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[{bad}]

Hey, can someone give me some advice?

I was laning against Zeus as Tinker. Normal starting gold, so I got a Mantle, a branch and a salve + tango, trying to semi-rush a bottle. Zeus got a bottle.

I thought I would be able to get enough last hits to get a bottle within the first couple minutes. I actually did alright in last hits against the Zeus, he wasn't focused on last hits so much as harassing me. He got Lightning Bolt first, and he'd use it on me whenever it was on cooldown, using the bottle for regen. I was maxing laser and rockets so I traded with him for a while, but his nuke was stronger with less mana, and he had more health than me anyway, so I ended up running through my regen really fast, couldnt get enough last hits to get an early bottle, then when Spirit Breaker started ganking mid things really started going downhill.

In the end we lost, I ended up being 1-16-3 and I had to just jungle ancients for 15 minutes because whenever I showed up in a lane Spirit Breaker would dive and basically 2-shot me. Probably my worst game since I was new and had no idea what I was doing.

So what should I do in the future when I'm mid against Zeus to prevent this kind of thing?

ID - 248314025. It's really embarrassing.

if u get any spammer against u 1st thing to do is get magic band,

best way to deni bottle advantage to mid is by not letting him get any runes, if he gets no rune he has to use courier for that which is not bad because u have runes and u get more advantage.

don't try to exchange blow for blow. if he spams on you you don't have to spam on him at same time. try 2 rocket him when he has already used bottle so that he has to use it again. if u use it after he has just spammed then he get mana + hp with one use. if he has just use bottle to replenish mana and u spam on him he will use bottle again get hp back. that 2 spams less on u.

if u start losing mid best thing to do is gank some other lane, u were mid so u have more level than others and tinker has pretty good nuke and he can gank anytime after level 3. get rune and keep ganking other lanes. e1 if u don't kill u send sme1 base and your team wins that lane.

if u think u can't leave mid to free farm then ask supports to gank mid, that can help.

bara normally works when he finds you alone so try to stick, or atleast don't stay in their vision because he will charge always lowest hp and keep an eye on map. he will pass through wards.

i didn't watch match but in similar situation what i do is stay with team behind towers and spam march machine and farm. march machine can be really hard to push into especially at t3.

if bara can't c u he will charge some1 else. thats your chance to kill. or other team will come for twrs and bara will jump in m sure of that. all tinker can do in situations like this is hide inside trees and spam rockets.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

if u get any spammer against u 1st thing to do is get magic band,

best way to deni bottle advantage to mid is by not letting him get any runes, if he gets no rune he has to use courier for that which is not bad because u have runes and u get more advantage.

don't try to exchange blow for blow. if he spams on you you don't have to spam on him at same time. try 2 rocket him when he has already used bottle so that he has to use it again. if u use it after he has just spammed then he get mana + hp with one use. if he has just use bottle to replenish mana and u spam on him he will use bottle again get hp back. that 2 spams less on u.

if u start losing mid best thing to do is gank some other lane, u were mid so u have more level than others and tinker has pretty good nuke and he can gank anytime after level 3. get rune and keep ganking other lanes. e1 if u don't kill u send sme1 base and your team wins that lane.

if u think u can't leave mid to free farm then ask supports to gank mid, that can help.

bara normally works when he finds you alone so try to stick, or atleast don't stay in their vision because he will charge always lowest hp and keep an eye on map. he will pass through wards.

i didn't watch match but in similar situation what i do is stay with team behind towers and spam march machine and farm. march machine can be really hard to push into especially at t3.

if bara can't c u he will charge some1 else. thats your chance to kill. or other team will come for twrs and bara will jump in m sure of that. all tinker can do in situations like this is hide inside trees and spam rockets.

I thought about getting a wand...

Our team was kind of dysfunctional. I tried denying runes and stuff, but he'd just nuke me to death. I guess I should have moved to the rune spots earlier, but we didn't have any wards (another mistake) and I was worried about losing last hits and exp while guessing where the rune was.

Bara didn't need to find me alone to kill me, I was with someone else mid near T2 and he just rolled up, killed me, and walked out, with the other guy just standing round watching. Literally as soon as I started hitting an enemy creep he'd charge. Didn't have BoT so I couldn't TP out, and if he hit me I'd die.

Yeah, I should have ganked another lane or asked for a gank. And the bottle thing is good. Though, if I nuked him after he used the bottle, he'd just nuke me again then use the bottle. I didn't have enough to kill him at any time, so he was just free to do that whenever he wanted.

I maxed laser and rockets till Level 6, then got Rearm then march. Should I have gotten a level of March earlier? I couldn't stand up in a nuke war anyway, and would a level of March have helped?

 

[{bad}]

I thought about getting a wand...

Our team was kind of dysfunctional. I tried denying runes and stuff, but he'd just nuke me to death. I guess I should have moved to the rune spots earlier, but we didn't have any wards (another mistake) and I was worried about losing last hits and exp while guessing where the rune was.

Bara didn't need to find me alone to kill me, I was with someone else mid near T2 and he just rolled up, killed me, and walked out, with the other guy just standing round watching. Literally as soon as I started hitting an enemy creep he'd charge. Didn't have BoT so I couldn't TP out, and if he hit me I'd die.

Yeah, I should have ganked another lane or asked for a gank. And the bottle thing is good. Though, if I nuked him after he used the bottle, he'd just nuke me again then use the bottle. I didn't have enough to kill him at any time, so he was just free to do that whenever he wanted.

I maxed laser and rockets till Level 6, then got Rearm then march. Should I have gotten a level of March earlier? I couldn't stand up in a nuke war anyway, and would a level of March have helped?

there are 2 ways normally people play mid solo tinker, one if which i prefer take laser and rocket, and start ganking from lvl 3. normally i try 2 spot rune and if i get something like haste or invi i will go and gank.
if you are part of 4-5 kills then u can easily get BOT within 12 mins e1 if u don't have too many creeps.

and other way is taking march machine and 1 lvl laser then rockets. people nomally do this when they think they won't be able to compete mid with last hits , maybe when sme1 like bat is there. normally what i do is spam march machine when creep wave reaches my twr. and stay behind it. then i go 1st camp of neutrals or ancients and pull them at 53rd sec so that they stack. so i get lvl and farm from both ncs and lane. when i get lvl 3 march machine + ulti + soul ring i start killing camp and recover all gold and xp i have lost in lanes. there is a youtube video on this also you should check it out.

if m sentinel i stack ancient , i noramlly pull them toward rune this way i get to spot rune also and stack ancient also. this way you can get at around 10 mins, if u don't die

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

there are 2 ways normally people play mid solo tinker, one if which i prefer take laser and rocket, and start ganking from lvl 3. normally i try 2 spot rune and if i get something like haste or invi i will go and gank.
if you are part of 4-5 kills then u can easily get BOT within 12 mins e1 if u don't have too many creeps.

and other way is taking march machine and 1 lvl laser then rockets. people nomally do this when they think they won't be able to compete mid with last hits , maybe when sme1 like bat is there. normally what i do is spam march machine when creep wave reaches my twr. and stay behind it. then i go 1st camp of neutrals or ancients and pull them at 53rd sec so that they stack. so i get lvl and farm from both ncs and lane. when i get lvl 3 march machine + ulti + soul ring i start killing camp and recover all gold and xp i have lost in lanes. there is a youtube video on this also you should check it out.

if m sentinel i stack ancient , i noramlly pull them toward rune this way i get to spot rune also and stack ancient also. this way you can get at around 10 mins, if u don't die

Interesting. What's so special about level 3? Do you get an extra laser?

So ancient pulling while in lane is only good on Radiant side?

 

[{bad}]

Interesting. What's so special about level 3? Do you get an extra laser?

So ancient pulling while in lane is only good on Radiant side?

laser should always be taken 1st if u are in lane, i forgot to mention is earlier that when u use laser on some1 his all attacks miss for 3 seconds.
so when bar charges you if you hit him with laser his all attack will miss for 3 sec and that can save you.

lvl 3 march machine bcoz u are mid, and you are using march machine there to farm when creeps reach twr. but when you reach lvl 6-7 and get 3 lvls on macrh machine you cn use it 3-4 times bcoz of soul ring. if you use it without soul ring then u won't have any mana 2 spam when creeps reach twr.

unusually i take
lvl1 : laser/march
lvl2: laser/march (which i didn't took at lvl 1)
lvl3 : march
lvl4: rocket
lvl5: march
lvl6: ulti(only if you have stacked ncs/ancients)
lvl7:march

at lvl 6-7 you should have atleast 4 stacks so use smoke and spam march machine using ulti and soul ring all creeps will die and give you gold and xp for BOT.

m at work right now will try 2 post video from youtube if i could find it.

 

[{bad}]

So ancient pulling while in lane is only good on Radiant side?

sry forgot 2 reply this one, on sentinel side they are right next to mid, so you can just go up hit them at 53rd sec and move toward rune from there you can spot rune and stack at same time.

but on radiant side this will not work bcoz ancient is toward bot lane, lvl and xp lost will be too much. normally i max laser and missile 1st if m radiant, but if i am really getting owned inside lane. i will take 1 lvl of march and try 2 use it at round 50 sec from t2 mid tow3ard ncs camp so that it just hit creeps in time and it gets stacked. later when i more stacks and lvl i try 2 recover all gold and xp. but this need practice i suggest you try to play 1st 10 mins 2-3 times with bots then only try it online, bcoz timing is important. you have to adjust push on lane so that lanes always pushed when you go toward t2 for pull.

another thing can be done is that you can bot people to stack ancient for you. mostly there is bot solo against tri lane and he is tower hugging. so he can easily do that. it doesn't have to be tacked everytime. e1 if he stacks it like 4 times in 12 mins its ok it will give you minimum 600 gold and he can also leech some xp. so its win-win for both of you.

just remember that if u max march rocket hide and spam them, if possible always use laser on dps, whenever he jumps to kill sme1. he will 100% attack for 3 seconds and your teammate will survive

 

[Zeze]

Amazing juke in a pro game. Juke CITY.

 

[Zeze]

Hey, can someone give me some advice?

I was laning against Zeus as Tinker. Normal starting gold, so I got a Mantle, a branch and a salve + tango, trying to semi-rush a bottle. Zeus got a bottle.

I thought I would be able to get enough last hits to get a bottle within the first couple minutes. I actually did alright in last hits against the Zeus, he wasn't focused on last hits so much as harassing me. He got Lightning Bolt first, and he'd use it on me whenever it was on cooldown, using the bottle for regen. I was maxing laser and rockets so I traded with him for a while, but his nuke was stronger with less mana, and he had more health than me anyway, so I ended up running through my regen really fast, couldnt get enough last hits to get an early bottle, then when Spirit Breaker started ganking mid things really started going downhill.

In the end we lost, I ended up being 1-16-3 and I had to just jungle ancients for 15 minutes because whenever I showed up in a lane Spirit Breaker would dive and basically 2-shot me. Probably my worst game since I was new and had no idea what I was doing.

So what should I do in the future when I'm mid against Zeus to prevent this kind of thing?

ID - 248314025. It's really embarrassing.

Bad games happen, don't take it too hard.

If you are 1-16-3, that doesn't always mean you are '1-16-3' bad. Dota is a game of snowballing. If you got shut down really badly, that's just what happens.

Score isn't everything. I played a game where enemy Lion was 1-12. But he basically won them the game because he would CONSTANTLY without fail stun me, hex me, burst me. He literally carried for the carry to carry (lol). That's the beauty of supports.

 

[Juddog]

I thought about getting a wand...

Our team was kind of dysfunctional. I tried denying runes and stuff, but he'd just nuke me to death. I guess I should have moved to the rune spots earlier, but we didn't have any wards (another mistake) and I was worried about losing last hits and exp while guessing where the rune was.

Bara didn't need to find me alone to kill me, I was with someone else mid near T2 and he just rolled up, killed me, and walked out, with the other guy just standing round watching. Literally as soon as I started hitting an enemy creep he'd charge. Didn't have BoT so I couldn't TP out, and if he hit me I'd die.

Yeah, I should have ganked another lane or asked for a gank. And the bottle thing is good. Though, if I nuked him after he used the bottle, he'd just nuke me again then use the bottle. I didn't have enough to kill him at any time, so he was just free to do that whenever he wanted.

I maxed laser and rockets till Level 6, then got Rearm then march. Should I have gotten a level of March earlier? I couldn't stand up in a nuke war anyway, and would a level of March have helped?

I always get a wand against a frequent spellcaster; free health & mana.

 

[Juddog]

this new update has totally ducked MM

if m not in party n getting such shitty teams,out of 3 games i played solo 2 ahd players with single digit matches

losing matches in 20 mins and finals scores are like 28-1, 35-5 etc

http://dotabuff.com/matches/247871346
http://dotabuff.com/matches/248826984
http://dotabuff.com/matches/248864713

but when m in party i won all 5 games and other team was really sad, and after 5 mins i felt like going afk, we e1 won 1 game 4 vs 5 when one of friend got dc after 11 mins.

can't they find an algo which creates balanced teams so that all 10 players can enjoy contest???

if this continues i think m gonna delete dota 2 or have 2 make smurf

I was in a few compendium matches over the weekend that were like this.

Given my account has 34 games - 17 wins, 17 losses, you'd think they would stick me in the team with the higher end players, but instead I had 2 different games where it seemed like all the noobs got stuffed into one team and all the higher end players got stuck into the other (e.g. players with 500+ games). Of course both games the noob teams got stomped hard.

 

[Chiropteran]

Hey, can someone give me some advice?

I was laning against Zeus as Tinker. Normal starting gold, so I got a Mantle, a branch and a salve + tango, trying to semi-rush a bottle. Zeus got a bottle.

I thought I would be able to get enough last hits to get a bottle within the first couple minutes. I actually did alright in last hits against the Zeus, he wasn't focused on last hits so much as harassing me. He got Lightning Bolt first, and he'd use it on me whenever it was on cooldown, using the bottle for regen. I was maxing laser and rockets so I traded with him for a while, but his nuke was stronger with less mana, and he had more health than me anyway, so I ended up running through my regen really fast, couldnt get enough last hits to get an early bottle, then when Spirit Breaker started ganking mid things really started going downhill.

In the end we lost, I ended up being 1-16-3 and I had to just jungle ancients for 15 minutes because whenever I showed up in a lane Spirit Breaker would dive and basically 2-shot me. Probably my worst game since I was new and had no idea what I was doing.

So what should I do in the future when I'm mid against Zeus to prevent this kind of thing?

ID - 248314025. It's really embarrassing.

Since I occasionally buy a RoH, I know my opinion means nothing.

But I have yet to see a proper spirit breaker fail to carry his team pretty damn far. Even as a "baddie" as zeze thinks I am, if I random or random draft into a spirit breaker I nearly always win, lifetime win rate 82% and that would actually be higher except the first couple games I used him I had no idea how charge of darkness worked and I was accidentally cancelling it before it hit.

I feel like if I get spirit breaker, I am almost guaranteed a win. If my team has some really dedicated feeders and/or AFKers it is still possible to lose, somewhat, but he is just such a strong hero it usually doesn't matter.

In turn, when I play against one I either have to specifically counter him (which I really don't have any idea how to, though linken's helps, another one of zeze's hated items).

Funny enough I tried making a bkb one game to counter spirit breaker, but all of his stuns went right through it. Funny how it's considered such a great item but in practice it has such glaring weaknesses, I'd have probably won that game if I made a linken's instead of a bkb. Now I know better.

Wards do not counter him in any way whatsoever. Knowing he is charging doesn't solve the problem, you are still forced to either play super passive and give up all hopes of farming the entire game, or you get ganked and die repeatedly.

 

[Zeze]

Since I occasionally buy a RoH, I know my opinion means nothing.

You got one thing right, finally.

Your opinion does mean nothing when you are RoH-bad and coupled with an awfully ignorant attitude.

if I random or random draft into a spirit breaker I nearly always win, lifetime win rate 82% and that would actually be higher except the first couple games I used him I had no idea how charge of darkness worked and I was accidentally cancelling it before it hit.

I feel like if I get spirit breaker, I am almost guaranteed a win.

You've been told over 20 times about this, and I don't expect miracles on the 21st time. Dota at your tier is entirely different than anyone at above-average games. SB was a trash tier up until his recent buffs over and over. He still can't carry and won't. He's at best, a great mid-game ganker + carry disabler (anti-BKB).

Funny enough I tried making a bkb one game to counter spirit breaker,

Wtf. Get BKB vs an anti-BKB hero, then blame BKB and me, LOL.

 

[CWRMadcat]

Hey, can someone give me some advice?

I was laning against Zeus as Tinker. Normal starting gold, so I got a Mantle, a branch and a salve + tango, trying to semi-rush a bottle. Zeus got a bottle.

I thought I would be able to get enough last hits to get a bottle within the first couple minutes. I actually did alright in last hits against the Zeus, he wasn't focused on last hits so much as harassing me. He got Lightning Bolt first, and he'd use it on me whenever it was on cooldown, using the bottle for regen. I was maxing laser and rockets so I traded with him for a while, but his nuke was stronger with less mana, and he had more health than me anyway, so I ended up running through my regen really fast, couldnt get enough last hits to get an early bottle, then when Spirit Breaker started ganking mid things really started going downhill.

In the end we lost, I ended up being 1-16-3 and I had to just jungle ancients for 15 minutes because whenever I showed up in a lane Spirit Breaker would dive and basically 2-shot me. Probably my worst game since I was new and had no idea what I was doing.

So what should I do in the future when I'm mid against Zeus to prevent this kind of thing?

ID - 248314025. It's really embarrassing.

There wasn't much you could personally do in this game. Your picks in general were terrible compared to theirs (Abaddon/AM/Tinker/Prophet/Naix) vs (Lion/SK/Zeus/Bane/SB).
Between the 5 of you there isn't a single true disable, compared to the other team with 5. Your only chance to win was to somehow avoid getting snowballed, but that's what happened.

The first huge mistake was no courier and no wards for one of the rune locations. The second mistake was a complete disregard for the 0:00 rune pop, not a single person from your team cared to even check for the 0:00 rune, so zeus just unloaded on you, then picked up the 0:00 rune spawn (a regeneration rune) at 0:45. That's why you felt so outclassed so early. Even then, you might have been able to get first blood on him if you had just stuck around and manned up when he came back with his rune. He did a really stupid approach through the river and ate your entire creep wave + you, but you backed off.

But really, your lanes were sort of a mess. The game was literally a 4v5 because your prophet was an imbecile that mindlessly jungled for a HoM he was never going to be able to use. He missed out on ganking zeus early, in addition to abandoning Naix to solo bot vs SB and Bane. It's a classic snowball game where it's a lot of little mistakes from your team seem to disproportionately affect you. Aside from the death you give up to Zeus ~4:00 (should have kept running), I don't know that there's much else you could have done.

 

[{bad}]

I was in a few compendium matches over the weekend that were like this.

Given my account has 34 games - 17 wins, 17 losses, you'd think they would stick me in the team with the higher end players, but instead I had 2 different games where it seemed like all the noobs got stuffed into one team and all the higher end players got stuck into the other (e.g. players with 500+ games). Of course both games the noob teams got stomped hard.

i was angry bcoz i have played 2500+ games and my team had played 2 games... how will that guy play people against 1k wins???

its impossible.. it took me 1 whole week 2 get hold of which heroes models and spell animations.

 

[Chiropteran]

You've been told over 20 times about this, and I don't expect miracles on the 21st time. Dota at your tier is entirely different than anyone at above-average games.

Wtf. Get BKB vs an anti-BKB hero, then blame BKB and me, LOL.

How the hell am I supposed to know? "Magic immunity" seems pretty clear, except oh if the magic is spirit breaker's magic charge ability, it doesn't actually count as magic? And if it is his magic ultimate, that doesn't count as magic? Excuse me that out of the 400 games I played, I never tried a bkb against spirit breaker until that one. Even looking at the Dota forums, it's obviously clear that BKB used to grant protection from spirit breaker's abilities and was just recently changed. Thus, even the game itself isn't consistent with what is protected by a bkb and what isn't.

Also, I was sure you said you had me ignored. I guess like most of your posts in this thread, it was just a lie.

Bottom line, just enjoy the game. Almost everyone has 50% winrate. The only exceptions are the very top (0.01%+). Even the pros have 53-57% winrate.

That's how MM works.

Dota at your tier is entirely different than anyone at above-average games.

Contradict yourself much? So according to Zeze, I should have nearly exactly 50% win rate. Everyone does! But also according to Zeze, 82% win rate on Spirit Breaker is COMPLETELY NORMAL in my tier.

You keep acting like there is something special about my tier, yet 80% of all Dota 2 players are in it. That is the vast majority. Basically, the strategies and techniques that work in my tier work for nearly everyone, while Zeze's elitist ideas don't really even apply to the average Dota 2 game, because they only actually work in the top 20% or so.

Something doesn't add up, and it is Zeze's self-contradicting logic.

 

[Chiropteran]

SB was a trash tier up until his recent buffs over and over. He still can't carry and won't. He's at best, a great mid-game ganker + carry disabler (anti-BKB).

You don't even have a clue what you are talking about. You like to act like you know everything, but... here is reality for you:

http://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit/b/432308238?t=281m0s

I don't care how good you think you are- KP & EG play on a higher level, and spirit breaker simply dominates that game, followed up with a BAN on spirit breaker because EG is smart enough to realize he can and will carry them again.

 

[{bad}]

Since I occasionally buy a RoH, I know my opinion means nothing.

But I have yet to see a proper spirit breaker fail to carry his team pretty damn far. Even as a "baddie" as zeze thinks I am, if I random or random draft into a spirit breaker I nearly always win, lifetime win rate 82% and that would actually be higher except the first couple games I used him I had no idea how charge of darkness worked and I was accidentally cancelling it before it hit.

I feel like if I get spirit breaker, I am almost guaranteed a win. If my team has some really dedicated feeders and/or AFKers it is still possible to lose, somewhat, but he is just such a strong hero it usually doesn't matter.

In turn, when I play against one I either have to specifically counter him (which I really don't have any idea how to, though linken's helps, another one of zeze's hated items).

Funny enough I tried making a bkb one game to counter spirit breaker, but all of his stuns went right through it. Funny how it's considered such a great item but in practice it has such glaring weaknesses, I'd have probably won that game if I made a linken's instead of a bkb. Now I know better.

Wards do not counter him in any way whatsoever. Knowing he is charging doesn't solve the problem, you are still forced to either play super passive and give up all hopes of farming the entire game, or you get ganked and die repeatedly.

- bara's "stun" is actually bash, its works same as troll's stun or basher.. none of them are stopped by bkb because they are not spells.

- linken can stop his ulti or charge, it helps only when you are alone but once you in teamfight that won't help and by the time you get linken there are only teamfights.

- wards provide vision, if u know that sb is has charged some1 your team can tp in 2 help or hero can tp base, bara will stop charge or if he dive in he dies.

- bara works fine in lower bracket pools but once you get 2 higher skill matches, u can nvr charge sme1 when you c him alone bcoz its normally a bait, as soon as you reach there you will c other 4 heros hiding.

- they changed bara's charge last year, earlier it yous to give him magic immunity, but now u can get stuned, hexed etc when you have charged sme1. hios is where wards help most. when you c him cming you are ready 2 cast spell b4 his bash hits you.

- same as ck-wisp combo, bara won't work if other team sticks unless he too fat

 

[Chiropteran]

- bara's "stun" is actually bash, its works same as troll's stun or basher.. none of them are stopped by bkb because they are not spells.

He has 3 stuns, one is the bash the other two are spells. BKB used to protect against his spell-based stuns, but it was changed in 2012 and doesn't really do anything anymore.

- bara works fine in lower bracket pools but once you get 2 higher skill matches, u can nvr charge sme1 when you c him alone bcoz its normally a bait, as soon as you reach there you will c other 4 heros hiding.

Are you saying professional Dota 2 is low elo?

http://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit/b/432308238?t=281m0s

- same as ck-wisp combo, bara won't work if other team sticks unless he too fat

Same as ck-wisp...? Isn't ck-wisp combo used in professional games all the time, and used to dominate them? I don't see how that example supports the idea that SB is a low-elo only viable hero.

- wards provide vision, if u know that sb is has charged some1 your team can tp in 2 help or hero can tp base, bara will stop charge or if he dive in he dies.

- they changed bara's charge last year, earlier it yous to give him magic immunity, but now u can get stuned, hexed etc when you have charged sme1. hios is where wards help most. when you c him cming you are ready 2 cast spell b4 his bash hits you.

You see, I agree with what you say, but I disagree that it actually counters SB.

Yes, you can always run as a group, yes you can teleport out when you see him coming, yes, you can teleport in to protect your ally. But when that happens, SB can simply cancel the charge and go back to farming. Your entire game has to revolve around counting SB, while SB's team can farm at will and push down towers and take roshan all while you are cowering behind your wards and playing safe to "counter" him.

In the act of countering his ganking, you throw away any real chance to win the game.

- linken can stop his ulti or charge, it helps only when you are alone but once you in teamfight that won't help and by the time you get linken there are only teamfights.

Not going to restart this line of argument. I understand there are players who hate linken's and think it's bad, and nothing I say will change their mind.

 

[{bad}]

Same as ck-wisp...? Isn't ck-wisp combo used in professional games all the time, and used to dominate them? I don't see how that example supports the idea that SB is a low-elo only viable hero.

sry my i was chatting with sme1 and forgot i was taking about it...

what i meant was by ck-wisp was that they don't work if other team sticks. or atleast 2-3 players stick. they good @ picking solo heros.

will explain rest after dinner

 

[Chiropteran]

Live game right now, Kaipi picking Spirit Breaker vs Na'vi. Will be interesting to see how they do with him.

http://www.twitch.tv/joindotared


.

 

[Zeze]

This kid is bad AND delusional.

1 situational pocket pick of SB and suddenly he's god-tier. He's totally ignored in 500 pro games played in that same month.

What was the lie? I decided to un-ignore you because everyone has established that you're an ignorant noob, it's fun watching you spew your terrible opinions gathered from your scraping bottom tier.

 

[Zeze]

Not going to restart this line of argument. I understand there are players who hate linken's and think it's bad, and nothing I say will change their mind.

Why would anyone change their experienced opinion over an objectively terrible noob opinion of yours who is barely learning the game?

You repeatedly show how garabge you are (and you yourself admit), yet you repeatedly act like your opinion should matter.

wtf is wrong with your head?

 

[Chiropteran]

Live game right now, Kaipi picking Spirit Breaker vs Na'vi. Will be interesting to see how they do with him.

http://www.twitch.tv/joindotared


.

27 to 4 14 minute victory for Kaipi. Na'vi SMASHED by spirit breaker.

I guess that just means that Na'vi is some terrible low-elo baddies, according to Zeze. Sadly I bet spirit breaker will get banned for game 3, I'd love to see him get used again in a pro game.

He's totally ignored in 500 pro games played in that same month.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of anything. This has nothing to do with Dota 2, it's basic logic. The lack of spirit breaker in pro games prior to the last few weeks is not proof he is bad, rather it's a lack of useful information.

Of course your whole thinking revolves around following the common pro strategies like a sheep, you seem to be completely incapable of accepting the idea that a strategy might work that hasn't been used 100 times in the past. I feel like you are a LoL player who somehow by weird random chance prefers to play Dota 2. You constantly use the past in your examples, claiming that if it hasn't been used in pro games it's bad.

What did you think when Alliance stole rosh 1 minute into the game? Or when alliance purposely sacrificed NP to rosh to bait for an early game gank? I guess since those strategies were never used previously they were bad, even if they led to alliance winning their games?

The fact is, Dota is a very deep game. Even the pros can't test every possible strategy or team composition, and a lot of heros and even items are typically avoided, not because they are outright bad, but because they don't want to chance something untested in a serious game with prizes on the line. You can't seem to grasp this concept though, you immediatly assume that if something isn't regularly used it must be terrible and bad- until the day it starts getting used, when suddenly you hop on the bandwagon, like you did with Treant.

 

[Zeze]

27 to 4 14 minute victory for Kaipi. Na'vi SMASHED by spirit breaker.

I guess that just means that Na'vi is some terrible low-elo baddies, according to Zeze. Sadly I bet spirit breaker will get banned for game 3, I'd love to see him get used again in a pro game.

You mean SB was the third in GPM/Exp while Weaver and TA absolutely carried the game. SB was not even a deal-breaker in that game.

You are so blindly bad. You continuously miss everyone's point here and this game. Just stop and shut up please.

Why is Na'vi a low-elo baddies? Because they lost few games? Throws and snowballs happen VERY often in any major sports, not just Dota.

I mean, you're the utter garbage who actually insists on RoH naked SF will beat a stacked SF. ZERO concept of outlaning & out lasthitting.

Just shut up. You are terrible, so is your terrible opinion formed from your terrible games consisting of 9 others like you.

SB was a trash tier up until his recent buffs over and over. He still can't carry and won't. He's at best, a great mid-game ganker + carry disabler (anti-BKB).

You're so blind and seething with delusional rage, you misread everyone and contort their thoughts into your twisted little versions. He's an able hero at best. AND SB wasn't even a factor in that game.

 

[CWRMadcat]

27 to 4 14 minute victory for Kaipi. Na'vi SMASHED by spirit breaker.

I guess that just means that Na'vi is some terrible low-elo baddies, according to Zeze. Sadly I bet spirit breaker will get banned for game 3, I'd love to see him get used again in a pro game.




The absence of evidence is not evidence of anything. This has nothing to do with Dota 2, it's basic logic. The lack of spirit breaker in pro games prior to the last few weeks is not proof he is bad, rather it's a lack of useful information.

Of course your whole thinking revolves around following the common pro strategies like a sheep, you seem to be completely incapable of accepting the idea that a strategy might work that hasn't been used 100 times in the past. I feel like you are a LoL player who somehow by weird random chance prefers to play Dota 2. You constantly use the past in your examples, claiming that if it hasn't been used in pro games it's bad.

What did you think when Alliance stole rosh 1 minute into the game? Or when alliance purposely sacrificed NP to rosh to bait for an early game gank? I guess since those strategies were never used previously they were bad, even if they led to alliance winning their games?

The fact is, Dota is a very deep game. Even the pros can't test every possible strategy or team composition, and a lot of heros and even items are typically avoided, not because they are outright bad, but because they don't want to chance something untested in a serious game with prizes on the line. You can't seem to grasp this concept though, you immediatly assume that if something isn't regularly used it must be terrible and bad- until the day it starts getting used, when suddenly you hop on the bandwagon, like you did with Treant.

Are you dumb? TA and weaver dominated their respective lanes. SB was useful, but he didn't smash anything.