The unofficial Dota 2 thread + complete instructions for new players! [FREE INVITES]

[Zeze]

I agree with opinions against Lich. He's totally ignored in pro scenes for following reasons:

- Absolute lack of stuns. Stuns dominate fights and save you from dying.
- His nuke is potent but the slow is mediocre. The AOE is so small, it's practically a 1-man slow.
- His Dark Ritual spell becomes useless after lanine stage (level 5+). It's basically meant to give mana for his nuke.
- His Frost Armor needs a big buff or a remake. The armor nerf received three versions ago is quite bad. The slow is almost negligible in any given situations.
- His ultimate is too conditional. People usually scatter and creeps screw it up. It also comes out very slowly.

Jakiro does EVERYTHING Lich does better. He's a top-tier pick for this reason:

- Ice Path as you know is outright op. Huge AOE and long reach- outright stuns them all and halts any ganks or aid in netting you kills.
- Dual Breath's AOE is quite impressive. The damage is solid, and the AOE slow is a godsend compared to Lich's single-target slow.
- Liquid Fire is great for pushing, it paralyzes towers. Also not a bad tool for harassing.
- Macropyre is a straight-up pure AOE skill that doesn't need to bounce and will scorch millions of targets without a care with a flat unshared damage. Dump this in your Chrono or Blackhole, GG. He can set it up ALONE with Icepath & Dual Breath.
- Unlike Lich, Jakiro doesn't thirst for mana. You can spam Icepath like 5-6 times at any given time. He always has mana for all his spells. Lich's nuke is stupidly overpriced and he has an another skill just to compensate his mana requirement.

Lich pretty much has 2 spells (nuke & ult) that's useful. Jakiro has 4.

 

[Dijeangenie]

I agree with opinions against Lich. He's totally ignored in pro scenes for following reasons:

- Absolute lack of stuns. Stuns dominate fights and save you from dying.
- His nuke is potent but the slow is mediocre. The AOE is so small, it's practically a 1-man slow.
- His Dark Ritual spell becomes useless after lanine stage (level 5+). It's basically meant to give mana for his nuke.
- His Frost Armor needs a big buff or a remake. The armor nerf received three versions ago is quite bad. The slow is almost negligible in any given situations.
- His ultimate is too conditional. People usually scatter and creeps screw it up. It also comes out very slowly.

Jakiro does EVERYTHING Lich does better. He's a top-tier pick for this reason:

- Ice Path as you know is outright op. Huge AOE and long reach- outright stuns them all and halts any ganks or aid in netting you kills.
- Dual Breath's AOE is quite impressive. The damage is solid, and the AOE slow is a godsend compared to Lich's single-target slow.
- Liquid Fire is great for pushing, it paralyzes towers. Also not a bad tool for harassing.
- Macropyre is a straight-up pure AOE skill that doesn't need to bounce and will scorch millions of targets without a care with a flat unshared damage. Dump this in your Chrono or Blackhole, GG. He can set it up ALONE with Icepath & Dual Breath.
- Unlike Lich, Jakiro doesn't thirst for mana. You can spam Icepath like 5-6 times at any given time. He always has mana for all his spells. Lich's nuke is stupidly overpriced and he has an another skill just to compensate his mana requirement.

Lich pretty much has 2 spells (nuke & ult) that's useful. Jakiro has 4.

Also no escape!! (although jakiro hasn't got a good one one either, at least he can spam ice path as he retreats to zone control etc)

 

[Zeze]

Merlini talks about the new patch. Merlini is an ex-Dota god. He's like Boxer of Starcraft.

There are lots of super long patch commentaries from casters. But this sweet 15-min video from a pro is concise and provides perfect analysis.

 

[Juddog]

I agree with opinions against Lich. He's totally ignored in pro scenes for following reasons:

- Absolute lack of stuns. Stuns dominate fights and save you from dying.
- His nuke is potent but the slow is mediocre. The AOE is so small, it's practically a 1-man slow.
- His Dark Ritual spell becomes useless after lanine stage (level 5+). It's basically meant to give mana for his nuke.
- His Frost Armor needs a big buff or a remake. The armor nerf received three versions ago is quite bad. The slow is almost negligible in any given situations.
- His ultimate is too conditional. People usually scatter and creeps screw it up. It also comes out very slowly.

Jakiro does EVERYTHING Lich does better. He's a top-tier pick for this reason:

- Ice Path as you know is outright op. Huge AOE and long reach- outright stuns them all and halts any ganks or aid in netting you kills.
- Dual Breath's AOE is quite impressive. The damage is solid, and the AOE slow is a godsend compared to Lich's single-target slow.
- Liquid Fire is great for pushing, it paralyzes towers. Also not a bad tool for harassing.
- Macropyre is a straight-up pure AOE skill that doesn't need to bounce and will scorch millions of targets without a care with a flat unshared damage. Dump this in your Chrono or Blackhole, GG. He can set it up ALONE with Icepath & Dual Breath.
- Unlike Lich, Jakiro doesn't thirst for mana. You can spam Icepath like 5-6 times at any given time. He always has mana for all his spells. Lich's nuke is stupidly overpriced and he has an another skill just to compensate his mana requirement.

Lich pretty much has 2 spells (nuke & ult) that's useful. Jakiro has 4.

Hmm true; I was playing lich last night and was kind of surprised at how much he sucks. When you get off his ult it's great, other than that he seems kinda useless.

 

[Zeze]

Hmm true; I was playing lich last night and was kind of surprised at how much he sucks. When you get off his ult it's great, other than that he seems kinda useless.

Lich is still amazing in low and even medium level pubs going mid because he simply wins lanes as the SOLO hero

A skilled Lich will beat everyone mid 1v1 except possibly Bat and QoP. This is because:

- If you deny a creep, it still gives like 33% exp to enemy. But if you use Dark Ritual when creeps spawn, it absolutely robs them to 0%. By the time creeps meet at river, you can deny again. This is detrimental. AND this is on top of you denying using your auto attack.

- Because Lich is going head-to-head 1v1 mid, he will have paramount EXP and levels against the game time & everyone. This means his nuke will be absolutely devastating and powerful. This isn't your crippled support Lich with few levels behind. Right from level 3, he nukes like a motherfvcking truck, especially when enemy is also level 3 and below you. When Lich is level 5, each nuke will deal 30-40% of their HP. Level 6? Stay home before he ults you. Level 7? Enjoy the MAX level Nova at 6th minute.

- Abuse cheap value items (Wand, Bracer, Null, Tranquil) and go mid as Lich in pubs. Start nuking the enemy at every CD from level 3. You will win. It's not uncommon you see SF level 3 when Lich is level 5. 2 nukes, he's sent home crying and totally zoned out.

1v1 mid lich is very satisfying and potent. Give it a try.

 

[Chiropteran]

I almost never lose when I get lich in all random or single draft. It's just a guaranteed lane win almost, and one good team-fight ultimate can carry a game. I am pretty low elo though

 

[Zeze]

I almost never lose when I get lich in all random or single draft. It's just a guaranteed lane win almost, and one good team-fight ultimate can carry a game. I am pretty low elo though

Yea. Getting random gold with Lich and buying selfish items is like cheating the game.

Same for Nyx with random gold. Oh god.

 

[Dijeangenie]

Merlini talks about the new patch. Merlini is an ex-Dota god. He's like Boxer of Starcraft.

There are lots of super long patch commentaries from casters. But this sweet 15-min video from a pro is concise and provides perfect analysis.

He is a very good player by all accounts but also a massive dick who completely changes his personality for streaming! So many people who played with him in Dota 1, or before he started streaming say he used to just flame and rage, plus he used to talk behind peoples back about other players in the same team as him etc when he was a pro (telling the carry player that the support was letting the team down and vice versa).

 

[Zeze]

I don't really care about him or his personality.

 

[Apathetic]

Sent you a PM.

Dave

 

[Zeze]

Sent you a PM.

Dave

Sent you an invite,

Zeze

 

[Ns1]

I'm intrigued by this proscene. Very, very intrigued.

 

[Apathetic]

Sent you an invite,

Zeze

Thank you!

Dave

 

[boozie]

* Doom's Scepter mechanic is lulz.

I've seen this mentioned multiple times but where is this in the patch notes?

All I see is

"Doom Bringer
- Scorched Earth now also affects other units you control
- Doom now has too much armor! (+1)"

on the playdota changelog.

 

[Dijeangenie]

I've seen this mentioned multiple times but where is this in the patch notes?

All I see is

"Doom Bringer
- Scorched Earth now also affects other units you control
- Doom now has too much armor! (+1)"

on the playdota changelog.

You are looking at some old patch notes (6.77 Dota 2 patch notes?) - This is the new patch (http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.78)

It will be ported to Dota 2 next week!

 

[smackababy]

I agree with opinions against Lich. He's totally ignored in pro scenes for following reasons:

- Absolute lack of stuns. Stuns dominate fights and save you from dying.
- His nuke is potent but the slow is mediocre. The AOE is so small, it's practically a 1-man slow.
- His Dark Ritual spell becomes useless after lanine stage (level 5+). It's basically meant to give mana for his nuke.
- His Frost Armor needs a big buff or a remake. The armor nerf received three versions ago is quite bad. The slow is almost negligible in any given situations.
- His ultimate is too conditional. People usually scatter and creeps screw it up. It also comes out very slowly.

Jakiro does EVERYTHING Lich does better. He's a top-tier pick for this reason:

- Ice Path as you know is outright op. Huge AOE and long reach- outright stuns them all and halts any ganks or aid in netting you kills.
- Dual Breath's AOE is quite impressive. The damage is solid, and the AOE slow is a godsend compared to Lich's single-target slow.
- Liquid Fire is great for pushing, it paralyzes towers. Also not a bad tool for harassing.
- Macropyre is a straight-up pure AOE skill that doesn't need to bounce and will scorch millions of targets without a care with a flat unshared damage. Dump this in your Chrono or Blackhole, GG. He can set it up ALONE with Icepath & Dual Breath.
- Unlike Lich, Jakiro doesn't thirst for mana. You can spam Icepath like 5-6 times at any given time. He always has mana for all his spells. Lich's nuke is stupidly overpriced and he has an another skill just to compensate his mana requirement.

Lich pretty much has 2 spells (nuke & ult) that's useful. Jakiro has 4.

I am not sure the current competitive meta in Dota 2, but Lich could be very effective in a suicide role (solo long lane). If you have your hard carry solo short, a semi carry / initiator type mid with a baby sitter (tiny / nyx + a ranged support) and a jungler, Lich can easily keep lane control from their short lane. Blocking the pull camp and the constant deny, can keep the lane close to his tower. You can do that with Void as well, and be more effective, but I am not sure exactly how many viable junglers there are in Dota atm.

 

[boozie]

You are looking at some old patch notes (6.77 Dota 2 patch notes?) - This is the new patch (http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.78

Hmm I don't know how I got that mixed up, I read basically every other change already. I must have thought nothing about it and then when I went back to look it up I ctl+f 'd into the 6.77 section without realizing it.

 

[Zeze]

I am not sure the current competitive meta in Dota 2, but Lich could be very effective in a suicide role (solo long lane). If you have your hard carry solo short, a semi carry / initiator type mid with a baby sitter (tiny / nyx + a ranged support) and a jungler, Lich can easily keep lane control from their short lane. Blocking the pull camp and the constant deny, can keep the lane close to his tower. You can do that with Void as well, and be more effective, but I am not sure exactly how many viable junglers there are in Dota atm.

Yeah. Lich is completely ignored in competitive scene now because there are tons of other heroes that do a better job and offer more. He's not even rarely picked, but totally ignored.

Jakiro, Rubick, WR, Disruptor, Lina, Wisp, Leshrac, Lion, etc.

They ALL offer AOE stun / combo disable which is gamebreaking in teamfights.

Lich needs a big buff/fixes in order to be viable:

- Make his nuke cheaper to cast. A single-nuke costing 125 to 190 mana is INSANE on a crippled support. Having a dedicated second skill just to give him mana is very disappointing.

- Or make the nuke appropriately stronger. But then Lich is strong enough in pubs in 1v1 mid. Find a way to balance this.

- Ice Armor is atrociously embarrassing today. It gives 3/5/7/9 armor to ONE ally every 5 seconds. That's pitiful compared to Sven's Warcry that INSTANTLY gives 4/8/12/16 (wtf 16) armor to everyone in AOE. The slow is way too situational- only affects melee units. Make it slow ranged attackers too or spell casters- it would be a nice change, functioning like a mobile Viper's Corrosive Skin.

- Sacrifice (Dark Ritual in Dota 1) needs more utility. Make Sacrifice give 0% EXP rather than 33%. Or have it give passive regen or MS of sort.

His ultimate is fine at the moment. He's just underwhelming as a laning support- the only way pros play him.

 

[Zeze]

I've seen this mentioned multiple times but where is this in the patch notes?

All I see is

"Doom Bringer
- Scorched Earth now also affects other units you control
- Doom now has too much armor! (+1)"

on the playdota changelog.

With Scepter, the duration of Doom's ultimate lasts forever / paused as long as Doom is within 550 range. Theoretically the target is Doomed forever until he dies as long as Doom can chase.

Many people are saying it's imba, but experienced people know it's no big deal because:

- Doom has to spend 4200 gold just to get that Scepter, not real carry items. A BIG step backward.

- Doom has to commit to one target in order to make that benefit worth it. A big no-no in teamfights.

- Most of the time when his ultimate is wasted, it's because he simply can't chase due to being outmatched or enemy help arriving. This gimmick is useless.

- Again, opportunity cost. He can get real items that would do same and more damage chasing than pigeon-holing your gold just for the already existing spell.

 

[smackababy]

Yeah. Lich is completely ignored in competitive scene now because there are tons of other heroes that do a better job and offer more. He's not even rarely picked, but totally ignored.

Jakiro, Rubick, WR, Disruptor, Lina, Wisp, Leshrac, Lion, etc.

They ALL offer AOE stun / combo disable which is gamebreaking in teamfights.

Lich needs a big buff/fixes in order to be viable:

- Make his nuke cheaper to cast. A single-nuke costing 125 to 190 mana is INSANE on a crippled support. Having a dedicated second skill just to give him mana is very disappointing.

- Or make the nuke appropriately stronger. But then Lich is strong enough in pubs in 1v1 mid. Find a way to balance this.

- Ice Armor is atrociously embarrassing today. It gives 3/5/7/9 armor to ONE ally every 5 seconds. That's pitiful compared to Sven's Warcry that INSTANTLY gives 4/8/12/16 (wtf 16) armor to everyone in AOE. The slow is way too situational- only affects melee units. Make it slow ranged attackers too or spell casters- it would be a nice change, functioning like a mobile Viper's Corrosive Skin.

- Sacrifice (Dark Ritual in Dota 1) needs more utility. Make Sacrifice give 0% EXP rather than 33%. Or have it give passive regen or MS of sort.

His ultimate is fine at the moment. He's just underwhelming as a laning support- the only way pros play him.

It is his deny and nuke (that slows) that makes me viable enough to be a suicide roll, however there are better heroes for this. I don't know how the competitive meta is in Dota 2 though, so I don't know if they are even doing solo short vs solo long (expecting the solo long to not get much farm, but stop the solo short from getting so much). And before I did not mean Void, I meant Enigma, as a better alternative to Lich in that role. He can deny (actually I don't know if he can deny with his W, if he can't NM). If you are okay with giving up farm, Sand King is good and offers great second support abilities with his stun and ultimate.

 

[Zeze]

Check out the competitive scene. It's very fun. I follow it more than sports.

Pros playing the game at their finest skill in big 5v5 fights from drafting to ganking to pushing are all quite spectacular.

I learned a lot about what's truly good and bad from watching the pro games as well. Exploiting the same strat in pubs is more hilarious too. And this will give you a better idea about Lich and how pros lane/setup their heroes.

Matches are streamed & Youtube'd on a daily basis. It's a very active game. The links are mentioned in this thread numerous times.

 

[SockHaser]

With Scepter, the duration of Doom's ultimate lasts forever / paused as long as Doom is within 550 range. Theoretically the target is Doomed forever until he dies as long as Doom can chase.

Many people are saying it's imba, but experienced people know it's no big deal because:

- Doom has to spend 4200 gold just to get that Scepter, not real carry items. A BIG step backward.

- Doom has to commit to one target in order to make that benefit worth it. A big no-no in teamfights.

- Most of the time when his ultimate is wasted, it's because he simply can't chase due to being outmatched or enemy help arriving. This gimmick is useless.

- Again, opportunity cost. He can get real items that would do same and more damage chasing than pigeon-holing your gold just for the already existing spell.

Plus Doom lasts 16sec on the first place. if you can't kill him in that time frame, you prob aren't going to be able to anyways.

Also, if anyone wants to hear more theorycrafting, the captain of Mouz talks over the patch here
http://www.twitch.tv/synderen/b/410615368?t=2h31m30s

 

[Zeze]

Holy crap, new Dota 2 patch just rolled out.

Now the TI3 Compendium owners get Taunts. How many? All 6 of them!


http://i.imgur.com/FBtoEOm.gif

http://i.imgur.com/rd9GbCC.gif

http://i.imgur.com/7zH2kQ0.gif

http://i.imgur.com/qmG5uZb.gif

http://i.imgur.com/E4MJBVI.gif

http://i.imgur.com/UquT6Vn.gif

Best fvcking item you could buy in Dota 2. Just ridiculous value. Even if you buy now, you still get all past rewards and future ones.

All that talk, I should buy one myself. :hmm:


---
In last 7 days I must've given out like 10 invites.

Keep asking me! I still have about 30 more. Also ask anyone here. We probably collectively have 100+.

 

[Destiny]

Holy crap, new Dota 2 patch just rolled out.

Now the TI3 Compendium owners get Taunts. How many? All 6 of them!














Best fvcking item you could buy in Dota 2. Just ridiculous value. Even if you buy now, you still get all past rewards and future ones.

All that talk, I should buy one myself. :hmm:


---
In last 7 days I must've given out like 10 invites.

Keep asking me! I still have about 30 more. Also ask anyone here. We probably collectively have 100+.

And all this time I thought you purchased the Compendium!! *SHAKES FIST*

The past week all I've been using is Lina and Crystal Maiden, so I'm happy...LOL

 

[Zeze]

Here's more.

Is it me or Chrome is really bad at displaying gifs? It's 2013 with multi-core CPUs. They can't even show them smoothly? They stutter or some get stuck.

http://i.imm.io/17Rio.gif

http://i.imm.io/17RjC.gif

[edit] I got rid of embedding because it's lagging up the thread.