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[z1ggy]

I think batrider is more of a team fight initator type hero - I always die if I try to solo gank with him... basically you suppose to blink in, lasso someone, drag them to your team mates to kill him...

He needs a coordinated team. If you watch a pro game, the bat will initiate a team fight buy popping firefly and blinking into the enemy team, he will lasso a hero and then fly/be forcestaffed back into his own team, dragging the enemy hero who gets killed before they can do anything. The resulting fight is then 5 v 4.

He is also very powerful because he is still very good in ganks/small skirmishes and is very flexible (can offlane, jungle or mid).

So based on the above quotes, he is not good for low level pubs because:

A- half the time most people aren't speaking english
B- when they do, they are trolling
C- if they aren't trolling, they just suck
D- if they aren't A B or C then they are okay to work with

D happens about 5% of the time for me. -_-

Thinking about giving death prophet a whirl tonight.

 

[CWRMadcat]

Same.

So to go back on topic... I feel like in the July '13 list of top heroes/ban picks I saw bat rider in there. I gave him a whirl last night in 2 games. He was fun, but over all I felt like in general, he sucked. Low over all base damage, not overly fast, not agile, and his fire shit spell doesn't do a ton of damage. Over all I felt like the most damage I could do to anybody was around 500-600.

This is what I did:

Shoot oil on them
lasso them- 4 seconds
shit fire on them for 4 seconds (max 320 damage + I think 80 ? more from the oil)
oil them again
toss the bomb thing on them
regular attack


I could only do this to squishy heroes because I'd be dead before I even got the bomb off on them.

He seemed like a very good farmer because of the oil, and his mana was always full, but he seemed either just kind of crappy, or needing an advanced level player to make any good use of him.

As others have said you really need a force staff + blink dagger to make full use of him. Sticky napalm is super annoying though, the fact that it really reduces your turn rate makes it a nightmare to deal with sometimes. Also, remember that napalm also increases batrider's attack damage on that target. You'd be surprised at how much you can hurt someone who doesn't respect napalm stacks.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

So based on the above quotes, he is not good for low level pubs because:

A- half the time most people aren't speaking english
B- when they do, they are trolling
C- if they aren't trolling, they just suck
D- if they aren't A B or C then they are okay to work with

D happens about 5% of the time for me. -_-

Thinking about giving death prophet a whirl tonight.

You are correct... Batrider and Dark Seer are two VERY powerful heroes ONLY if you have a coordinated team that know what they are suppose to do in a team fight - which is why they are picked a lot in Pro games. If your team mates are not coordinated = basically it is a 4 vs 5 fight the entire game.

 

[z1ggy]

Yeah I am going to try him again tonight. Maybe tell my team what the deal with him is. I thought he was cool and I liked how once I got his damage up a bit, I could farm pretty easy.

What other items would u buy?? I tended to get phase boots and SB since he can't escape well. I guess I could blink and not buy the shadow blade, but I liked the damage boost since it's base damage is pretty low.

 

[Delita]

As others have said you really need a force staff + blink dagger to make full use of him. Sticky napalm is super annoying though, the fact that it really reduces your turn rate makes it a nightmare to deal with sometimes. Also, remember that napalm also increases batrider's attack damage on that target. You'd be surprised at how much you can hurt someone who doesn't respect napalm stacks.

I watched a few pro games a little while ago and bone7 from Kaipi was getting a mask of madness on him as well. Increased movement speed while firefly on was pretty crazy to deal with.

 

[BergeLSU]

Yeah I am going to try him again tonight. Maybe tell my team what the deal with him is. I thought he was cool and I liked how once I got his damage up a bit, I could farm pretty easy.

What other items would u buy?? I tended to get phase boots and SB since he can't escape well. I guess I could blink and not buy the shadow blade, but I liked the damage boost since it's base damage is pretty low.

Bat is incredible in the lane because of his Q. What happens is you casually start spamming it on the enemy, either they let it stack to 4 and you get a LOT of bonus damage on them (just autoattack them), or they have to back off to the point where they can't last hit or maybe not even get XP.

I won a game a few weeks back where my team was down 4-26 in kills. They had a fed Phantom Assassin, but for every teamfight, I was able to blink in, lasso her, and force staff myself towards my team. It completely took their carry out of the fight, and we ended up coming back even though I went something like 2-11-15.

Bat is a lot of fun, but you are right, I didn't think he was that useful when I first started playing. I just didn't know HOW to play him yet.

Blink + Force Staff + Drum works really well on him, in my opinion anyway. If you feel like you need more mana, and you are playing a support role, feel free to get Arcane Boots.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Urn? Pretty much a staple for any ganking hero.

Drums - good for pretty much any hero at any time.

Sheepstick later on - that means that you can get solo pickoffs a bit easier, since when you're lassooing an enemy you can't actually damage them apart from the firefly. And in teamfights you can provide a bit more utility to your team.

You could consider getting tranquils, since he's an Int hero and doesn't really have mana issues the heal could come in useful.

 

[BergeLSU]

Urn? Pretty much a staple for any ganking hero.

Drums - good for pretty much any hero at any time.

Sheepstick later on - that means that you can get solo pickoffs a bit easier, since when you're lassooing an enemy you can't actually damage them apart from the firefly. And in teamfights you can provide a bit more utility to your team.

You could consider getting tranquils, since he's an Int hero and doesn't really have mana issues the heal could come in useful.

Urn and Medallion are the two items I am most likely to forget about when I'm thinking of what to build.

The exception is that I always build Medallion on Dazzle.

 

[z1ggy]

Sweet! I am excited to play him later tonight

Any other heroes like this that are maybe crappy to people who don't know how to play them, but can become super awesome once you do? I know Shadow Fiend is one. Haven't mastered him yet but I find every now and then I get off like 1200 worth of damage in just a few seconds.

 

[BergeLSU]

Sweet! I am excited to play him later tonight

Any other heroes like this that are maybe crappy to people who don't know how to play them, but can become super awesome once you do? I know Shadow Fiend is one. Haven't mastered him yet but I find every now and then I get off like 1200 worth of damage in just a few seconds.

Clockwerk felt similar to me when I started. I felt like every time I initiated, I ended up suiciding. Plus, your cogs can screw over your own team often. Having a great game with Clock is VERY satisfying, though.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Sweet! I am excited to play him later tonight

Any other heroes like this that are maybe crappy to people who don't know how to play them, but can become super awesome once you do? I know Shadow Fiend is one. Haven't mastered him yet but I find every now and then I get off like 1200 worth of damage in just a few seconds.

Wisp. Tinker. Brood(?)

Clockwerk felt similar to me when I started. I felt like every time I initiated, I ended up suiciding. Plus, your cogs can screw over your own team often. Having a great game with Clock is VERY satisfying, though.

You just need to know who to initiate on. Pubs don't have the kind of coordination of pro games, so finding solo pickoffs should be easy. Unfarmed carries with no escape mechanism, supports (ES and Leshrac are good because their stuns have such a long cast animation the Clock ministuns disrupt them really well), etc. If you want to initiate into a teamfight, you have to make sure your team has the ability to back you up. There's no point going in if you're going to be dying instead, that defeats the whole point of an initiation.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

Sweet! I am excited to play him later tonight

Any other heroes like this that are maybe crappy to people who don't know how to play them, but can become super awesome once you do? I know Shadow Fiend is one. Haven't mastered him yet but I find every now and then I get off like 1200 worth of damage in just a few seconds.

The good thing about playing those kind of "uncommon pub heroes" is that the opposing team may not be familiar with them too - thus, less affective countering or don't know how to react to you.

The bad thing is that your own team mates may not know and when you try to excute things - they don't do their job, you die, and they get mad at you and call you a feeder/noob. Which is why you should que with a friend or at least have a Mic (or type to let them know what you are going to do or need them to do).

 

[BergeLSU]

The bad thing is that your own team mates may not know and when you try to excute things - they don't do their job, you die, and they get mad at you and call you a feeder/noob. .

It's the "YOUR SUCH A BAD NOOB KILL URSELF UNINSTALL" Variety Hour!

Chasing a lvl 11 Bristleback with about 10% hp, I hit him with Veno's Gale, Ultimate, and hit him once (so I put my passive on him as well), and I walked away. I was at about 100 hp. Nearby teammate at about 100 hp as well is just constantly pinging the BB, and chases him, gets hit by his bristles, and dies. And the screaming commenced. "OMG VENO YOUR SO BAD!"

--> Bristleback was just killed by Venomancer

"OMG VENO WTF AR EYOU DOING BADDIE"

 

[velillen]

So first post here. Dont really expect detailed responses (nor need it really) but man as a completely new person this game has way more depth than it seems. Ive only played the tutorial portions so far. It starts out pretty lame and super easy. Mid lane 1 vs 1...just level up high enough and you win. The 5v5 feels like a timed thing. Ive been doing ok (random hero each time) but always end up being lowest level but have a good kill to death ratio. The biggest thing is items. Never feel i know which way to go on items. liek is boots the best over this or that. Valve makes suggested items and i compare them to the other "builds" and pick common items but always feel i can do better. Im sure its an experience thing as the higher end items are where im truly at a loss on. The bots in the tutorial for 5v5 it feels like they time th egame to 30 minutes. Seems like 20 minutes in and suddenly my team starts grouping up and we just steam roll our way to a win from then on.

I still follow this threat daily but Ill probably never get super into it. But man for having 1 map i was amazed at just how indepth the game really is. Get this item and you do way more damage, but get this item and yo are way more of a team support kind of deal. I can definitely see why it has a huge pro scene

 

[SockHaser]

So first post here. Dont really expect detailed responses (nor need it really) but man as a completely new person this game has way more depth than it seems. Ive only played the tutorial portions so far. It starts out pretty lame and super easy. Mid lane 1 vs 1...just level up high enough and you win. The 5v5 feels like a timed thing. Ive been doing ok (random hero each time) but always end up being lowest level but have a good kill to death ratio. The biggest thing is items. Never feel i know which way to go on items. liek is boots the best over this or that. Valve makes suggested items and i compare them to the other "builds" and pick common items but always feel i can do better. Im sure its an experience thing as the higher end items are where im truly at a loss on. The bots in the tutorial for 5v5 it feels like they time th egame to 30 minutes. Seems like 20 minutes in and suddenly my team starts grouping up and we just steam roll our way to a win from then on.

I still follow this threat daily but Ill probably never get super into it. But man for having 1 map i was amazed at just how indepth the game really is. Get this item and you do way more damage, but get this item and yo are way more of a team support kind of deal. I can definitely see why it has a huge pro scene

http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck

This has a lot of useful information for people starting out.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

So, if you click on the Shop there should be a list beside it of the suggested items for that hero - they're just a guide, and in a lot of situation a person might want to get something slightly different, but in general for beginners, if you follow the guide you won't go wrong. Also, guides off the internet are of varying quality, and there is no guarantee that a guide would be any good, even if it's popular.

There's this guy called Purge, he makes a bunch of good videos:

How to spend your starting gold
How to outlane noobs
Hero counters

etc. He's got more videos where he plays a hero and kind of commentates what he did and what went wrong/right, I found it really helpful.

The thing is that bots are different from real people. In some ways they're really good (e.g. last hitting/denying or coordination, especially at Hard/Insane), and sometimes really, really stupid. The bots have a very limited set of heroes to choose from - they're big on disables and such. Maybe the bots feel that at 20 minutes they have enough of a lead to push and finish. Maybe they're actually timed, it doesn't matter. It isn't really a good representation of what people actually do, and if possible I would suggest you play a real match or two to get an idea of the differences. Just...don't play the limited pool heroes, from last information, they were kind of bad.

The biggest thing I would suggest is that you improve your last-hitting skills, it's something that everybody needs work on.

 

[Destiny]

My favourite DOTA 2 Hero at the moment!

 

[z1ggy]

I'm getting really sick of pubs. Every time it's just a stomp by one side b/c one team is filled with total noobs. I'm sick of having to fight a Riki on the other team every single time, too.

Any way I can get into matches with non noobs, but obviously not super awesome people? I feel like I know all the basis now and am good enough to not keep getting stuck with people who don't even know what a sentry ward does.

 

[{bad}]

Valve does not swap machines but swap drives instead. Each player will have a drive with their personal settings stored for quick access.

source

Road to The International 3: Machines

 

[Juddog]

I'm getting really sick of pubs. Every time it's just a stomp by one side b/c one team is filled with total noobs. I'm sick of having to fight a Riki on the other team every single time, too.

Any way I can get into matches with non noobs, but obviously not super awesome people? I feel like I know all the basis now and am good enough to not keep getting stuck with people who don't even know what a sentry ward does.

The MMR system should eventually place you at the correct skill level. If you're being stuck with noobs constantly, well....

 

[z1ggy]

^^ it's because I keep loosing matches. I always am the highest, or second highest lvl player on the team, but we get ding bats who just keep feeding, or in general there's no communication, or most people speak spanish and I have no clue what they say. There's no real team play and people don't get the roles of support v carry, etc.

Heck half the time nobody buys a courier AT ALL and I have to run back and buy one, even tho I am a carry or semi.

 

[smackababy]

Yeah, that is the problem with a rating system for a team game. Even if you're skill level is much higher, you can lose. That is why I always go mid with mid game semi carry or pub stomp hero. You can have the biggest impact on your team that way. Even in HoN, being an 1800, resetting my stats, and playing a 1500 game, I can lose because the other 4 on my team are awful.

 

[Juddog]

^^ it's because I keep loosing matches. I always am the highest, or second highest lvl player on the team, but we get ding bats who just keep feeding, or in general there's no communication, or most people speak spanish and I have no clue what they say. There's no real team play and people don't get the roles of support v carry, etc.

Heck half the time nobody buys a courier AT ALL and I have to run back and buy one, even tho I am a carry or semi.

Like Smackababy's response states, if you really want to jump to the next MMR level, just stick with playing your best hero who is preferably a pubstomper.

For me, I'd rather stay in the low MMR until I can actually get decent, because at the higher MMR's you're going to have teammates who are a lot harsher on you and you're going to be expected to perform well. This creates the problem of learning new heroes being more difficult.

Zeze had this issue, earlier in the thread, and basically had to smurf to learn / perfect new hero strategies (I believe that's what happened but I could be wrong). In the bottom tier you can pick whatever hero you want and be ok as long as you know the core mechanics of the game.

 

[{bad}]

 

[Juddog]

LOL at the McDonalds' registration sticker.