Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3f0964-4159-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html

To many observers on the left, the initial embrace of Seth Rich conspiracy theories by conservative media figures was merely a confirmation of the right’s deformed soul. But for those of us who remember that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity were once relatively mainstream Reaganites, their extended vacation in the fever swamps is even more disturbing. If once you knew better, the indictment is deeper.

The cruel exploitation of the memory of Rich, a Democratic National Committee staffer who was shot dead last summer, was horrifying and clarifying. The Hannity right, without evidence, accused Rich rather than the Russians of leaking damaging DNC emails. In doing so, it has proved its willingness to credit anything — no matter how obviously deceptive or toxic — to defend President Trump and harm his opponents. Even if it means becoming a megaphone for Russian influence.

The basic, human questions are simple. How could conservative media figures not have felt — felt in their hearts and bones — the God-awful ickiness of it? How did the genes of generosity and simple humanity get turned off? Is this insensibility the risk of prolonged exposure to our radioactive political culture? If so, all of us should stand back a moment and tend to the health of our revulsion.

But this failure of decency is also politically symbolic. Who is the politician who legitimized conspiracy thinking at the highest level? Who raised the possibility that Ted Cruz’s father might have been involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy? Who hinted that Hillary Clinton might have been involved in the death of Vince Foster, or that unnamed liberals might have killed Justice Antonin Scalia? Who not only questioned President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, but raised the prospect of the murder of a Hawaiian state official in a coverup? “How amazing,” Trump tweeted in 2013, “the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s ‘birth certificate’ died in plane crash today. All others lived.”

We have a president charged with maintaining public health who asserts that the vaccination schedule is a dangerous scam of greedy doctors. We have a president charged with representing all Americans who has falsely accused thousands of Muslims of celebrating in the streets following the 9/11 attacks.


In this mental environment, alleging a Rich-related conspiracy was predictable. This is a concrete example of the mainstreaming of destructive craziness.

Those conservatives who believe that the confirmation of Justice Neil M. Gorsuch is sufficient justification for the Trump presidency are ignoring Trump’s psychic and moral destruction of the conservative movement and the Republican Party. Clinton, with a small number of changed votes, would have defeated Republicans. But Trump is doing a kind of harm beyond anything Clinton could have done. He is changing the party’s most basic moral and political orientations. He is shaping conservatism in his image and ensuring an eventual defeat more complete, and an eventual exile more prolonged, than Democrats could have dreamed.

The conservative mind, in some very visible cases, has become diseased. The movement has been seized by a kind of discrediting madness, in which conspiracy delusions figure prominently. Institutions and individuals that once served an important ideological role, providing a balance to media bias, are discrediting themselves in crucial ways. With the blessings of a president, they have abandoned the normal constraints of reason and compassion. They have allowed political polarization to reach their hearts, and harden them. They have allowed polarization to dominate their minds, and empty them.

Conspiracy theories often involve a kind of dehumanization. Human tragedy is made secondary — something to be exploited rather than mourned. The narrative of conspiracy takes precedence over the meaning of a life and the suffering of a family. A human being is made into an ideological prop and used on someone else’s stage. As the Rich family has attested, the pain inflicted is quite real.

A conspiratorial approach to politics is fully consistent with other forms of dehumanization — of migrants, refugees and “the other” more generally. Men and women are reduced to types and presented as threats. They also become props in an ideological drama. They are presented as representatives of a plot involving invasion and infiltration, rather than being viewed as individuals seeking opportunity or fleeing oppression and violence. This also involves callousness, cruelty and conspiracy thinking.

In Trump’s political world, this project of dehumanization is far along. The future of conservatism now depends on its capacity for revulsion. And it is not at all clear whether this capacity still exists.[/qupte]

Alright, alright, alright.
 
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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
This is also backed up by their willingness to applaud the assault of a member of the press, or simply disbelieve it in spite of the Fox News reporters that confirmed Jacobs's version of events.

The pervasive evil is out there and has major media outlets to support it.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,562
7,618
136
You are witness to tribalism. I suspect its hyperactivity these past 13 some-odd years involves the internet and humanity's inability to process the partisanship emanating from it. Our brains have turned to mush via social media and 24/7 news channels.

Think of it as... the US has gone from ATOT, and devolved into P&N from too much exposure.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,668
7,165
136
IMO, the average conservative feels their existence is now under perilous threat, but not from their own leaders who consort with the Russians, or from their leaders taking away their health care insurance, taking away their Social Security, taking away their Medicare/Medicaid, taking away their women's right to choose how they care for their own bodies, taking away their educational opportunities, taking away their jobs and shipping them overseas.

Oh no,no, no. It's all about how "their" president is being unfairly persecuted by the evil liberal media, or the terrorists hiding under their beds, or the fake news about everything that incontrovertibly proves their leaders are scumbag crooks, or the leaks that prove their leaders are being conspired against, or the illegal immigrants and scary minorities taking their jobs away from them.

These threats were made to seem "real" to them by their leaders and once that was done, these same leaders then presented themselves to be the solution to the same threats they cooked up at GOP Central. How clever.

So here we have the Repubs being in total of control of the gov't, pressing on with their plans to deny millions of their own constituents health care insurance, taking away the protections their constituents get from the regulatory agencies that were set up to do just that, taking away huge amounts of monies from public education and shoving it all over to the for-profit private schools, etc etc.

And with all of these takeaways being planned and executed by the Repubs in DC, somehow it's still the Dems (of whom are actually fighting the Repubs to keep all of these services and benefits for the working class from being taken away) that are the threat to the Repub's working class' existence and livelihoods.

That takes some really serious mental gymnastics to twist things around that way, but the GOP leadership is doing a fantastic job of it on their constituency.

Good job.....no, great job, GOP.
 

khon

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2010
1,319
124
106
No, it hasn't. The "conservative mind" is the same it's always been, as is the "liberal mind". What has changed are the news sources, which have become a lot more varied, and some of them are complete unreliable. People aren't any more tribalistic now than they used to be.

In an ideal world there would be shared set of facts, and people could then discuss what to do about those facts, which might differ depending on each persons ideology. This used to be the case, because there were only a few news outlets, and they all reported more or less the same things. Now it's no longer the case, with everyone getting a different set of "facts" from different sources, which makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about what to do.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,678
6,195
126
No, it hasn't. The "conservative mind" is the same it's always been, as is the "liberal mind". What has changed are the news sources, which have become a lot more varied, and some of them are complete unreliable. People aren't any more tribalistic now than they used to be.

In an ideal world there would be shared set of facts, and people could then discuss what to do about those facts, which might differ depending on each persons ideology. This used to be the case, because there were only a few news outlets, and they all reported more or less the same things. Now it's no longer the case, with everyone getting a different set of "facts" from different sources, which makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about what to do.
Of course this can't be right because there isn't more than one set of facts.` Sadly, if people what to claim that God is telling them to kill people, it's going to fall on the deaf to put such people away. Brainwashed delusionalss who vote for a psychopath for President are just going to have to get used to the fact the threat thus created will provoke a violent reaction. Life will protect itself.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,575
29,269
136
No, it hasn't. The "conservative mind" is the same it's always been, as is the "liberal mind". What has changed are the news sources, which have become a lot more varied, and some of them are complete unreliable. People aren't any more tribalistic now than they used to be.

In an ideal world there would be shared set of facts, and people could then discuss what to do about those facts, which might differ depending on each persons ideology. This used to be the case, because there were only a few news outlets, and they all reported more or less the same things. Now it's no longer the case, with everyone getting a different set of "facts" from different sources, which makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about what to do.
Not really. IMO it is people who increasingly are less able to determine what a fact is.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,678
6,195
126
Of course this can't be right because there isn't more than one set of facts.` Sadly, if people what to claim that God is telling them to kill people, it's going to fall on the deaf to put such people away. Brainwashed delusionalss who vote for a psychopath for President are just going to have to get used to the fact the threat thus created will provoke a violent reaction. Life will protect itself.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I wonder if this is a natural consequence of a creature being overstimulated. Humans evolved to live in a very different reality where community, real contact with real people, created boundries most understood. Just living was our evolutionary mandate and knowledge changed the way we lived, but we were still villages, towns and cities with occasional news from far away places, maybe even a hundred miles or more. Then having learned about the "big world" we went back to socializing and working.

Now it's a horn blaring in our ears with Twitter and Facebook and whatever, the "anti-social networks" as I've heard them described. In all the noise I can easily see how dysfunctional tribes form, like looking for like in an overwhelming world.

Feels- yes feels. It feels like some critical mass is being reached, some event coming but exactly what I'm not sure. Could it be that the social order might be replaced by a virtual one?
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,562
7,618
136
I wonder if this is a natural consequence of a creature being overstimulated.
Think about 2016 and the daily tweeting of fresh "outrages". It has not stopped.

Tribalism means that the nature and frequency of such contact makes a huge impact on the primitive reaction people have to this constant bombardment of negative news. They tune it out, it no longer exists... but when it does it is "the enemy", the "others". It is to be combated if even acknowledged.

The more tweets that storm the gates... the bigger the partisan wall becomes. The more polarized and more segregated the two populations become. And this constant, visceral, otherness starts to turn into action and reaction. Physical confrontation over political engagement. Today's communication in effect causes a natural devolution of the social order as we return to tribes wielding clubs.

Combating this mental illness, the natural human condition of tribalism, will be a great challenge of our time.
 
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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,688
1,222
136
The less a person knows the more believable conservative think is to them. Add the complete stupidity of smart liberals and their weird non-stupid think can be to conservatives. Yep, it is no wonder why the mind is diseased.

Learning? That requires a book! While, also requiring some internal monologue which might or might not harm my preconceived notions. To much effort, the people I know now are smarter than the people I might know later or will never meet.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
By definition, conservative (which means holding on to old outdated ideas and resisting progress) = stupid.

Can't agree. We have a Constitution which prohibits government from taking away your right of free speech and more. These are old ideas that some think are outdated and to value them is resisting progress. That is what proper Conservatism should represent, but alas that is not the case. But the idea that some things should not be "conserved"? No.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Can't agree. We have a Constitution which prohibits government from taking away your right of free speech and more. These are old ideas that some think are outdated and to value them is resisting progress. That is what proper Conservatism should represent, but alas that is not the case. But the idea that some things should not be "conserved"? No.
That's a matter of perspective. Free speech is a recent development in the course of human history.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
That's a matter of perspective. Free speech is a recent development in the course of human history.

Yes it is and the powerful used the force of government to silence people because their opinion mattered but it's been around our entire history as a nation. If it's expedient why not ignore those old concepts? Should we do that? I say no.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Yes it is and the powerful used the force of government to silence people because their opinion mattered but it's been around our entire history as a nation. If it's expedient why not ignore those old concepts? Should we do that? I say no.
I also say no. I want reflection and experimentation. Scientific methodology.

But I want those new ideas constantly coming into the discussion. Progress is not the goal, just the means.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
When your crazy ex calls you crazy





The day is young, and already 90 posts.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,577
12,689
146
By definition, conservative (which means holding on to old outdated ideas and resisting progress) = stupid.
Ideas themselves are never stupid. They can be wrong, misguided, and damaging, but stupid only enters the equation when you follow through with an idea that's going to do more bad than good (without a damned good reason). Note that 'progress' is also in the eye of the beholder, some progress is equally wrong, misguided, and damaging, and it can be equally stupid to follow through with it.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
By definition, conservative (which means holding on to old outdated ideas and resisting progress) = stupid.

The body count of your "progress" says different, or do you not "history"
even the dead children at Ariana Grande concerts in the last week are the result of your "progress".
Recklessly Interfering with mechanisms which are the foundations of our societies they do not really understand because of their utopian dreams. The consequences haven't been theoretical for some time now, and yet the "progressives" double down. Their ideas are rendered outdated by the test of the real world, and the body count is only ever going to grow because of the damage they have done based on their naivety.

The only thing the left is resisting at this point is reality.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,793
8,356
136
I don't label it a "conservative" problem. I label it a GOP problem. They've been largely taken over by a form of political view that caters to the brain dead type of voter that thinks the recent MT candidate body slamming a reporter is a good thing. There are still legitimate conservatives in the GOP, but they need to actually show some backbone and say enough is enough. When the party of Reagan is more likely to side with Putin over [insert liberal here], you have a serious fucking problem.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Can't agree. We have a Constitution which prohibits government from taking away your right of free speech and more. These are old ideas that some think are outdated and to value them is resisting progress. That is what proper Conservatism should represent, but alas that is not the case. But the idea that some things should not be "conserved"? No.

The constitution was written to be revisable, which is obvious enough given the supposedly everlasting idea came in the form of a revision.

Ideas themselves are never stupid. They can be wrong, misguided, and damaging, but stupid only enters the equation when you follow through with an idea that's going to do more bad than good (without a damned good reason). Note that 'progress' is also in the eye of the beholder, some progress is equally wrong, misguided, and damaging, and it can be equally stupid to follow through with it.

An idea termed stupid largely means those who believe it tend to be stupid. I don't think there's much controversy that conservatives are hardly the best and brightest, even according to themselves.
 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,611
3,456
136
The constitution was written to be revisable, which is obvious enough given the supposedly everlasting idea came in the form of a revision.



An idea termed stupid largely means those who believe it tend to be stupid. I don't think there's much controversy that conservatives are hardly the best and brightest, even according to themselves.

Because education is for liberals and communists.
 
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