The urgency of climate change and how the President might act

[raildogg]

LOL.

It is science and modernism along with a desire to grow economically that is behind the destruction of the world. Now you want that same science to fix it? How can it when everyone wants to grow economically? The destruction has just started.

 

[Paratus]

What really bothers me is the label of CO2 as a pollutant. What to do about it? Cast down the believers trying to scare us with their faux science, which they've NEVER demonstrated a competency in.

Take the people blaming Katrina and Sandy on AGW and go gator hunting with them.

CO2 is exhaust and fatal at higher concentrations:
The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are:

250 - 350 ppm – background (normal) outdoor air level
350- 1,000 ppm - typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange.
1,000 – 2,000 ppm - level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000 – 5,000 ppm – level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
>5,000 ppm – this indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases could also be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures.
>40,000 ppm - this level is immediately harmful due to oxygen deprivation.

 

[Paratus]

Just some of the failed predictions.

Climate Change



Too bad that Moonie and Loonie didn't spend Billions or Trillions trying to stop it or Parrotboy didn't show an equation proving the world is 6,000 years old.



http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/courses/e2200/pop.htm

What the hell are you babbling about?

 

[Moonbeam]

CO2 is exhaust and fatal at higher concentrations:
The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are:

250 - 350 ppm – background (normal) outdoor air level
350- 1,000 ppm - typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange.
1,000 – 2,000 ppm - level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000 – 5,000 ppm – level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
>5,000 ppm – this indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases could also be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures.
>40,000 ppm - this level is immediately harmful due to oxygen deprivation.

None of the facts matter. It bothers him and he shouldn't be confronted with with stuff that does. Only facts that do not upset an ostrich's asshole, can be allowed to blow around in the air.

 

[raildogg]

Manwhile other nations like China are laying waste to theie environment.

Because they want to be like us. Who cares about the earth when money is to be made. We talk all the time about how great modern man is but there is a huge price to be paid for that. The more technology, the more consumerism, the more damage to the planet.

China has more cars now than the USA. India will probably have more cars than both these countries in the future. That means more shopping malls and more products. More land destroyed to build stuff. But whatever, technology and global trade trumps everything.

 

[Screech]

Because they want to be like us. Who cares about the earth when money is to be made. We talk all the time about how great modern man is but there is a huge price to be paid for that. The more technology, the more consumerism, the more damage to the planet.

China has more cars now than the USA. India will probably have more cars than both these countries in the future. That means more shopping malls and more products. More land destroyed to build stuff. But whatever, technology and global trade trumps everything.

The solution is obvious, of course -- we should nuke both china and india to save the environment.

....../sarcasm

But to be serious, I agree with your notes on the above, and as a result I fail to see exactly what the US would do to actually make a real dent here.

 

[Moonbeam]

Because they want to be like us. Who cares about the earth when money is to be made. We talk all the time about how great modern man is but there is a huge price to be paid for that. The more technology, the more consumerism, the more damage to the planet.

China has more cars now than the USA. India will probably have more cars than both these countries in the future. That means more shopping malls and more products. More land destroyed to build stuff. But whatever, technology and global trade trumps everything.

China is killing itself. But China can get things done on command, unlike here where morons have to be dragged kicking and screaming to vote yes.

China had a problem with flies, years back, and called for a fly killing day using all of China's people for a day as a swat team. End of fly problem.

 

[LunarRay]

China is killing itself. But China can get things done on command, unlike here where morons have to be dragged kicking and screaming to vote yes.

China had a problem with flies, years back, and called for a fly killing day using all of China's people for a day as a swat team. End of fly problem.

Perhaps Global Warming like the Flu Virus and Cancer are all part of Intellegent Design... So, why bother? It was designed to kill us all and here we are trying to thwart God's grand scheme...

 

[Moonbeam]

Perhaps Global Warming like the Flu Virus and Cancer are all part of Intellegent Design... So, why bother? It was designed to kill us all and here we are trying to thwart God's grand scheme...

Well since the brain defect that will do nothing to address it isn't a universal, it could be that we are intended to deal with it like we do flu and cancer, treat it as a dangerous disease. I know such thinking on my part causes a bit of resentment among the conservatives who have this disease, resentment and fear, but they never ever consider it from my point of view. They never think about what they would feel if I had a disease that was threatening to kill THEM. Geez. There's a great deal of irony, I guess, in the notion that God gave us brains to solve our problems and then turns around and makes a brain defect that, if you have it, causes you run from your problems while pretending they don't exist.

 

[LunarRay]

Well since the brain defect that will do nothing to address it isn't a universal, it could be that we are intended to deal with it like we do flu and cancer, treat it as a dangerous disease. I know such thinking on my part causes a bit of resentment among the conservatives who have this disease, resentment and fear, but they never ever consider it from my point of view. They never think about what they would feel if I had a disease that was threatening to kill THEM. Geez. There's a great deal of irony, I guess, in the notion that God gave us brains to solve our problems and then turns around and makes a brain defect that, if you have it, causes you run from your problems while pretending they don't exist.

That is the disconnect!...

Some say that some virus IS God induced and mainly to kill off the ummmm well... undeserving among us... and collateral damage from that is to be expected, I guess.
What I find amazing is the 'reasonably factual' notion that brains do evolve within the lifetime to facilitate the apparent dictate of the person undergoing this process... So... which causes what. Are these folks indoctrinated as youth to think a certain way and develop the brain condition that furthers that? I think that to be true. And, Global Warming and the like fall into the category that they can't accept... and therefore, 'run' away from it and seek solace in any alternative to that.

 

[Moonbeam]

That is the disconnect!...

Some say that some virus IS God induced and mainly to kill off the ummmm well... undeserving among us... and collateral damage from that is to be expected, I guess.
What I find amazing is the 'reasonably factual' notion that brains do evolve within the lifetime to facilitate the apparent dictate of the person undergoing this process... So... which causes what. Are these folks indoctrinated as youth to think a certain way and develop the brain condition that furthers that? I think that to be true. And, Global Warming and the like fall into the category that they can't accept... and therefore, 'run' away from it and seek solace in any alternative to that.

I do not know. I make conjectures that I would test if I had a research center with the proper funding. I believe I am in possession of certain facts unknown to most people that gives me potential insight into this problem.

I have mentioned, I think, what some neuroscientists have suggested, what I might describe as a jack rabbit and a chess player. A jack rabbit may see a shadow and be down a hole while the chess player is in a meteor crater, or the jack rabbit may have run into the mouth of a lion. Some times instant reactions caused by fear result in survival and sometimes winning takes place on the chess board to the long ranged strategic thinker, so nature preserves both sets of genes that foster these.

I believe somewhat differently. I would say it is within the genetic makeup of people that they can function either strategically or instantly and do so at different times, but that patterns or pathways in the brain via use can become preferred. Since I believe that put downs are the cause of human self hate and mental illness, what we both learn to fear and what makes us lonely and needy for love, I believe that the capacity to flee from pain via denial is the only way we survive as children. We can learn to suppress pain via logic and reason, intellectualize ourselves above them, not react strongly to fear because it's painful, or run away and deny. I think of it as the liberal who developers sympathy for the victim, not knowing that victim is himself, or he or she goes down the path of conformity, the Stockholm syndrome, and becomes a fellow put down artist like the parent, also putting himself down without knowing it. In the case of the liberal, however, some empathy survives. With conservatives, empathy is reserved for the torturers who torture as a team. Any assault on their privileged station as overloads of torture is seen as a threat to be feared.

In short, I believe the brains of conservatives are warped in the direction of denial as a means to survive a vicious childhood, with liberals surviving by keeping a part of themselves alive a different way.

But whatever the case, the neuroscience definitely shows that conservatives flee from reality when it scares them. They live in an altered reality they make up to feel safe in. If they act politically to prevent intelligent and reasoned response to threat they can get us all killed.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

CO2 is exhaust and fatal at higher concentrations:
The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are:

250 - 350 ppm – background (normal) outdoor air level
350- 1,000 ppm - typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange.
1,000 – 2,000 ppm - level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000 – 5,000 ppm – level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
>5,000 ppm – this indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases could also be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures.
>40,000 ppm - this level is immediately harmful due to oxygen deprivation.

So when are scientists forecasting that the atmospheric CO2 levels will reach even 1000 ppm? Or is the list above yet another meaningless fear-mongering tactic?

 

[piasabird]

What is your plan to solve all of our Environmental changes? You dont have a plan and there is no intelligent plan that will magically solve all the problems. Weather wackos have no clues about what is going on. There is just a perceived problem. Feel free to produce a 100 point plan about how you are going to fix the environment without bankrupting our economy.

 

[piasabird]

I would like to put you in a house with drain flies and a fly swatter. You will never kill them all because they just keep coming. In China they dont cover their land fills. In fact China has uncovered garbage dumps that are giant fly breeding grounds. Until they fix that problem they will have flies. Cant Fix Stupid.

 

[Moonbeam]

What is your plan to solve all of our Environmental changes? You dont have a plan and there is no intelligent plan that will magically solve all the problems. Weather wackos have no clues about what is going on. There is just a perceived problem. Feel free to produce a 100 point plan about how you are going to fix the environment without bankrupting our economy.

You couldn't even follow my fly thingi and now you want a 100 point plan? Please!

 

[Jaskalas]

None of the facts matter. It bothers him and he shouldn't be confronted with with stuff that does. Only facts that do not upset an ostrich's asshole, can be allowed to blow around in the air.

Models VS actual temp - helps when your facts aren't set in fantasy. No one ever called for a 16+ year stall in global temperature. It was all doomsday this, doomsday that.

Get the science right, account for natural factors, and then discuss it.

 

[Jaskalas]

CO2 is exhaust and fatal at higher concentrations:
The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are:
...

So you admit defeat on temperature and want to scare us with thousands of PPM. News flash for you, CO2 was 1-2 thousand PPM when dinos walked the earth. Normal people, if not subjected to fear mongering, will never give a !@#$. Nor should they.

Yes, this planet WILL reach ~2k PPM, and unless you launch a nuclear strike on developing nations, you're not stopping it. The President is not stopping it. What do you intend to do about it, carbon tax on Americans?

The real threat to humanity is the cost of living, lack of clean air, food, water. Cheap electricity helps many of us avoid such issues. That means CO2 production. Unless you want to be a threat to those who are vulnerable, you'll stand out of their way and let them have cheap electricity.

 

[monovillage]

Originally Posted by Paratus View Post
CO2 is exhaust and fatal at higher concentrations:
The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are:
...

So you admit defeat on temperature and want to scare us with thousands of PPM. News flash for you, CO2 was 1-2 thousand PPM when dinos walked the earth. Normal people, if not subjected to fear mongering, will never give a !@#$. Nor should they.

Yes, this planet WILL reach ~2k PPM, and unless you launch a nuclear strike on developing nations, you're not stopping it. The President is not stopping it. What do you intend to do about it, carbon tax on Americans?

The real threat to humanity is the cost of living, lack of clean air, food, water. Cheap electricity helps many of us avoid such issues. That means CO2 production. Unless you want to be a threat to those who are vulnerable, you'll stand out of their way and let them have cheap electricity.

But, but, but you don't understand!! Water is wet and fatal in higher concentrations if you drink enough of it or stick you damn head under it for long enough!! Just listen to Parrotboy!

 

[Lizardman]

So you admit defeat on temperature and want to scare us with thousands of PPM. News flash for you, CO2 was 1-2 thousand PPM when dinos walked the earth. Normal people, if not subjected to fear mongering, will never give a !@#$. Nor should they.

Yes, this planet WILL reach ~2k PPM, and unless you launch a nuclear strike on developing nations, you're not stopping it. The President is not stopping it. What do you intend to do about it, carbon tax on Americans?

The real threat to humanity is the cost of living, lack of clean air, food, water. Cheap electricity helps many of us avoid such issues. That means CO2 production. Unless you want to be a threat to those who are vulnerable, you'll stand out of their way and let them have cheap electricity.

You misstate the facts here. Read quote below and take note of how the lower CO2 levels allowed the earth the become what it is like today. Comprehension is key here!


"The Triassic Period: The CO2 levels at the beginning of the period were the highest in over 350 million years, indicating a hot climate worldwide. But these levels would drop off precipitously by the middle of the period, nearing modern-day levels and cooling the climate. The dropping CO2 levels would also result in cooler ocean temperatures enabling the marine creatures to slowly regain a foothold in once-deserted regions."

http://eonsepochsetc.com/Mesozoic/Triassic/Tri_Environment/environment.html

If you don't like that source then there are several others that present the same data.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You misstate the facts here. Read quote below and take note of how the lower CO2 levels allowed the earth the become what it is like today. Comprehension is key here!


"The Triassic Period: The CO2 levels at the beginning of the period were the highest in over 350 million years, indicating a hot climate worldwide. But these levels would drop off precipitously by the middle of the period, nearing modern-day levels and cooling the climate. The dropping CO2 levels would also result in cooler ocean temperatures enabling the marine creatures to slowly regain a foothold in once-deserted regions."

http://eonsepochsetc.com/Mesozoic/Triassic/Tri_Environment/environment.html

If you don't like that source then there are several others that present the same data.

You are cherry picking data. From your own link:

http://eonsepochsetc.com/Mesozoic/Cretaceous/cretaceous_home.html

Dinosaurs are the main attraction for many of us and the Cretaceous was their heyday. The large carnivores such as Tyrannosaurus Rex and Spinosaurus were thundering about the land, hunting Triceratops and Iguanodons. Flying through the Cretaceous skies were gigantic Pterosaurs and the small proto-birds, descendants of Archaeopteryx. Though many Pterosaurs died out in the Jurassic Extinction, those that were left grew to tremendous size.

There were amazing developments in the mammal world as placental mammals appeared, able to produce their young without using the oh-so-prosaic egg-laying method. Now it was all live – that is, the young were now born alive into the Jurassic world, skipping the egg stage altogether. Adding to the mix were the marsupials which carried their young in pouches until they were developed enough to exist on their own. Monotremes were also present; these were mammals which continued to lay eggs as does the modern platypus.

...

Carbon Dioxide levels also increased and reached levels three times what they are today.

 

[Lizardman]

Comprehension is key here!

We don't live in a similar climate to what was around back then. And we don't really want to...

 

[JimKiler]

Is he going to nuke China? Then you won't make any difference. Even if you removed the United States from the equation, CO2 will continue to rise. The rest of the planet will continue economic development even if we will not.

You can not stop human progress, and for this century that means CO2 emissions.

Agreed, we the people of the USA can do all we want to stop global warming but unless we can counter all the effects of other nations like China, it will do no good. We have a budget crisis that will mean we cannot pay to fix the world's environment.

OP when will the flooding and such start?

 

[raildogg]

Agreed, we the people of the USA can do all we want to stop global warming but unless we can counter all the effects of other nations like China, it will do no good. We have a budget crisis that will mean we cannot pay to fix the world's environment.

OP when will the flooding and such start?

So the same people that were one of the first ones to industrialize on a massive scale and destroy so many resources are now going to stop global warming? Now we should sit back while others imitate us and continue with their own industrialization? I guess that's better than attacking them

The word global warming is simply not enough. When we live against nature rather than with nature, the earth will not be stable. We are constantly looking for ways to exploit the earth so I doubt any kind of initiative from anywhere will work. You have to completely change the way people look at the world and live their lives. Until then, lets enjoy our technology and globalization and watch what happens to the earth.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Comprehension is key here!

We don't live in a similar climate to what was around back then. And we don't really want to...

Yes, comprehension is definitely key here.

You were responding to a statement about CO2 levels when dinosaurs walked the earth and claimed a drop in CO2 levels in the Triasssic made the Earth what it is today. I pointed out that was not really the case since in reality those levels have been up and down significantly over that time through natural processes.

Also, it points out to the alarmists who hysterically claim we are 'destroying the Earth' that the Earth will get along just fine with higher CO levels.

 

[IGBT]

LOL.

It is science and modernism along with a desire to grow economically that is behind the destruction of the world. Now you want that same science to fix it? How can it when everyone wants to grow economically? The destruction has just started.

typical alarmist rhetoric from a dyed in the wool eco-KOOK / eco-thiest back bencher in full support of the liberal structured deception of cooling / warming / sky is falling / climate change.