tells me is that your opponents are really bad.

 

[Destiny]

What is this RoH you guys are debating over?

 

[Destiny]

love it when 2-3 party members get owned whole game and then tart blaming teammates for their mistakes, u didn't ward in wrong lane, mid didn't gank at vlv 3 etc etc

I had a strangely toxic day yesterday, too. Every game had over the top ragers in it, either on my team or the other.

The worst was a game where I was Lion, and I somehow got solo hard lane against a tri-lane, so naturally I was underleveled and zero farm. I died a lot, but against a farmed Huskar and Slark, that is sort of to be expected. I bought countless Obs and Sentries, but our Leshrac raged at me the entire time, because early on, I wouldnt Ult a Huskar who was at 25% hp. He wouldn't accept that it would have ended up doing about 100 damage to him, and we had no one around that did physical damage. I Hexed him and ran away, and Leshrac died trying to stay around too long.

We ended up winning that match, and he was still raging about me.

Similar things happened all night, like the Broodmother who raged at her team as they lost, even though I randomed KotL (-AR). She was fed by the lane early (Veno requested that lane with Skeleton King).

Its summer... College students, high school students, and grade school students are out = more ragers and annoying players during this time of year.

I'd much rather see Lina in a support role, than a priority farmer. As a support, she can flourish because she has a good stun (if you are not awful and can land it) and decent burst damage for a single target. You basically set up free kills every R cool down after 6. And come late game, you have a good burst to help take out their carry (or biggest problem).

And even with farm, I can't see Lina being a better choice than almost any other mid hero. And against a Nxy, you shouldn't win mid. Nxy has a better (easier to land) stun, a mana burn, and a superior last hitting ability. You're either spamming the creep wave with your dragon fire losing lane control or you're getting no farm at all.

And bottle first item is universally awful from my experience. Sure, you get the regen, but you lose out on stats (which are way more important early game) and if you aren't awful, the bottle would be purchased around the 2 minute mark anyway.

I play Lina as mainly support - then maybe a carry mid to late if our carry sucks...

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

What is this RoH you guys are debating over?

Ring of Health

The thing is that random starting gold is 853g, whereas the cost of the RoH is 875g. With normal starting gold (603), you'd need several last hits to get enough money for it. But with random gold if you bought just the Ring of Health without anything else, then you could get enough money for it conceivably before the first wave of creeps started fighting each other.

If you think using the bonus random gold on a naked RoH opener is actually good, you really don't know what you're doing.

You get 853 gold for randoming. You can either buy a RoH (technically you're 22 gold short but whatever), or you can buy a set of tangos (90), a salve (100), bracer/wraith/talisman (525/485/470), and 2-3 branches (106-159) for a full inventory. You'll come out with a full inventory of items, a +11-12 damage advantage, in addition to a larger hp and mana pool.

You might scoff at a mere 11-12 damage advantage, but it is huge. For certain heroes like shadowfiend, that damage makes all the difference for picking up that early cs to stack souls for necromastery, which then ramps up your damage so quickly that lane domination becomes even easier. The same thought process can be applied to pretty much any other hero that actually needs items. With supports you're better off spending bonus gold on upgrading the courier.

You're way too fixated on the +5 hp/sec healing provided by the RoH in perpetuity without realizing that it's largely irrelevant. The tango + salve combo is standard because it's just the right amount of healing in the early laning phase. Even if we assume your RoH keeps you topped off, you're going to fall behind in cs to your opponent. The early cs your opponent gets will translate into other items that will push you further behind (i.e. bottle).

Even if you want regeneration, there are better items to do that. Tranquil boots cost you 975 and give you ms, armor, regen, and a triggered heal. RoH builds into mostly very expensive situational items.

You say that you win with naked RoH, but all that really tells me is that your opponents are really bad.

^This.

 

[CWRMadcat]

What is this RoH you guys are debating over?

Not to nitpick, but there's really no debate here. Opening RoH is bad, period.

 

[z1ggy]

I'm coming to the face the fact that I think I'm going to be bad at this game forever.

This. I am only good with sand king and sniper so far. Every time I try another hero I just get owned because I don't really know how to play them.

Are there any hero's that are fairly strong, but easy to get to know very well? I played the centuar warrunner last night and I did fairly well with him.

The part that gets hard for me is what items to buy for certain characters. I seem to just buy the same weapons upgrades for strength focused hero's and then the same ones for intel. focused casting hero's.

:-/ help.

 

[{bad}]

new heroes


https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1005182_10151459149316507_28866463_n.jpg

 

[Zeze]

new heroes


https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1005182_10151459149316507_28866463_n.jpg

Holy cow! Today is the patch day. At least one of these would be released yes?

PCGamer's recent article also confirmed there will be at least 1 more hero released before TI3.

 

[{bad}]

@Zeze

do u follow him???

https://www.facebook.com/wykrhmreddy

 

[{bad}]

The DOTA 2 i've been playing - do i still need to update to the non-beta version?

no there would be normal update, similar to weekly update

 

[Chiropteran]

If you think using the bonus random gold on a naked RoH opener is actually good in any capacity, you really don't know what you're doing.

You get 853 gold for randoming. You can either buy a RoH (technically you're 22 gold short but whatever), or you can buy a set of tangos (90), a salve (100), bracer/wraith/talisman (525/485/470), and 2-3 branches (106-159) for a full inventory. You'll come out with a full inventory of items, a +11-12 damage advantage, in addition to a larger hp and mana pool.

You might scoff at a mere 11-12 damage advantage, but it is huge. For certain heroes like shadowfiend, that damage makes all the difference for picking up that early cs to stack souls for necromastery, which then ramps up your damage so quickly that lane domination becomes even easier. The same thought process can be applied to pretty much any other hero that actually needs items. With supports you're better off spending bonus gold on upgrading the courier.

You're way too fixated on the +5 hp/sec healing provided by the RoH in perpetuity without realizing that it's largely irrelevant. The tango + salve combo is standard because it's just the right amount of healing in the early laning phase. Even if we assume your RoH keeps you topped off, you're going to fall behind in cs to your opponent. The early cs your opponent gets will translate into other items that will push you further behind (i.e. bottle).

Even if you want regeneration, there are better items to do that. Tranquil boots cost you 975 and give you ms, armor, regen, and a triggered heal. RoH builds into mostly very expensive situational items.

You say that you win with naked RoH, but all that really tells me is that your opponents are really bad.

See, this is a more reasonable explanation, but you are still exaggerating the difference.

Where do you get 11-12 damage? Wraith band, if you are an agi hero, is +6 damage. If you somehow had 5 branches + wraith band, that is 11 damage, but then you have no slots for tango or salve. If you are bringing tango AND salve, which all of these hypothetical scenarios include, you can only carry 3 branches and at best you are looking at +9 damage.

I feel like you are really exaggerating the effect of a little extra damage. Okay, so you take your optimal build, and instead of doing 45 damage per autoattack you are doing 54. It's easier to last hit and deny, I get that. But I do not see it translating into you winning the lane for free every time.

Level 1 drow aura gives every ranged ally a free 5 or so damage, does having a drow on your team guarantee that every lane with a ranged wins their lane? Not at all, I hardly even notice the difference when I have a drow on my team. 9 damage might be more than 5, but it's still not that huge.

I'm fully aware of how a solo lane deny and last hitting work together, I got destroyed one game by someone who denied nearly every last hit I was trying to make, while taking all of his. But guess what? I had a wrath band + branches start. In my experience the hero with the faster attack animation and superior lane presence can always win the last hit/deny war, a small difference in damage is almost never enough to matter.

In the scheme of things, it rarely makes a difference as well. I'm doing 46 damage, you are doing 54. Minion at 1 hp, we both kill it in one hit, 2 hp same, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 etc all the way up to 46 and we are still both killing it in one hit. Then looking at the minions at 55 hp 56 hp 57 hp etc all the way up to 92 hp and neither of us can kill it in one hit, but it will die after two combined hits from either of us. Now, the damage bonus does make a difference with the minions that have more than 46 hp but less than 55 hp, but nobody will ever convince me that every single minion is going to sit at those exact hp levels long enough to be last hit or denied.

The extra damage is a bonus, it helps, but I don't see it making or breaking the game. If it did, then drow would be a crucial 1st pick or ban every single professional game, because that extra 5-6 damage for every ranged ally would guarantee your entire team wins their lanes. No, a little damage doesn't guarantee that you win the game, other stats, included hp regeneration, do actually matter.


As far as tranquil boots, I like them but you can't start lane with them no matter what you do, and they aren't late game viable like linkin's is so I'd eventually be selling back the parts in most games. The extra 22 gold for a RoH is gained before the first minion waves even meet, so you can easily have it in lane from the very start of the game.

 

[Zeze]

This. I am only good with sand king and sniper so far. Every time I try another hero I just get owned because I don't really know how to play them.

Are there any hero's that are fairly strong, but easy to get to know very well? I played the centuar warrunner last night and I did fairly well with him.

The part that gets hard for me is what items to buy for certain characters. I seem to just buy the same weapons upgrades for strength focused hero's and then the same ones for intel. focused casting hero's.

:-/ help.

Check out the guides on the first post of this thread. They're very helpful (especially the first one).

Ring of Health is a great opening. It allows you to... nah just kidding. It's garbage. :awe:

You should be abusing low-skill, high-impact heroes that make a big difference in game and allow you to have fun also:

1. Vengeful Spirit: Stun is very annoying and deadly. Aura is passive and the AOE-vision skill is good for scouting ahead and giving -armor. Simple as that. Even in high level pubs, she's very annoying with spammable stun (just click stun), always interrupting the right moment and landing kills.

For items you should abuse the cheap, value items that will give you amazing advantage ahead of enemies who don't do so- Wand, Aquila, Drums, Urn, etc. Venge is actually a hard support (wards, smoke, deward), but this may be bad in low level pubs where no one will appreciate or take advantage of those. Load up on the cheap items and start killing with Venge. Great way to get more feel of the game.

2. Sand King: Your SK is correct. He's very good with his instant-cast stun and spammable invisibility. His poison zones out melee enemies very well & give you lots of gold in low levels pubs. His stun is bit of a skill shot- you can target stun OR do it wisely to land multiple targets- which is devastating. It's a good way to learn skill shots. Get Urn, Wand, Arcane, and later on Dagger to start practicing.

3. Venomancer: Very very good presence. He outlanes far better than above two. The passive is deadly, and the nuke/slow is the best slow in the game from level 1. You can nuke, then right click with poison to watch them squirm terribly. Very easy to land kills with. Use ward skill to scout. Get similar items as Venge. But he's originally a support.

4. Tidehunter: Very beefy, and his third skill is very annoying & spammable. First skill is a classic nuke + slow for killing. His second skill is a simple damage block and from level 2, you take 0 damage from lane creeps. Ultimate is simple enough to use and makes a big difference. Buy Wand, Urn, Arcane, & Pipe/Mek. Dagger too if you're up for it. His Kraken Shield actually works indepently with Stout Shield. If you're heavily harassed, get buy it, and get 1 pt in the skill = you will mitigate lots of punishment while you dish out damage with the 3rd skill.

5. Dragon Knight: It takes moderate knowledge to play a carry (last hit, denying, farming efficiently, late game item choices, winning for your team), but you gotta start somewhere yes? DK is an excellent hero for this because of his simple yet effective design (this is why he's a tutorial hero!). He has an easy stun, easy nuke, and his passive is godly in low level games (allows you to stay in lane forever). Get Wand, Urn, Treads/Phase, Drums. Soul Ring by 12 mins~ is good since he's badly mana-crippled and the regen + your passive = godly regen. Then get BKB, Helm of the Dominator, and any 4th tier power item as you see fit (Daedalus, MKB, Assault Cuirass, etc).

Start from there! Other similar heroes are, Ancient Apparition, Sven, Nyx, Bounty Hunter, Crystal Maiden, Lina, Disruptor, Lich, Lion, Witch Doctor, Dazzle, Shadow Demon, Outworld Destroyer. Play against bots so you can infinitely do whatever you want to learn all spells and heroes, and restart/leave whenever you want. ('Create a Lobby' button)

Sniper should be avoided because he's a really bad hero despite his simplicity. It actually takes moderate skill to know when to farm & hide/run away by watching the map constantly, and how to zone constantly. Otherwise he's a 480hp fool with zero nuke, zero slow, and zero escape. Avoid him for now. The heroes I've named will pubstomp so hard in your games.

Good luck!

 

[Zeze]

See, this is a more reasonable explanation, but you are still exaggerating the difference.

Where do you get 11-12 damage? Wraith band, if you are an agi hero, is +6 damage. If you somehow had 5 branches + wraith band, that is 11 damage, but then you have no slots for tango or salve. If you are bringing tango AND salve, which all of these hypothetical scenarios include, you can only carry 3 branches and at best you are looking at +9 damage.

I feel like you are really exaggerating the effect of a little extra damage. Okay, so you take your optimal build, and instead of doing 45 damage per autoattack you are doing 54. It's easier to last hit and deny, I get that. But I do not see it translating into you winning the lane for free every time.

Level 1 drow aura gives every ranged ally a free 5 or so damage, does having a drow on your team guarantee that every lane with a ranged wins their lane? Not at all, I hardly even notice the difference when I have a drow on my team. 9 damage might be more than 5, but it's still not that huge.

I'm fully aware of how a solo lane deny and last hitting work together, I got destroyed one game by someone who denied nearly every last hit I was trying to make, while taking all of his. But guess what? I had a wrath band + branches start. In my experience the hero with the faster attack animation and superior lane presence can always win the last hit/deny war, a small difference in damage is almost never enough to matter.

In the scheme of things, it rarely makes a difference as well. I'm doing 46 damage, you are doing 54. Minion at 1 hp, we both kill it in one hit, 2 hp same, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 etc all the way up to 46 and we are still both killing it in one hit. Then looking at the minions at 55 hp 56 hp 57 hp etc all the way up to 92 hp and neither of us can kill it in one hit, but it will die after two combined hits from either of us. Now, the damage bonus does make a difference with the minions that have more than 46 hp but less than 55 hp, but nobody will ever convince me that every single minion is going to sit at those exact hp levels long enough to be last hit or denied.

The extra damage is a bonus, it helps, but I don't see it making or breaking the game. If it did, then drow would be a crucial 1st pick or ban every single professional game, because that extra 5-6 damage for every ranged ally would guarantee your entire team wins their lanes. No, a little damage doesn't guarantee that you win the game, other stats, included hp regeneration, do actually matter.


As far as tranquil boots, I like them but you can't start lane with them no matter what you do, and they aren't late game viable like linkin's is so I'd eventually be selling back the parts in most games. The extra 22 gold for a RoH is gained before the first minion waves even meet, so you can easily have it in lane from the very start of the game.

Just stop. No one agrees with you because you are wrong and you are stuck in the terribad mindset from your terribad games.

You will be utterly and hopelessly crushed in that build. It's not 10-15 dmg difference for god's sake. Why are you so dense? It's 40-60% difference in stats (HP, dmg, armor) between you and me. You will be hopelessly CRUSHED and outlaned.

LEARN TO READ THE EXACT MATH.

5. I came out with 36 more damage on top (132 - 96) AND your naked SF already have 303 HP left out of 435. I have 434 HP left out of 530 HP. Just at level 1 and 3 hits, I have 134 more HP than you out of your 303. That is NEAR DOUBLE your HP.

With 5 slots empty and 1 RoH, you'll just be chased away if you have red hp. Then it's red hp vs full hp. You'll be bullied away, further can't lasthit/deny.

Then what, wait 5 minutes to naturally heal? Or waste more time waiting for your courier? LOL.

He doesn't understand these things. That's why he's ignorant. I can't believe he made us write a thesis full of explanation in past 100 replies. He must be trolling.

Your garbage RoH will be owned by Tango and Salve's burst heal. You're too scared to be proven wrong in-game, yet you continue to spew this ignorance. Pick one or shut up.

You don't notice this because you play in terrible games where it works. It falls flat on your face anything above it. No one agrees with you- for a reason.

 

[{bad}]

so who all got mythical bloodstone???

 

[Zeze]

 

[Chiropteran]

Just stop. No one agrees with you because you are wrong and you are stuck in the terribad mindset from your terribad games.

Lies and dogma won't change anyone's mindset. I could care less if anyone agrees with me, if there is no evidence or explanation for something I don't beleive it. This isn't some stupid popularity contest. If it was, LoL would be kicking Dota 2's butt BTW You for one should realize that the majority is often WRONG.

You will be utterly and hopelessly crushed in that build. It's not 10-15 dmg difference for god's sake. Why are you so dense? It's 40-60% difference in stats (HP, dmg, armor) between you and me. You will be hopelessly CRUSHED and outlaned.

First You claimed it was double. Now you are claiming it's a 40-60% difference. I'm sorry, but in the actual game based on real math, not the made up fake math you are using, the difference is really only about 20-25% at best for most heroes. For a hero with higher starting hp like Axe, the difference is even lower, 16% And that is at level 1, each level up and the difference gets smaller.

Your garbage RoH will be owned by Tango and Salve's burst heal. You're too scared to be proven wrong in-game, yet you continue to spew this ignorance. Pick one or shut up.

For such a smart guy, you really should have learned this fact by now.

I'll clue you in to my little top secret tech:

You can use a tango while wearing a RoH. Yes, the RoH does *not* disable the usage of tango, despite your lies. RoH also doesn't disable the use of salve. No matter what you do with your build, I can do the same, with my RoH, and I'll have that extra 5 hp per second regen on top of the regen from the tango or salve.

Funny thing is, other posters are starting to convince my RoH isn't that good. I will still continue to test it and use it on the heroes I find it works well on, but I'm going to take a more critical eye to it. But that is beside the point. Whether the RoH is a good item or not doesn't change that your entire argument is pure BS and lies.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Having played the original DotA a LOT back in the day, the only thing I find disappointing so far is the forced roles, skill builds, and item builds (and NO exceptions!) that some people feel various heroes need to have.

Yes, some heroes are inherently better at certain things, and there are some heroes that simply aren't going to fill a roll no matter how hard they try. There are some items that are just pointless on some heroes / builds. However, I've seen too many people question someone for not going with a cookie-cutter build and trying something different. Today's different may be tomorrow's cookie-cutter; it's only a game, let people experiment.

I should specify, this has nothing to do with the RoH debate going on.

 

[BergeLSU]

You can use a tango while wearing a RoH. Yes, the RoH does *not* disable the usage of tango, despite your lies. RoH also doesn't disable the use of salve. No matter what you do with your build, I can do the same, with my RoH, and I'll have that extra 5 hp per second regen on top of the regen from the tango or salve.

Where are you getting your tango? You spent your money on your RoH.

If you are someone who uses an un-upgraded courier to bring you just a set of tangos, then ZeZe might be right about you.

If you are on the side line, your goal is to never use the courier unless you for some reason are completely boxed out of the side shop.

 

[Zeze]

Lies and dogma won't change anyone's mindset. I could care less if anyone agrees with me, if there is no evidence or explanation for something I don't beleive it. This isn't some stupid popularity contest. If it was, LoL would be kicking Dota 2's butt BTW You for one should realize that the majority is often WRONG.

Uh the majority IS the RoH noobs like you. The bottom 60-70% of low level skills think RoH naked is ever good. You are the majority noob. The people posted here are the minority. What a fool.

First You claimed it was double. Now you are claiming it's a 40-60% difference. I'm sorry, but in the actual game based on real math, not the made up fake math you are using, the difference is really only about 20-25% at best for most heroes. For a hero with higher starting hp like Axe, the difference is even lower, 16% And that is at level 1, each level up and the difference gets smaller.

You have brain damage. I gave you the actual REAL math. How the hell is this made-up fake math? You are TROLLING or immensely stupid. It is 100% real math. I just realized you didn't even read my math post because of your blind pride.

You can use a tango while wearing a RoH. Yes, the RoH does *not* disable the usage of tango, despite your lies. RoH also doesn't disable the use of salve. No matter what you do with your build, I can do the same, with my RoH, and I'll have that extra 5 hp per second regen on top of the regen from the tango or salve.

Look at the confirmation bias. You are so just absolute garbage who can't even perform basic thinking. Only the biggest noobs will spend whopping 965g on RoH + Tango with 0 stats. Your stupidity is giving me cancer.

Do I have to write out about burst heal on hand vs waiting for your courier? What about the double the stats I have? It's obvious you didn't even read the entirely accurate math I wrote out. I'm wasting my time.

Funny thing is, other posters are starting to convince my RoH isn't that good.

Only fools and total trash tier like you get RoH on Axe. Axe now gets Tranquil which gives him infinite heal + fast ms + decent armor. No one gets RoH on Axe anymore sans bottom tier pubs like you.

Whether the RoH is a good item or not doesn't change that your entire argument is pure BS and lies.

What. the. fvck? Do you happen to be a fundamental Christian too?

I will still continue to test it and use it on the heroes I find it works well on, but I'm going to take a more critical eye to it. But that is beside the point.

Finally. It's obvious you know it yourself that you're wrong or starting to get the feel that you're bad. This is probably the best validation you will give to us here in a typical internet fashion. I'm glad we taught you something.

 

[z1ggy]

@ Zeze-

Thanks!!! I will start there for now. Probably write what u said down so I can refer back to it in game lol.

and PS I watched a Sniper for 41-1 last night in a pub game.. It was nuts.

 

[smackababy]

@ Zeze-

Thanks!!! I will start there for now. Probably write what u said down so I can refer back to it in game lol.

and PS I watched a Sniper for 41-1 last night in a pub game.. It was nuts.

It is strange you're good on Sniper. He has one of the best last hits (probably the best ranged), but he has no real escape mechanic and requires a good bit of build up to be a dominating carry.

If you're really interested, at low level pubs, Riki is really good. At 6, you get perma invis (which pubs are awful at countering) and once you get Diffusal Blade, you pretty much dominate. The good thing about him, is you don't need a ton of farm early game, just levels. So, even if you are getting outlaned, as long as you can stay in XP range, you should be able to recover.