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[Rinaun]

Blech.

Have you guys actually realized no other life event can induce such rage outside of Dota?

I mean, who the hell knows just how to piss you off to no end with utterly poisonous behavior in real life? No one.

Dota is worse than other games because the match requires you to invest the next 30-50 mins with other 9 players = results in bad behavior really getting to you.

I've quit for what, over a week? And I'm glad. I had this epiphany... really nothing in my life can set me in such bad mood than playing a bad game of Dota.

I may or may not come back, but it sure feels good. The initial crave is gone and I'm playing mindless single-player indie games here and there. Just as satisfying, zero rage.

This. This x1000. So many other games that take a much lower level of investment and are 1000% less stressful. Games like L4D2 with teams as small as 5v5 need to have a better matchmaking system before I'll return to them. As I mentioned before, even playing non-dota games such as payday with 3 other random people is a nightmare. I've had people join my payday games and just start slaughtering civilians.


I quit trying to become good at dota a year ago and moved onto games with less time investments. The only friends who still play dota daily are the ones who played it during warcraft 3. I think most people who aren't pro like LoL over DOTA because of how easy gameplay is. I like watching DOTA over LoL, but LoL is much much more popular with gamers for gameplay reasons (no denies, bushes, etc).

 

[Chiropteran]

In in his case, I wouldn't do it. If I see them TPing, and I can't safely secure the tower kill, it isn't worth the death. Yes, you 'give your team 1200 gold' at the expense of gold and XP for yourself, plus gold and XP to the other team for killing you. You also put them in an advantageous position to either push, Rosh, or teamfight, because you are down for however many seconds. So, sure, mathematically, your team comes out ahead, but if you just gave gold and experience to their carry (who will then probably farm out the lane) and gave them momentum to advance, was that gold difference that important? 1200 gold is nothing in teams of gold ahead unless it is very, very early game. (same situation in like the first 2-3 minutes, I'd take the tower; whoever TP'd lost their lane and the gold advantage should help the other lane win)

You can't just look at the gold / XP gain or loss. It really isn't that important. How many games have you seen pros with a 20K gold advantage lose a team fight because they pushed a bit too far, or were caught out of position? Now, that 1200 gold difference doesn't seem like much.

The 1200 gold was NET gain based on my brief calculation, I already accounted for the gold given to the enemy team for killing the hero.

Lets see how the actual math works out:

A tower kill is 264 reliable gold bounty, per hero, 1320 gold total. There is an additional 100 gold given for landing the last hit, so total 1420.

The enemy team used 3 teleport scrolls, at a cost of 135 gold each, total cost 405 gold.

Killing a level 11 hero with no kill streak is worth 299 gold to the killer and 150 gold to each of the two assists, total 699.

Gold gain for enemy team after cost of teleports: 294 gold, gold gain for your team: 1420 gold. Net difference: 1126 gold.

So I was off by about 70 gold, not too bad. Then there is gold lost on death, potentially, but it's really easy to mitigate this loss by spending the gold before you die. And if the tower was a tier 2 tower, the total bounty is about 250 gold higher.


Anyway, I think the point I was trying to make was made. There are a lot of players who get false feedback on actions just because they don't even know how much gold is really earned or lost by various actions. I see Dota 2 as a lot like poker, you need to combine the estimated payoff with the estimated chance of success, and compare with the cost of failure.

Solo farming a lane past early game is one of these cases. If you have a hero with a good escape like PL or AM, it's not that risky. Might be a small chance of getting killed if the enemy team uses all their resources to find and gank you, using smoke etc. But in many cases, it's worth the risk, by far.

Earning 300+ gold per creep wave and farming 3 waves before you could even be potentially ganked, it's already almost a break even if you are killed. The enemy team has to drop all farming to gank you, so that is gold you effectively denied them, and they need to face the risk of spending all the time and effort to gank you when you might just be able to blink away to safety.

Now if you have a 50% chance of getting away, and dying won't lose your team a rax or t3 tower, it's the correct move to farm as such. On average you will come out way ahead. If it's a 10% chance of getting away, probably not. If it's a 90% chance of getting away, it's absolutely a good idea to farm up.

Of course, like poker, there are bad beats. Sometimes you do something that is statistically in your favor, but the random circumstances of the particular game you are playing results in you dying anyway. That doesn't mean you made the wrong move.

A move that results in a win 4/5 times is still the correct move, even if it was one of those 1/5 cases where it doesn't work out.

 

[crownjules]

I quit trying to become good at dota a year ago and moved onto games with less time investments. The only friends who still play dota daily are the ones who played it during warcraft 3. I think most people who aren't pro like LoL over DOTA because of how easy gameplay is. I like watching DOTA over LoL, but LoL is much much more popular with gamers for gameplay reasons (no denies, bushes, etc).

LoL is popular because its simplified. No denying, no gold loss on death, everyone has an easy way to base, etc. That, however, does not mean it's any less rage inducing. You still are playing with 9 other players and there are still poisonous individuals out there who take playing a game way too seriously or just have fun making the game miserable for other players. And it's still a 30-50 minute game if you play the traditional game.

I play DOTA2 on occasion, but still very lost. I've sunk 4 years into LoL and it feels like such a chore learning a whole new champion and item system. However, I do like the inventory system way of doing things over LoL's skin system.

 

[BergeLSU]

LoL is popular because its simplified. No denying, no gold loss on death, everyone has an easy way to base, etc. That, however, does not mean it's any less rage inducing. You still are playing with 9 other players and there are still poisonous individuals out there who take playing a game way too seriously or just have fun making the game miserable for other players. And it's still a 30-50 minute game if you play the traditional game.

I play DOTA2 on occasion, but still very lost. I've sunk 4 years into LoL and it feels like such a chore learning a whole new champion and item system. However, I do like the inventory system way of doing things over LoL's skin system.

I'd say LoL is popular because it was "first." It was released almost 4 years before Dota 2.

You won't see a mass transition from people who have invested their time (and money!) into LoL. Some might even agree that Dota is a better game, but would still stay with LoL because they have put too much into it.

Valve just took too long to release Dota 2 for it to compete for the US players.

 

[crownjules]

Valve just took too long to release Dota 2 for it to compete for the US players.

I agree. Valve opted to build a robust and flushed out system at the expense of letting their market share go to their competition. That's not to say they won't steal some of that back. But as we both agree, it's a huge time commitment to get over any ARPG's learning curve. So that is a lot less likely. They'll have the greatest success with LoL players who played DOTA/HoN in the past. But those people who picked up LoL first? I'm betting it'll be a low conversion rate.

 

[Rinaun]

LoL is popular because its simplified. No denying, no gold loss on death, everyone has an easy way to base, etc. That, however, does not mean it's any less rage inducing. You still are playing with 9 other players and there are still poisonous individuals out there who take playing a game way too seriously or just have fun making the game miserable for other players. And it's still a 30-50 minute game if you play the traditional game.

I play DOTA2 on occasion, but still very lost. I've sunk 4 years into LoL and it feels like such a chore learning a whole new champion and item system. However, I do like the inventory system way of doing things over LoL's skin system.

I totally agree. As I mentioned previously, I just simply don't play those type of games unless I have a fully arranged team. I find playing with random people and getting them (if they don't by default) to play correctly is a game within a game, one which I have no desire to play.

 

[Zeze]

Am I the only one who strictly preferred solo queue over stacking with friends?

Solo queue = you can do whatever you want, zero pressure, do stupid builds, play whatever, and play serious too. You win great, you lose, no big deal.

With friends = Bit of a pressure to have a slightly better standard for your play, losing with a friend sucks, troll still exist on your team & enemy team

Trolls happen in either case. But I played with some amazing random teammates too that practically won the game for me (I was a carry, and these two kids played perfect trilane with endless warding/smoking/babysitting).

And I LOVE playing the same perfect support or ganker that make our stranger carry go wet from superior level of play.

 

[KaOTiK]

I solo queue nearly all the time. I find it the most relaxing because as you pointed out, there is no standard going in. I just hate when I get people that talk the entire game, but don't speak english (I select english as the only language in the filter). I end up muting half my team. Had 4 chinese on my team earlier, only time they used english was when the other team was wondering they they paused the game lol.

 

[Zeze]

I solo queue nearly all the time. I find it the most relaxing because as you pointed out, there is no standard going in. I just hate when I get people that talk the entire game, but don't speak english (I select english as the only language in the filter). I end up muting half my team. Had 4 chinese on my team earlier, only time they used english was when the other team was wondering they they paused the game lol.

I really don't mind Chinese, they're clearly more mild mannered and better skilled than South Americans/Russians.

I played with 4 stack Chinese and we had a blast. Also lost with a Chinese team too, but it was still fine. Usually they're not as god damn childish than your Peruvian trash.

And I just can't stand seeing that shit language on the screen... the dumbass feeds then gets mad at himself and directs at his teammates with that classic full sentence of spanish on all chat.

tu madre puta or meirda or some shit.

It happens EVERYTIME. Someone plays like shit then suddenly explode into typing in Spanish (previously either quiet or even typed in English). Then you know it all made sense.

 

[smackababy]

Chinese in Dota are much more mild manner than Chinese tourists in real life; those folks are just plain rude. >_> They are hated more than Americans in Europe nowadays I hear.

Was hoping to get some time in yesterday since I wasn't feeling well and didn't go to work. Queued in one game, as soon as the game started, someone left immediately... I wish leavers were much more severely punished.

 

[Zeze]

Who wants more Dota items? I still have crapton.

 

[Zeze]

Oh crap, big patch. No new heroes but good stuff:

Update Notes - August 22, 2013

Gameplay
- Fixed players' current gold being networked to enemy players.
- Fixed Spirit Breaker's charge target being networked to enemy players.
- Picking up an armlet that is toggled on will only grant the buff if you own the armlet.
- Autocast abilities check target type rules consistently. This should prevent Clinkz's searing arrows hitting wards, for example.
- Added Elder Titan, Abaddon, Centaur and Troll Warlord to Captain's Mode. (Yeaaa shake up the meta! Can't wait to see them when pro games pick up again).
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide not using Slam when 3 enemies are nearby.
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide's Slam not slowing attack speed.
- Ancient Apparition: Frostbite debuff will prevent health gain from levelling up, extra strength or extra max hp.
- Slark: Fixed BKB not removing Pounce's Leash.
- Treant Protector: Fixed Overgrowth affecting couriers.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed Illusions benefiting from Fervor.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed ranged form sometimes being able to bash.
- Weaver's geminate ability no longer activates when attacking wards.
- Weaver's Time Lapse and Disruptor's Glimpse now can rewind things back to before Time Lapse or Glimpse were first skilled.

UI
- Runes now draw in the minimap for spectators.
- Increased the penalty for not readying up from 45 seconds to 2 minutes.
- Spectator stats dropdown is unlocked while listening to broadcasters.
- Added a preference and cvar "dota_spectator_use_broadcaster_stats_panel" to allow spectators to have full control over the stats panels.
- Private (friend/guild) lobbies now display their game name so that those browsing lobbies can get more info on what the lobby is for.
- Changed drag-select of units to use the same hit detection as click-select. This fixes a number of issues where units would not get selected.
- Fixed bugs that were allowing edge panning to be enabled during drag-select.
- Reduced CPU usage of drag-select.
- Fixed some newline formatting errors in the combat log.
- Prevented guides for the previously-played hero from erroneously showing up at the start of the next game.
- Added AOE hover indicator for Death Pulse.

Economy
- Added Waldi courier, Ocula ward, 3 HUDs and 14 hero item sets to the store.
- Updated Sniper's workshop model files with improved weighting, including corrected smd files.

Audio
- Fixed bad interactions with some looping sounds and FoW.
- Fixed Reincarnate stinger sometimes playing late when triggered in vision but out of hearing range.
- Fixed some item cast sounds that could be heard through FoW.
- Typing "tu" in chat no longer triggers hero "thank you" lines.

Mac/Linux
- Fixed crash when using certain spells / illusions on Intel HD4000. [Mac]
- Fixed intermittent crash when cmd-tabbing. [Mac]
- Fixed issues with older PulseAudio installations. [Linux]
- Improved stability when showing webpages.
- Allow setting language of audio and text separately, through Steam. (Text comes from Steam's language, audio comes from the language set in Dota 2's properties on Steam)
- Made Dota2 respond to window manager requests to close it.
- Fixes to make Dota2 work on a broader set of video cards on Linux
- Fixed key repeat to work in text entry windows.
- Fixed loading screens to show an image instead of a black screen
- Fixed a bug preventing multiple users from playing Dota2 (at different times) on a machine.
- Fixed sounds not working when a matchmaking game is ready to start. Added a desktop notification on Linux
- Added XBox 360 spectating controller support.
- Fixed crash on hero selection screen on Linux.
- Fixed a rendering bug when turning off Specular in advanced video settings.
- Fixed mouse offset bug and window size/aspect ratio issue when moving from full screen to windowed modes.

edit: clarified Time Lapse/Glimpse fix.

 

[SockHaser]

Oh crap, big patch. No new heroes but good stuff:

Update Notes - August 22, 2013

Gameplay
- Fixed players' current gold being networked to enemy players.
- Fixed Spirit Breaker's charge target being networked to enemy players.
- Picking up an armlet that is toggled on will only grant the buff if you own the armlet.
- Autocast abilities check target type rules consistently. This should prevent Clinkz's searing arrows hitting wards, for example.
- Added Elder Titan, Abaddon, Centaur and Troll Warlord to Captain's Mode. (Yeaaa shake up the meta! Can't wait to see them when pro games pick up again).
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide not using Slam when 3 enemies are nearby.
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide's Slam not slowing attack speed.
- Ancient Apparition: Frostbite debuff will prevent health gain from levelling up, extra strength or extra max hp.
- Slark: Fixed BKB not removing Pounce's Leash.
- Treant Protector: Fixed Overgrowth affecting couriers.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed Illusions benefiting from Fervor.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed ranged form sometimes being able to bash.
- Weaver's geminate ability no longer activates when attacking wards.
- Weaver's Time Lapse and Disruptor's Glimpse now can rewind things back to before Time Lapse or Glimpse were first skilled.

UI
- Runes now draw in the minimap for spectators.
- Increased the penalty for not readying up from 45 seconds to 2 minutes.
- Spectator stats dropdown is unlocked while listening to broadcasters.
- Added a preference and cvar "dota_spectator_use_broadcaster_stats_panel" to allow spectators to have full control over the stats panels.
- Private (friend/guild) lobbies now display their game name so that those browsing lobbies can get more info on what the lobby is for.
- Changed drag-select of units to use the same hit detection as click-select. This fixes a number of issues where units would not get selected.
- Fixed bugs that were allowing edge panning to be enabled during drag-select.
- Reduced CPU usage of drag-select.
- Fixed some newline formatting errors in the combat log.
- Prevented guides for the previously-played hero from erroneously showing up at the start of the next game.
- Added AOE hover indicator for Death Pulse.

Economy
- Added Waldi courier, Ocula ward, 3 HUDs and 14 hero item sets to the store.
- Updated Sniper's workshop model files with improved weighting, including corrected smd files.

Audio
- Fixed bad interactions with some looping sounds and FoW.
- Fixed Reincarnate stinger sometimes playing late when triggered in vision but out of hearing range.
- Fixed some item cast sounds that could be heard through FoW.
- Typing "tu" in chat no longer triggers hero "thank you" lines.

Mac/Linux
- Fixed crash when using certain spells / illusions on Intel HD4000. [Mac]
- Fixed intermittent crash when cmd-tabbing. [Mac]
- Fixed issues with older PulseAudio installations. [Linux]
- Improved stability when showing webpages.
- Allow setting language of audio and text separately, through Steam. (Text comes from Steam's language, audio comes from the language set in Dota 2's properties on Steam)
- Made Dota2 respond to window manager requests to close it.
- Fixes to make Dota2 work on a broader set of video cards on Linux
- Fixed key repeat to work in text entry windows.
- Fixed loading screens to show an image instead of a black screen
- Fixed a bug preventing multiple users from playing Dota2 (at different times) on a machine.
- Fixed sounds not working when a matchmaking game is ready to start. Added a desktop notification on Linux
- Added XBox 360 spectating controller support.
- Fixed crash on hero selection screen on Linux.
- Fixed a rendering bug when turning off Specular in advanced video settings.
- Fixed mouse offset bug and window size/aspect ratio issue when moving from full screen to windowed modes.

edit: clarified Time Lapse/Glimpse fix.

OMG, they fixed box selecting!

 

[BergeLSU]

Who wants more Dota items? I still have crapton.

If you are giving away cards, I'd take a few.

 

[2timer]

Do you guys have all servers checked? I wonder if it's better to stick to just US servers. Probably not.

 

[Snock514]

Hey guys I've put about 130 hours into dota 2 and thousands of hours into LoL and I'd really enjoy playing with some competent people some time. I joined the steam group but there was only a few members in it. Hit me up with a friend request or invite if you wanna play sometime, I try to fit a game in almost every day.

Do you guys have all servers checked? I wonder if it's better to stick to just US servers. Probably not.

I prefer the 5+ minute wait rather than a bunch of Russians all yelling at each other.

 

[Juddog]

I did a search on "anandtech" for chat channels the other day and didn't get any results. What's our chat channel again?

 

[Peter Nixeus]

I did a search on "anandtech" for chat channels the other day and didn't get any results. What's our chat channel again?

I think someone here is the admin for the Anandtech team sending out invites.

One of the recent DOTA 2 updates allow you to be on more than one team. All you have to do is select which team you want as your profile and you are automatically in that chat channel for that team. You can switch back and forth between teams on the main menu to bring up the respective chat channel for that team.

 

[crownjules]

Since I got 3 items for Witch Doctor, I tried him out. So far he's the hero I've clicked with the fastest. His kit is pretty straightforward and his AA animation doesn't feel like he's attacking through molasses. Who else should I try based on that?

 

[smackababy]

Lion is fairly similar to Witch Doctor but can't push as effectively.

On the WD note, can you 'frog box' in Dota 2? I haven't tried it out. I guess it would be 'pig box' if the term was to translate. I am talking about hexing and then surrounding them with your wards.

 

[SockHaser]

Lion is fairly similar to Witch Doctor but can't push as effectively.

On the WD note, can you 'frog box' in Dota 2? I haven't tried it out. I guess it would be 'pig box' if the term was to translate. I am talking about hexing and then surrounding them with your wards.

You're thinking of shadow Shaman, not Witch Doctor, and yes you can surround with your wards.

Note for if you are trapped in wards, phase boots lets you walk out of them

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Supports buy the darndest things:

 

[smackababy]

So, I can't log in to Dota 2... my console is saying

Can't use cheat cvar snd_voip_center_speaker_vol in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Requested non-existent write path BASE_PATH!
Requested non-existent write path BASE_PATH!

Wtf is this garbage?

 

[smackababy]

You're thinking of shadow Shaman, not Witch Doctor, and yes you can surround with your wards.

Note for if you are trapped in wards, phase boots lets you walk out of them

That is true, I was actually going to suggest Shadow Shaman as well. I confused the two.


Also, crown, try Dazzle.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

Supports buy the darndest things:

Battlefury on ES?! MOM on Lina?! Everything else I can understand just because they are winning and have Gold...but they are probably just trolling - otherwise they would be losing.