The War On Drugs A Failure

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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
they had to put up needle bins in public toilets here in Demark because the floors used to be covered in needles, for a long time they used to stop "fixerum" (somewhere the junkies can go to shoot up, out of the way and in a clean, safe environment) but if I remember it correctly they recently allowed some pilot projects.

Places like Canada have Insight, and I believe Switzerland's government is trying a heroin program that helps get people addicted back into society, by helping them not have to worry about the drug side of their problem, while getting them counseling at the same time. But from what I have seen it isn't wide spread enough to make a real difference, but if it continues to be successful, hopefully the idea will spread to other places where it is needed.

It really is a sad state of affairs that our world treats this as more of a criminal issue than the health issue that it is.

Thats the second phase. After first trying to avoid getting people into that situation. Then you have to try get people out of it instead of simply throw them in jail.

But again, who is paying? It aint the junkies.

Weed can be good for medical use. But for the regular it just produce people who never becomes anything really.

I am sure Broheim can read this:
http://videnskab.dk/krop-sundhed/hash-giver-varige-skader-i-hjernen
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
32.5% is a majority? And average in europe is 23,7%.

a third admitted to having commited a crime, no I don't have solid numbers that prove that 51% have tried weed, but if you're going to sit there and act like the point I was trying to make hasn't been proven then we really have nothing further to discuss.

maybe you should try looking up the word hyperbole...
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Thats the second phase. After first trying to avoid getting people into that situation. Then you have to try get people out of it instead of simply throw them in jail.

But again, who is paying? It aint the junkies.

If the junkies can stay in society, or be brought back into, then they can contribute too. Of course if they are turned away by society, then 100% they won't be paying, or part of it.

But for the regular it just produce people who never becomes anything really.

Except that it doesn't. There are PLENTY of professionals that use it recreationally.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,590
29,297
136
What if someone in my family wants to try drugs because its so easily accessible and dies from an OD?
This is the failure of your argument right here. Even though drugs are illegal they are still easy to obtain. So now you have all the extra problems that come with making them illegal and people can still get them. You have gained nothing while making things demonstrably worse for everyone.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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While they would probably do a better job, the fact is that taxpayers pay it anyway, this way it is just directly to the source instead of through state funded care, hospital visits and stay, locked up in jail, etc ...

But people should not be jailed for drug charges, even the people in jail now for ONLY the drug charges should not be in there.

Healthcare should be paid for by the individual, no government/publicly funded, if they want to do drugs then let them but because they take a risk then they must face the consequences. Fair is fair
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
Thats the second phase. After first trying to avoid getting people into that situation. Then you have to try get people out of it instead of simply throw them in jail.

But again, who is paying? It aint the junkies.

Weed can be good for medical use. But for the regular it just produce people who never becomes anything really.

I am sure Broheim can read this:
http://videnskab.dk/krop-sundhed/hash-giver-varige-skader-i-hjernen

actually, if it was legalized and taxed they would, like with cigarettes (smokers pay more in taxes than they cost in healthcare).

the article itself mentions that other research have shown the opposite, and since it was only done on 1000 kiwis I'd hardly call it definitive. Maybe sheepfucking is a factor too :awe:
the study is all about correlation and not causation, so it really doesn't prove anything. one study does not a theory make.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
actually, if it was legalized and taxed they would, like with cigarettes (smokers pay more in taxes than they cost in healthcare).

What about all the productivity loss (They are parttime workers due to all the extra breaks, or 4 weeks of work in a year lost), street cleanup and welfare they need? Just to mention a few. The tax is far from high enough on cigarettes to even remotely offset it.
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
What about all the productivity loss (They are parttime workers due to all the extra breaks, or 4 weeks of work in a year lost), street cleanup and welfare they need? Just to mention a few. The tax is far from high enough on cigarettes to even remotely offset it.

productivity cannot be measured by hours worked, street cleanup happens regardless of cigarette butts and what kind of welfare does a smoker receive that a non-smoker does not?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
productivity cannot be measured by hours worked, street cleanup happens regardless of cigarette butts and what kind of welfare does a smoker receive that a non-smoker does not?

Its about the time when sick and you get welfare back from it. Either your place of employment or because you are too sick to work. We for example got 430000 with KOL and 80% of those are smokers.

A 25 year old smoker can see forward to around 13½ years of sickness.
 
Last edited:
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
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Its about the time when sick and you get welfare back from it. Either your place of employment or because you are too sick to work. We for example got 430000 with KOL and 80% of those are smokers.
I recognize every word you wrote, but the order you've put them in makes no sense.
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
Its about the time when sick and you get welfare back from it. Either your place of employment or because you are too sick to work. We for example got 430000 with KOL and 80% of those are smokers.

A 25 year old smoker can see forward to around 13½ years of sickness.

those 13½ years you are referring to are the last 13½ years of a smoker's life and even then it's not 13 years of constant sickness, it's not an accumulation of time you are sick over your life, most of these years you aren't even working. also, if you quit before you turn 30 then long term health effects are on average minor.
treatment of smoking related illnesses cost less than half of what taxes bring in (3.6 vs 7.5 billion, numbers according to DSI).
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
those 13½ years you are referring to are the last 13½ years of a smoker's life and even then it's not 13 years of constant sickness, it's not an accumulation of time you are sick over your life, most of these years you aren't even working. also, if you quit before you turn 30 then long term health effects are on average minor.
treatment of smoking related illnesses cost less than half of what taxes bring in (3.6 vs 7.5 billion, numbers according to DSI).

3.6B must be said to be very optimistic.
Rygning koster årligt 149.000 hospitalsindlæggelser og giver sundhedsvæsnet udgifter for 3,9 milliarder kroner. Samtidig forårsager rygning 2,8 millioner ekstra sygedage om året. Det samfundsøkonomiske tab er afhængigt af opgørelsen mellem 3,5 og 20,8 milliarder kroner årligt. Det fremgår af et svar fra sundhedsminister Bertel Haarder (V) til Folketingets Sundhedsudvalg. Oveni kommer en række andre udgifter til bl.a. praktiserende læger.

And thats still without all the costs. like the subsidizing of medicine, doctors, reduced work time due to smoking breaks and so on.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,686
6,195
126
The best solution to the drug problem is education, not legalizing or baning drugs. The job of society should be to create healthy sane productive people who are that way because they are conscious of what it means to be a human being. In a society where there is no meaning to life, where young people have no purpose or future, where vicious competition is the word of the day, drugs will always be chosen as a way out of misery that leads to more of it. The obvious fact that a war of drugs is psychotic and leads to a police state, and that free availability in a mental asylum leads to the death of the inmates can only be resolved at a higher level of understanding. Neither one nor the other is the answer. Higher understanding is conscious understanding built of knowledge and wisdom. We want freedom, but we want the freedom that a healthy mind would chose, not the freedom mental illness wants to pursue.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
We would be doing ourselves, and central america a huge favor if we reformed our drug laws.

The Portugal route seems to be a good one. Legalize everything in amounts for personal use, redirect spending on jailing addicts to inpatient treatment facilities and harm reduction programs.

I would go one step further and legalize marijuana entirely, though. It is clear that it is less harmful than alcohol and too easy to produce. We could also dramatically reduce violent crime surrounding marijuana trafficking in the south and across the border.
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
3.6B must be said to be very optimistic.


And thats still without all the costs. like the subsidizing of medicine, doctors, reduced work time due to smoking breaks and so on.

so going by that messed up piece of math I could either be right or wrong...
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,302
2,097
126
If we manange to jail at least one pothead or meth zombie today (and I suspect several will be), then the "war" has been quite successful. If we manage to bust at least one drug dealer today and confiscate his home, cars and bling, then we got back more than we put in.

WIN-WIN!
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
If we manange to jail at least one pothead or meth zombie today (and I suspect several will be), then the "war" has been quite successful. If we manage to bust at least one drug dealer today and confiscate his home, cars and bling, then we got back more than we put in.

WIN-WIN!

This post is so full of fail.
 
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